Compliance Inspection

[Pilgrim]

If anything, I've found the exact opposite.

I've tried to buy a S&W M&P 1905 .38 that was 102 years old at the time as a C&R purchase.

The dealer would NOT sell it to me aas a C&R gun. It wasn't explicitly on the list.

I bought the gun the same way I would a modern, wonder 9 semi-auto, pistol permit, paperwork, NICS check... the whole ball of wax.

That has been my experience several times.

It's amazing that so many people don't realize that anything over 50 years old qualifies, especially dealers.....who should.

 

[jdubois]

It's amazing that so many people don't realize that anything over 50 years old qualifies, especially dealers.....who should.

Dealers who don't normally deal in C&R guns are usually pretty clueless. They rarely see C&R FFLs and when they do, they've little idea what to do with them. I've encountered this several times. The best one admitted he didn't know anything about it, and allowed me to show him the relevant information in the FFL Reference guide. The worst one just arrogantly fed me a load of BS from on high until I walked out.

 

[gws1063]

Had the inspection today - everything went smoothly. Matched my A&D records against my "inventory", went through a two page list of topics he had to review with me (a quick refresher on regulations with the opportunity to ask questions and get clarification).

The agent was a very nice guy and it was all over quickly and painlessly. Those questions at the end about whether or not we have any animals or any hidden rooms in the house left me a bit queasy, though.

-Gary

 

[glockguy17]

Those questions at the end about whether or not we have any animals or any hidden rooms in the house left me a bit queasy, though.

-Gary

This part is making me extremely nervous. What possible reason would they have to ask this question other than for future refrence than for a raid type seizure.

I could explain the locked up/large dogs as a type of security system or deterrent to potential theives but what is with the hidden room thing.....

 

[vellnueve]

Maybe someone should write BATFE in Washington and ask what the purpose of those questions are...

 

[glockguy17]

Did your inspector ask you the hidden room question? Im wondering if these are standardized questions or not.

Did she write down your answers?

Two questions to feed the paranoid. One, if we had any pets, like big dobermans. Two, if everything is locked up when not being used. I suppose that could be intel for a midnight raid, but actually all they'd have to do is ring the doorbell and I'd let them in.

 

[Fooped]

I'm glad that the inspection went "well" for those inspected thus far, but this sure makes me glad I don't (and won't) have a C+R license.

 

[jdubois]

Those questions at the end about whether or not we have any animals or any hidden rooms in the house left me a bit queasy, though.

"There are no animals or hidden rooms involved in my collection activities under my C&R license. Next question?"

 

[theGringo]

Those questions at the end about whether or not we have any animals or any hidden rooms in the house left me a bit queasy, though.

Be paranoid. Imagine that you, as a C&R license holder, are now in the crosshairs as a certified gun nut. Imagine the worst possible reason why FedGov would be curious about these things, and know that your worst fears are real.

Oh. And have a nice day.

 

[LoginName]

Sounds like they're doing a sweep of the area... I got a phone call today to meet for a "compliance check".

Doesn't sound like much of a big deal... it's more of a PITA if anything.

The investigator first asked if we could meet at my place... I graciously declined so we're meeting at an undisclosed location.

I have all my paperwork in order, so, no problem there.

Should be interesting.

Anyone have any questions that you want me to ask him about?

 

[JonJ]

The investigator first asked if we could meet at my place... I graciously declined so we're meeting at an undisclosed location.

I've heard that they'll meet at your local PD if you're comfortable with that.
You going to meet at the local watering hole?

 

[LoginName]

I've heard that they'll meet at your local PD if you're comfortable with that.
You going to meet at the local watering hole?

THE GOLDEN BANANA!

 

[tele_mark]

I still find it interesting that so far none of our C&R holding members in a free state has gotten called (or spoken up about) a compliance check. So far it all seems to be happening here in MAss.

 

[LoginName]

I still find it interesting that so far none of our C&R holding members in a free state has gotten called (or spoken up about) a compliance check. So far it all seems to be happening here in MAss.

I guess that shoots a hole in my theory that they're monitoring and targeting NES members.

Maybe they plan on rounding up the free stater's at a later date?

 

[tele_mark]

I guess that shoots a hole in my theory that they're monitoring and targeting NES members.

Maybe they plan on rounding up the free stater's at a later date?

Well, if they were targeting NES members, they'd have to get real identities from screen names, so I don't think that's happening, but I do think this is Massachusetts specific.

 

[glockguy17]

I wonder how many c&rs there are in Mass. There can't be that many, i didn't even know it existed until i came on here. Could they possibly be hitting them all? There seems to be an awful lot of us on here that are getting inspected.

 

[vellnueve]

The investigator first asked if we could meet at my place... I graciously declined so we're meeting at an undisclosed location.

Anyone have any questions that you want me to ask him about?

Did he ask you to bring all your C&R purchases with you?

Well, if they were targeting NES members, they'd have to get real identities from screen names, so I don't think that's happening, but I do think this is Massachusetts specific.

If ATF offices are assigned state by state, that would only make sense.

 

[terraformer]

I still find it interesting that so far none of our C&R holding members in a free state has gotten called (or spoken up about) a compliance check. So far it all seems to be happening here in MAss.

I have been suspicious of this since day one and took heat for it. To be fair though, it could be that we in MA have more C&Rs per capita than in a free state like NH where anything can be had easily.

 

[vellnueve]

I wonder how many c&rs there are in Mass.

I think you'd be surprised how many on this forum have C&Rs.

They could be just doing a set percentage of C&R holders, or they could try to go through all of them before they switch to the next type of FFL.

 

[terraformer]

If ATF offices are assigned state by state, that would only make sense.

http://www.info-central.org/regulatory/orangebook/atfoff.html

Nothing north of Boston.

 

[theGringo]

If ATF offices are assigned state by state, that would only make sense.

I think it's regional. When I was in Worcester, the Hartford, CT Field Office handled my FFL issues.

 

[vellnueve]

Good info...

However, they do have offices in each of the three major MA cities, plus at least one office in each state (smaller ones).

Another point to consider would be that there are many more people on here from MA.

 

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by jdubois
This is not true for an 03 FFL. You do not have to close out your bound book, and you do not have to send it to them. You simply cease your collection activity (and notify ATF if it is before your license expiration date) and you may destroy your bound book if you so desire. If you get a new 03 FFL, you start from scratch.

response by Garys:
I'll go with what the ATF inspector told me, if you don't mind

Forget what the agent said. What jdubois stated is what's in the 'manual' that comes with the license. I'll trust what is written over what is said.


If you meet the agent at a location other than your home, do you have to bring the firearms?

 

[vellnueve]

That's exactly my question. I have no problem providing them with the records, or the inspection on the premises normally. I'm just about to start final examinations and just want to minimize the amount of time wasted if I do get called.

 

[jdubois]

Should be interesting.

Anyone have any questions that you want me to ask him about?

Yeah, ask him if those instructions on the internet for home made pipe bombs really work or not, and if it's better to search for such information from a library rather than your home computer. Be sure the emphasize that your just asking for no reason at all.

Should be interesting indeed

 

[kevin9]

I still find it interesting that so far none of our C&R holding members in a free state has gotten called (or spoken up about) a compliance check. So far it all seems to be happening here in MAss.

Maybe Michael Sullivan is home for the holidays and has some time on his hands.

 

[LoginName]

Well, if they were targeting NES members, they'd have to get real identities from screen names, so I don't think that's happening, but I do think this is Massachusetts specific.

I have been suspicious of this since day one and took heat for it. To be fair though, it could be that we in MA have more C&Rs per capita than in a free state like NH where anything can be had easily.

I don't think that's the case. Maybe with very few exceptions, anything on the C&R roster can be bought/possessed equally by MA and NH residents.

No FFL transfer is required, so that bypasses the pre-98 EOPS requirements.

What probably does make a difference, is that there are very few (if any anymore), C&R vendors that will ship to this state. For that reason, the ATF investigators must be encountering a higher percentage of C&R holders with fewer firearms in their collections when compared to C&R holders in other states.

It's also probably safe to assume that a good number of C&R holders have never used their license to purchase firearms... they obtained it jsut so they could use it for vendor discounts (Brownells, MidWayUSA, etc).

 

[terraformer]

No FFL transfer is required, so that bypasses the pre-98 EOPS requirements.

Including the one about the firearm needing to be in state previously... If you are looking for a 1911A1 and you want the best price, would you rather buy it in an open market or one with the value perverted by artificial scarcity.

 

[Garys]

Did your inspector ask you the hidden room question? Im wondering if these are standardized questions or not.

Did she write down your answers?

I forgot about the hidden room question. Yes, she asked. Of course if I had a hidden room, I wouldn't tell anyone about it. Would sort of defeat the purpose, I think.

 

[Garys]

Well, if they were targeting NES members, they'd have to get real identities from screen names, so I don't think that's happening, but I do think this is Massachusetts specific.

Nope, she spent most of the first part of the week in ME, doing the same thing.

The Boston office handles eastern MA and ME. I don't know who does VT and NH.