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Compliance Inspection
- Thread starter Garys
- Start date
Oh theres absolutly a crapload of C&R's from guys who are on NES but how about outside of NES. Those people who do not browse the gun boards probably have next to no knowledge that it even exists let alone have one.
OK, thanks for that data point. I guess I'll take off the tin foil hat. For now.
kevin9
NES Member
Looks like another "Thank you, GW Bush" is in order....![[hmmm]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/009.gif "Hmm [hmmm]")
True, but
with my addition. From what I read there are at least one or two Senators who will not consent to his nomination, period.
So, what we know right now is that 5 of the members here have been called for checks, and a couple have already completed theirs.
We have a lot of C&R holders here (I would guess over a hundred) so either they're just starting a full check of every licensee, or they're just taking a sampling of them.
We have a lot of C&R holders here (I would guess over a hundred) so either they're just starting a full check of every licensee, or they're just taking a sampling of them.
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I had my inspection this afternoon. It took about a minute for the inspector to check the entries in my "bound book" and verify the serial numbers of the firearms, then it was question time. The questions were as follows (not necessarily in order):
- do you have any large dogs?
- do you have an alarm system?
- where are the firearms stored? When I answered "in a safe in the basement", the next question was:
- is there access to the basement other than from inside the house?
- do you have firearms other than the C&R firearms?
- do you have a massachusetts firearms license?
- do you have any other firearms licenses such as non resident permits?
- does anyone else in the house have access to or have anything to do with keeping the paperwork for the C&R license?
Then she handed me a 2 page form listing various things such as definitions and requirements that she went over with me one by one checking off each item on her copy. Many items only applied to type 01 FFL's and did not need to be discussed. When all the applicable items had been discussed, she had me sign and date the form which she had also signed and dated and signed my copy of this form and asked if I had any questions. Lastly, she gave me her business card and a list of departments and phone numbers in the ATF and that was it. She did not ask to see the storage area or any other firearms nor did she ask any questions about ammunition.
Throughout the process, she was friendly and professional and I had no problems with it.
- do you have any large dogs?
- do you have an alarm system?
- where are the firearms stored? When I answered "in a safe in the basement", the next question was:
- is there access to the basement other than from inside the house?
- do you have firearms other than the C&R firearms?
- do you have a massachusetts firearms license?
- do you have any other firearms licenses such as non resident permits?
- does anyone else in the house have access to or have anything to do with keeping the paperwork for the C&R license?
Then she handed me a 2 page form listing various things such as definitions and requirements that she went over with me one by one checking off each item on her copy. Many items only applied to type 01 FFL's and did not need to be discussed. When all the applicable items had been discussed, she had me sign and date the form which she had also signed and dated and signed my copy of this form and asked if I had any questions. Lastly, she gave me her business card and a list of departments and phone numbers in the ATF and that was it. She did not ask to see the storage area or any other firearms nor did she ask any questions about ammunition.
Throughout the process, she was friendly and professional and I had no problems with it.
I've got a major problem with the way these inspections have been described. The 'list of questions' sounds like a fishing expedition for all kind of information that is not relevant to your C&R license, nor is authorized by federal law. I would have to resist very hard to not get very passive aggressive if asked those kinds of questions.
Course the question of the day is... has anyone bothered to, well, ask why
they're asking those questions? I realize, of course, the temptation to
smile and not and get the inspection out of the way ASAP.
-Mike
they're asking those questions? I realize, of course, the temptation to
smile and not and get the inspection out of the way ASAP.
-Mike
I received my renewal notice in the mail yesterday. I almost threw it away because the envelope was plain blue and unmarked and looked like one of those marketing things that say "open me now." The only reason I opened it was because I noticed it was mailed first class.
Glad I did.
I sent it back today. It will probably trigger an audit, but that's OK. I knew what I was getting into and besides I have nothing to hide.
Having said that, some people have expressed concern about some of the questions asked during the audit. I think it was Jimconway on the training techniques forum who posted a list of all the DEA firearm discharges during the calendar year. I swear I think every other one involved one or more pit bulls attacking the agents.
While I can understand them asking that question (about having animals), once again, it is directed at the wrong people, which is the whole problem with gun control laws. Anyway, at least now I understand why it is asked.
The best answer I can come up with to that question anyway is that I do have several hundred million no-see-ums in June.![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
Glad I did.
I sent it back today. It will probably trigger an audit, but that's OK. I knew what I was getting into and besides I have nothing to hide.
Having said that, some people have expressed concern about some of the questions asked during the audit. I think it was Jimconway on the training techniques forum who posted a list of all the DEA firearm discharges during the calendar year. I swear I think every other one involved one or more pit bulls attacking the agents.
While I can understand them asking that question (about having animals), once again, it is directed at the wrong people, which is the whole problem with gun control laws. Anyway, at least now I understand why it is asked.
The best answer I can come up with to that question anyway is that I do have several hundred million no-see-ums in June.
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Garys
NES Member
I think I had the same reaction. Speaking of which, my new license came yesterday.
If it triggers an audit, the inspectors don't seem to know it. At least the one that did my inspection told me that she had no information about my renewal.
Having said that, some people have expressed concern about some of the questions asked during the audit. I think it was Jimconway on the training techniques forum who posted a list of all the DEA firearm discharges during the calendar year. I swear I think every other one involved one or more pit bulls attacking the agents.
While I can understand them asking that question (about having animals), once again, it is directed at the wrong people, which is the whole problem with gun control laws. Anyway, at least now I understand why it is asked.
The best answer I can come up with to that question anyway is that I do have several hundred million no-see-ums in June.
She mentioned dog attacks when she asked me. You're right about the wrong people being asked, but then again the people that they SHOULD be asking don't have licenses of any type. Plus they would lie anyway.
Just to be clear, I wasn't exactly "happy" answering most of those questions, but, being the honest, law-abiding person that I am and having nothing to hide, I saw little point in coming across as suspicious, angry or hostile.
I'm sure that if I had come across that way, there would be a little note about that in her final report. She did say that there was a good chance I would never be checked again. We'll just have to wait and see.
Believe me, I understand. The choice is between compliance, which would urk me badly but not cause me any real trouble, or confrontation which could cause problems for me. I don't begrudge your decision, and would probably choose the same way. But, still, I would definitely have to resist my impulse to tell them to go f' themselves.
Well had my compliance inspection this evening... The ATF agent was very pleasant and did not ask me any of the questions from earlier posts I've read. He asked if I have my FFL lic and my LTC. He reviewed my MA and NH license and handed them back to me. He was surprise that Cambridge handed out an LTC A because they are hard to come by in Cambridge. I have not purchased any relics yet, so he looked at an empty book. We then review a checklist of things I should know as well as a sheet with helpful numbers and sites. He did mention that BATF can request to have a compliance inspection every 12-mo, but most likely, I will not hear from them for another 10 years. Asked if I had any questions, informed me that I could call or email him or the office, and he or someone would get back to me.... I am glad it is over....
Mine went without a hitch. Checked my bound book and firearms (the inspector even admired my M1 Garand and M1 carbine ![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
).
The guy didn't ask me any of the questions posted by massgun. He really didn't even ask me any questions at all, let alone intrusive ones.
Same here.
The Inspector I had was courteous, professional and pleasant speaking with... no flash bangs, guns drawn, black balaclava, etc.
).The guy didn't ask me any of the questions posted by massgun. He really didn't even ask me any questions at all, let alone intrusive ones.
Same here.
The Inspector I had was courteous, professional and pleasant speaking with... no flash bangs, guns drawn, black balaclava, etc.
Did anyone get asked for receipts from the sellers?
Can anyone answer this?
If I get audited, I definitely will ask why all the dumb questions.
Can anyone answer this?
If I get audited, I definitely will ask why all the dumb questions.
Its a catch 22. Do you ask them why they are asking that question and then start to worry that you've been flagged on some list due to your answer? Do you bend over and try to lessen the details of your answers so that you are in line with the question but not divulging information that really is no ones concern other than your own?
I think the questioning is a bit unfair considering the justified level of paranoia that most gun owners have. You'd expect them to be a bit more subtle. Even so the questions really make no sense other than a probe for later investigation or confiscation. I'm not a tin foil guy either.
Yes, you do.
To answer a couple of other questions asked here and in another thread...
There's roughly 50 C&R license holders in MA. Seems like a small amount to me, unless the investigator misunderstood my question and there's 50 C&R licensees in his jurisdiction/assigned area.
C&R firearms not acquired via ones C&R license do not have to be entered in the bound book... but, there's nothing wrong with doing so (I have mine entered just as a CYA move)
We have received conflicting answers to this question from ATF, but because we have the answer in writing from them that, yes, all C&R firearms acquired while you have a C&R license do have to be recorded regardless of whether you used your C&R license to acquire them, I would suggest that it would be unwise not to do so.
Ok, What if I had a firearm that reached the 50yo mark, Would it then need to be added on its birthday??
Not unless you acquired the gun while you had a C&R license. You would, however, definitely have to log in out (without ever logging it in
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
) of your bound book if you went to dispose of it once it obtained C&R status.It's clear from the various communication we have had with ATF about the issue, that nobody there has bothered to actually sit down and figure out the implications of these border cases.
Its like Mass Laws!
At least with federal issues we can ask the federal government questions and actually receive answers. Who the heck in MA government is going to answer our questions on MA law?
![[angry]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/008.gif "Angry [angry]")
Garys
NES Member
I was not asked for the receipts, but I did provide them. Which worked in my favor due to a clerical error on my part. She saw that everything was correct, I just put something in the wrong column. Without showing her the receipts, it would likely have been tougher.
The inspection includes C&R weapons only, but she did look at them to verify the importer name and the serial number.
#1, I think we have more than 50 on NES alone.
#2, You're wrong on the second point. Anything C&R eligible acquired while you are licensed must be recorded.
Its like Mass Laws!
Except for that BATFE answers have actual legal standing.
Do they take all the info with them? Or just check it to make sure everything is properly filled in?
To add a clerical question as well......You mentioned adding the Importer. In the bound book sheet I have it asks to record "Manuf or Importer" I have purchased a couple Mosins since I last posted...I filed out the Manuf as Mosin Nagant....I did not fill out the importer name....Should I have included this as well??
Garys
NES Member
I did because Mosin Nagant is the model name, not the manufacturer. For example, I put in SMLE/CAI.
