College campus

mousegunfan said:
Is it still a no gun zone if it stays locked in your vehicle? Sucks to have to drive 2 1//2 hours each way unarmed these days when bringing kids stuff to school.
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Too many variables in your post...not enough info

1. Assume the campus is in mass because you are posting in the ma furum

2. 2.5 hour commute.....does that put you in another state if residency? If so do you even have a non res ltc? If not absof***inglutely you should not bring a fire arm into ma let alone a camous. If you do have a non res......we can discuss options in mass.....maybe park off campus?
 
mousegunfan said:
From your post as long as it's in the lock box and unloaded before entering the campus property, gun never leaving the vehicle it's legal, correct. Never leaving MA. Thanks.
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Property is a very key word In those regulations.

Bob

ETA:

MisterHappy said:
IANAL.

The law and reality are not congruent. I know of one person that was jammed up, for real, for having a properly stored long gun and ammo in their locked vehicle on a college campus.

'Cuz guns and 'cuz safety.

YMMV.
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Only in Massachusetts can you get arrested, lose your LTC, and probably convicted for not breaking the law.
 
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mousegunfan said:
These responses are BS, are you 12? Trainer of what, tinker toys. Go to the gaming forum, this is the law forum.
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How about you take two seconds, breathe in, blink a few times, then breathe out slowly.
Then lighten up a little.
Gun free zones = gun free zones, no matter how you have it located. That said, you do you.
 
The law prohibits carrying on the person, not properly stored in a car. That didn't stop more than one person from getting jammed up.

MGL Ch 269 Section 10:


(j) For the purposes of this paragraph, ''firearm'' shall mean any pistol, revolver, rifle or smoothbore arm from which a shot, bullet or pellet can be discharged.

Whoever, not being a law enforcement officer and notwithstanding any license obtained by the person pursuant to chapter 140, carries on the person a firearm, loaded or unloaded, or other dangerous weapon in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university without the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of the elementary or secondary school, college or university shall be punished by a fine of not more than $1,000 or by imprisonment for not more than 2 years or both. A law enforcement officer may arrest without a warrant and detain a person found carrying a firearm in violation of this paragraph.

Any officer in charge of an elementary or secondary school, college or university or any faculty member or administrative officer of an elementary or secondary school, college or university that fails to report a violation of this paragraph shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and punished by a fine of not more than $500.
 
IIRC @Rob Boudrie at least one person was CONVICTED when the gun was locked up in the vehicle on a school property. I'll let him expound on that.

Yes, the law reads "carry" but the Marsupial judges make up new "law" all the time when it comes to guns!
 
mousegunfan said:
These responses are BS, are you 12? Trainer of what, tinker toys. Go to the gaming forum, this is the law forum.
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Then you're not going to like this reply, either:

Concealed means concealed.

Seriously, the law on this is pretty simple, and easy to find. I'm not certain what you're expecting to hear. Your choice about whether or not to comply with that law is your own, and you can make that decision better than we can.

Good luck.
 
Len-2A Training said:
IIRC @Rob Boudrie at least one person was CONVICTED when the gun was locked up in the vehicle on a school property. I'll let him expound on that.

Yes, the law reads "carry" but the Marsupial judges make up new "law" all the time when it comes to guns!
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Actually, the law reads "carry on one's person".

It does not surprise me, but I am also aware of cases where the charge was dropped when opposing counsel pointed out the law. Of course, they often refile as a storage charge if they can. If this is an otherwise innocent person (without baggage that could prejudice the court) and the case is recent enough, Comm2A would like details.

This is also while YOU need to know the law and don't expect a general practice attorney to know all the nuances. It's a matter of what you can afford - get the family lawyer whose criminal experience is DUIs and arranging CWOF for 'minor in possession of alcohol' charges and there is an excellent chance the attorney will take the assertion that the behavior alleged is a violation of law as fact. Langer, Guida, Tassel, Foley, MacNut and a few others I am probably offending by not listing (sorry!) would not make that mistake.

A well informed defendant would insist that his/her attorney, at minimum, raised the "was not in violation of the law" - being sure to cite the precedent that different wording, particularly in different sections of the same law, are presumed to have meaning. This would make it more difficult for a marsupial to rule in contradiction to law, and prevent an appeal from being denied on the basis of "counsel should have raised this issue at the original trial".

Do not take a judge trial on this one unless your attorney really knows the judge's leanings. If the judge wants to act like (s)he does not have a gestation pouch, the charge to the jury will describe the elements of the offense include "on ones person". If not, counsel must get the request for such instructions on the record. Jury charges are a frequent gateway to an appeal - now you would have two grounds (a) behavior was not a violation of law, and (b) judge refused to explain all elements of the offense to the jury.
 
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Len-2A Training said:
IIRC @Rob Boudrie at least one person was CONVICTED when the gun was locked up in the vehicle on a school property. I'll let him expound on that.

Yes, the law reads "carry" but the Marsupial judges make up new "law" all the time when it comes to guns!
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I was about to bat-light @lens in my first response, but he and Rob beat me to it.

I had some interesting discussion about this topic with the head lawyer for a nonprofit I worked with. 501c3, which taught students and thus was a campus and a school. They carefully maintained their position pre pepper spray law change too.

I believe you will find more cases around pepper spray on campus vs firearms which may give precedent.

Short was, with permission, I could carry. Without permission, I could store in vehicle under MA storage laws. To carry to an then store on... One would have to disarm off campus.

Basically, treat it like the post office.

Stop off road outside of property. Disarm and store properly following both Storage and Transportation legal standards on a public way or on a private property with permission. Then go onto campus.

And also, pray to the primer God that your vehicle never got broken in to.

On the way home, repeat of same.

This "flew" with the legal council at that particular school.

Open question was whether any Storage allowance in post office parking lots is valid. I know it has been upheld for schools (by their permission. )

Alternatively: "concealed means concealed" and " ops going to jail" are honestly both perfect and acceptible answers to the plebian horde.
 
fshalor said:
Open question was whether any Storage allowance in post office parking lots is valid. I know it has been upheld for schools (by their permission. )
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Someone in CO sued and lost in Fed Court. They wanted to be able to leave the gun locked up in the car on USPO property while tending to business there and the ruling was that it wasn't legal.
 
Len-2A Training said:
Someone in CO sued and lost in Fed Court. They wanted to be able to leave the gun locked up in the car on USPO property while tending to business there and the ruling was that it wasn't legal.
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I figured. The fed rule for Post Office property is very deep. Irony, I wouldn't be surprised if it extended to our personal mail boxes. Or the required easement to access them.
 
AHM said:
Everyone his kids tell.
(Feel free to point out that "telling kids" counts as "something stupid").
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Leaving a loose piece of brass lying around has in at least one case been the basis for a search warrant. I read the warrant application and it stated the subject was suspected of having a gun stored in the car in violation of 269-10j. And yes, the judge approved a warrant for this non-crime and when it got to district court the first the judge said was "I don't want to hear any arguments about the warrant.". It never made it a real trial because the defendant felt it was not worth risking a conviction when he was offered a CWOF deal on the storage charge that was filed immediately after his attorney pointed out the non-crime and the ADA dropped that charge.
 
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greencobra said:
unless one is doing something stupid to flag a firearm is locked in the car, who's going to know? we must all be pretty good at keeping these "secrets" by now.
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Dog sweep. If a properly trained animal happens to be deployed for a training exercise or routine weapons sweep.

Long shot but possible.

🐯
 
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CatSnoutSoup said:
Dog sweep. If a properly trained animal happens to be deployed for a training exercise or routine weapons sweep.

Long shot but possible.
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At least you have advance warning -
the sound and fury of the cop
(who's open carrying an uncleaned Glock and reloads),
trying to pry the sniffer dog off of his leg.
 
mousegunfan said:
This isn't a normal drop off, in and out. There are these special rules. Check in points, then unload at the curb and move vehicle back to check in point. Then go back to the dorm on foot or shuttle to bring items into the dorm. My issue is what's going on at the check in area and my vehicle under their control. These people seem drunk with power and I would not put it past them that due to Covid we need to search your vehicle.

Since their is no clear cut law, or new rulings allowing it, which is what I was asking, I guess I'll get batteries for my 6D flashlight and leave the gun at home. Thanks anyway.
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I certainly would not leave a firearm unattended in a vehicle on any college campus at any time, even in a lockbox. Though, if they ask to search, you can just decline. If they insist, you can drive away. If you don't want to leave your vehicle, your kid can carry everything up.

Lots of choices. I probably just wouldn't bring a gun, honestly. I've moved into many college campuses; I don't think it's ever been a day likely to lead to a shootout. The only dorm shooting I ever saw happened on move-OUT day, and even that one was targeted. Nobody else was in any danger.
 
1975 as a freshman at college in Worcester:
Walk to gym.​
Walk into pistol range in the basement.​
Give kid at counter a few bucks.​
Kid hands you a .22 pistol, box of cartridges, and a few targets.​
Shoot for a while.​
Hand leftovers back to kid at counter.​
Walk back to dorm.​

Met one of my 2nd/3rd year roommates there when he was at the station next to me.

Times do change.
 
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