guns on campus

[tacticalpanda]

So as far as I understand I can't carry on campus. I have two questions to that. Is it legal to have the gun stored in the trunk or a locked container?

Question two:
Due to my mothers job my parents live on a college campus. My father is now talking about getting his ltc but would he be allowed to own guns if he is on campus? Could he get permission from the campus police? Not sure how to proceed

 

[Deleted member 12999]

Do they live in Campus owned property? Or is it an open campus, and they live in a house that is kind of just in the vicinity?

As for locked in trunk, the statute says carrying on person, and I don't know of any specific case law on it. Smarter people will chime in most likely, then the thread will devolve into something about dogs or open carrying.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

So as far as I understand I can't carry on campus. I have two questions to that. Is it legal to have the gun stored in the trunk or a locked container?

Question two:
Due to my mothers job my parents live on a college campus. My father is now talking about getting his ltc but would he be allowed to own guns if he is on campus? Could he get permission from the campus police? Not sure how to proceed

Regarding the firearms in your truck/locked container. If you read the college's policy, I'm sure you give away your rights to a vehicle search and any firearm on any campus is a no-no. Definitely would be asking for trouble there.

 

[Deleted member 12999]

Regarding the firearms in your truck/locked container. If you read the college's policy, I'm sure you give away your rights to a vehicle search and any firearm on any campus is a no-no. Definitely would be asking for trouble there.

I can't think of any college that has a policy allowing them to search your car at random. Dorm rooms, yes, but not if the RA or Staff is acting as an agent of Law Enforcement. I read some case law on it at in service a while ago. If a college has a PD, they are held to the same standards of Probable Cause. A tow would be a different story though, that is policy based.

 

[tacticalpanda]

Interesting will have to look through campus policy. My car would never be searched as most officers know who I am and I doubt would search my car. Plus it is always parked in their private driveway so no worries there.

Colddayinhell - is there law saying I cant have a firearm on campus or would it just be school policy? Does it matter that the college is a private college not state run?

As for their house it is campus owned property. Her job requires her to live on campus. Could a college police station grant an LTC to someone as well? (this is more out of curiosity).

 

[Deleted member 12999]

No. Campus PD can't issue license. Only letter from president of college is exemption to this BS law.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

I can't think of any college that has a policy allowing them to search your car at random. Dorm rooms, yes, but not if the RA or Staff is acting as an agent of Law Enforcement. I read some case law on it at in service a while ago. If a college has a PD, they are held to the same standards of Probable Cause. A tow would be a different story though, that is policy based.

Every Umass campus has this clearly written in their handbook. I believe this goes for any parking lot on campus grounds.

 

[Deleted member 12999]

Every Umass campus has this clearly written in their handbook. I believe this goes for any parking lot on campus grounds.

If the Police are enforcing that 'policy' and trying to skirt the 4th amd with it, that's BS. The way the case I remember would treat it as fruit of poisonous tree if they tried to file charges based on that policy search. I believe the case was an RA was told by police to contact them for anything illegal they found on a 'Health and Safety' check (thus making them agents of the government), and they would come in search and file charges. That was a no-go. If they (RAs) found something, PD would have to apply for search warrant.

 

[taggart]

Every Umass campus has this clearly written in their handbook. I believe this goes for any parking lot on campus grounds.

In the student handbook or the employee handbook?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

1. Yes it is legal, however, campus police are generally, and perhaps intentionally, not trained as to that nuance of 269-10j.

2. Even though the inevitable results is dismissal of charges, there is no protection against being expelled - even if the search was found to be illegal.

3. Do not expect magistrates to understand this either. A search warrant would almost certainly be issued if a campus officer presented evidence that suggested a gun in your car (as the magistrate will not proof-read the law, and you are not represented when the rubber stamping, er I mean application, is processed by the court).

4. If you are in this situation, (a) Never consent to a search, and (b) never say ANYTHING that remotely suggests you did ANYTHING with the gun when on campus. Even stating that you "put it in the trunk of your car after parking" is an admission you carried on your person in violation of 269-10j.

5. Use a hard to remove trigger lock, as the "system" will be eager to get you on a storage charge. It should be hard to "accidentally" lose evidence the gun was properly secured when in storage.

No. Campus PD can't issue license. Only letter from president of college is exemption to this BS law.

The actual wording is "board or officer in charge", not "president".

And, curiously enough, "faculty" are mandated reporters but "staff" are not. And yes, there is a HUGE distinction - just try calling a faculty member an "employee" or "staff member" and it will be explained to you .

Any officer in charge of an elementary or secondary school, college or university or any faculty member or administrative officer of an elementary or secondary school, college or university failing to report violations of this paragraph shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and punished by a fine of not more than five hundred dollars.

 

[tacticalpanda]

Thanks Rob. A very good explanation. So who is a "Board or officer in charge". Would that be who ever is in charge of the PD there? Board members? President? Or is it like most Mass laws, vague and incomprehensible?

 

[Gillham]

I can't think of any college that has a policy allowing them to search your car at random. Dorm rooms, yes, but not if the RA or Staff is acting as an agent of Law Enforcement. I read some case law on it at in service a while ago. If a college has a PD, they are held to the same standards of Probable Cause. A tow would be a different story though, that is policy based.

As a former RA, we would knock and identify ourselves. Ask them if we could look around. If they said no or refused to open the door. A Resident Director and the campus police department would be called. Also, we would have the residents open doors and fridges.

Also - for OP's question, I'd say to have them approach Campus PD about a written approval for having firearms on campus.

 

[Marcus99]

Is anyone aware of an example where a student was able to secure a letter from the dean/president/BOD that allowed them to carry on campus in MA? Excluding students that were LEO or campus police, as well as any other special circumstances.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Is anyone aware of an example where a student was able to secure a letter from the dean/president/BOD that allowed them to carry on campus in MA? Excluding students that were LEO or campus police, as well as any other special circumstances.

NO, other than members of MIT's Pistol Club and that only allowed (as I understand it) cased carry to range and to/from campus police where it needed to be locked up (IIRC) between matches if personally owned.

Back in either late 1970s or early 1980s I made the request of the NU President, got a polite denial letter response from the chief of campus police. I personally knew both people . . . the next time I saw Ken Ryder (NU president) he asked me "Why the hell did you write me that letter?" (he was puzzled) and I explained the law to him. I got sworn in as a Reserve PO and never gave it another thought . . . carried on campus every time I was there over the years and nothing they could do about it (there was a stink on campus as allegedly a PO had a ND on campus, so they looked into banning LEOs from carrying and learned the sad facts of MGL exempting them . . . at least that is the story that I was told). Back when I was a student, NU had a rifle team and rifle range . . . it was later dismantled (as was the ROTC range in another building) and became office space. These days you couldn't pay me to put a foot on NU's campus, so it matters not to me.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Is anyone aware of an example where a student was able to secure a letter from the dean/president/BOD that allowed them to carry on campus in MA? Excluding students that were LEO or campus police, as well as any other special circumstances.

Any official who wrote such a letter would be placing their entire career in academia in jeopardy if anything happened, however, not allowing you to arm yourself presents no such risk. Unless the school is either issuing a press release announcing you are gracing the campus with your presence, or you are visiting to discuss the details of a building to be named after yourself that you are donating, all that will happen if you make such a request is you will be on a list of people to be watched carefully.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Any official who wrote such a letter would be placing their entire career in academia in jeopardy if anything happened, however, not allowing you to arm yourself presents no such risk. Unless the school is either issuing a press release announcing you are gracing the campus with your presence, or you are visiting to discuss the details of a building to be named after yourself that you are donating, all that will happen if you make such a request is you will be on a list of people to be watched carefully.

I agree with the first half. Disagree with the bolded part. As alumni VP of my class, when NU worked with alumni (they no longer do and haven't since mid-1990s) I was on campus a lot at leadership conferences, phone banks, reunion planning meetings, etc. Nobody ever broached the subject again after the letter and simple question by the president. Maybe since they had known me for many years and didn't assess me as any threat, I don't know . . . just that it was never an issue. Ever since they kissed off the alumni, I'm the one with the issue and all my prior contacts are deceased or have moved on. NU is dead to me!

 

[TZCHRIS]

I think I read here one time that "Concealed means concealed" but I don't know what that means.

 

[Gillham]

Our rifle team carried cased rifles and air rifles to/from the bus to to/from the range on campus (metro Boston). But this was also under supervision of our coach. Though there was no real like, formal check-in/check-out procedure. Then again, we're athletes going to shoot a match, not Rambo.

 

[TZCHRIS]

Wait a minute, are you calling yourself an athlete because you shoot or are you also on the football team? Sorry, I really shouldn't drink and NES.