California's "list" vs Massachusetts "list"

[Cero]

I hate the "list" of "approved" firearms. It makes no sense but it's not going away anytime soon. I knew that Kalifornia also had an "approved list" but, I was surprised that it has many more manufacturers than Ma does.



http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

just click find

 

[mpkeelee]

All those guns have an expiration date. So if they don't make their guns CA compliant they will be removed from the list. Right?

 

[taz-2005]

They have the micro stamping law that went into effect for all new guns so it would seem the "list" is moot if no manufacturer incorporates this BS.

California to enforce 'micro-stamping' gun law - MontereyHerald.com :

SAN FRANCISCO — A hotly contested California gun-control law that was passed in 2007 is finally ready to be implemented, Attorney General Kamala Harris said this week: a requirement that every new semiautomatic handgun contain "micro-stamping" technology that would allow police to trace a weapon from cartridges found at a crime scene.

This is a little clearer. Any new model will be out in CA.

Current “California-Approved” Semi-Auto Pistols Can Still Be Sold — For a Time
The “activation” of California’s microstamping requirement does NOT mean that semi-auto handguns currently on the California “approved” list can no longer be sold. The current inventory of “approved” handguns are “grandfathered”, so they may be sold so long as the manufacturers continue to pay annual handgun roster registration fees to the State of California. However, any new-model semi-auto pistol — even one with a minor design change from a previous version — will be blocked from sale in California unless it has the microstamping feature. If a manufacturer stops producing a particular handgun, replacing it with a newer, upgraded version, that newer model cannot be sold in California unless it is microstamp-capable. (We should add that the microstamp requirement does not apply to handguns sold to law enforcement agencies.)

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...-micro-stamping-requirement-goes-into-effect/

 

[invaliduser]

how does the microstamping crap work with reloaders?

 

[jpm]

how does the microstamping crap work with reloaders?

its on the firing pin of the gun and imprinted on the primer when its fired so it would have no effect on reloaders

 

[WallHack]

What an absolutely ridiculous requirement.

I also like the "It'll help solve crimes/save lives..... UNLESS it's on this list because the manufacturer paid us a bunch of money. In that case, Carte Blanche"

 

[invaliduser]

its on the firing pin of the gun and imprinted on the primer when its fired so it would have no effect on reloaders

Ah I see.
But firing pins are unregulated parts.. one can easily be had and swapped out. This is useless

 

[Cero]

All those guns have an expiration date. So if they don't make their guns CA compliant they will be removed from the list. Right?

Handgun models will be removed from the roster on the list expiration date unless the manufacturer renews the listing prior to the list expiration date.

The micro stamping requirement is being challenged in court by 2 groups I think.


It's also crazy that Springfield finds Ca laws easy to understand and will sell there but can't figure out Ma laws and wont bother.

 

[hunt4riches]

Ah I see.
But firing pins are unregulated parts.. one can easily be had and swapped out. This is useless

How many rounds does a micro-stamped firing pin take to wear out. I haven't looked into the laws. Do they say "must be sold with" or "must always have" ?

 

[taz-2005]

How many rounds does a micro-stamped firing pin take to wear out. I haven't looked into the laws. Do they say "must be sold with" or "must always have" ?

This passage makes sound like it would need to be fixed before it could be sold.

To make a firearm compliant, firearms manufacturers must now engrave a gun’s make, model, and serial number on two distinct parts of each gun, including the firing pin, so that, in theory, this data is imprinted on the cartridge casing when the pistol is fired. If the microstamp on the end of the firing pin wears out, then the gun is considered “unsafe” under California law, and the owner may not sell or transfer the gun.

 

[mpkeelee]

It's just more stuff for the criminals to file off

 

[center442]

This passage makes sound like it would need to be fixed before it could be sold.

So, an end run around this stupidity would be to replace the original firing pin on the gun with a "generic" one when you acquire it and simply swap it back in if you transfer the gun. How, exactly, does one determine that the firing pin hasn't "worn out" when you transfer the gun? Fire a round into the dirt in your back yard, recover the case, then go find/buy a microscope so you can examine it? Who is going to verify the condition of the firing pin? This appears to be a completely unenforceable law, and I'm not even getting into the technical problems with the whole "microstamping" fiasco.

I'd ask for an explanation of exactly what problem this is supposed to solve but I've already come to the conclusion that there isn't any. Why are legislators like those in Kali, the PRM, and a few other places so fond of mental masturbation?

 

[Radtekk]

And the last line states "we should add that the microstamp requirement does not apply to handguns sold to law enforcement agencies."

Because cops never commit crimes? Never make mistakes? What?

 

[drgrant]

It's just more stuff for the criminals to completely ignore.

Fixed it for you.

-Mike

 

[Rob Boudrie]

All those guns have an expiration date. So if they don't make their guns CA compliant they will be removed from the list. Right?

I believe CA requires $200/gun/year to remain on the list, plus forfeiture of one sample gun to the crown at time of application.

 

[StevieP]

It's just so ****ing stupid.

Microstamping.

It can be defeated by using a mesh onion bag and two pieces of electrical tape, to catch the spent shell casings. Or the criminals will just switch to revolvers.

I cannot fathom how such a shitty law (microstamping) passed, when it's SO easily defeated in any number of ways.

 

[hurley431]

.

 

[Glockster30]

This passage makes sound like it would need to be fixed before it could be sold.

"If the micro-stamp on the end of the firing pin wears out, then the gun is considered "unsafe" under California law, and the owner may not sell or transfer the gun."

If the above sentence isn't the definition for the "lunatics running the asylum," then nothing is. Change the micro-stamped firing pin out for a generic one, and replace it with the micro-stamp when selling.

Not to add to this foolishness, but if the micro-stamped firing pin breaks, how will it be replaced? Does one need to contact the manufacturer and asked for a new micro-stamp with the same number so that it matches the firearm?

 

[hurley431]

.

 

[djmefitz]

This will define fly be challenged as I see no manufacturers complying with this in the near term thus ending sales of new models

 

[Billsail]

How many unique identifiers can you etch (engrave?) on that small surface??? If manufacturers comply, which I think is doubtful, how much will this add to the cost of a gun?

 

[taz-2005]

I think the underlying intent is that the firearm eventually CAN'T be resold... or perhaps even sold to begin with... since the investment in equipment may not be warranted by the returns it produces for the manufacturers.

The intent is a de facto ban. While current models can be sold if the manufacturer changes anything on it, I.e. S&W with - number change that model cannot be sold without the microstamping.

Also any new model needs it as well; so it is unlikely that a manufacturer would go through the cost for one market.

 

[EC1]

I believe CA requires $200/gun/year to remain on the list, plus forfeiture of one sample gun to the crown at time of application.

I believe that basically it makes older guns non-transferable once they are taken off the list.

 

[calsdad]

Or a single swipe with a metal file... or sand paper.

I bet it's even easier than that. If you think of all the different pieces involved - the microstamp likely won't work a bunch of the time even on a perfectly new properly functioning gun. Things like the hardness of the primer, the pressure on the striker spring, temperature, harness of the firing pin - etc. will all affect whether the microstamps "work" or not.

I bet there's even a way to defeat it if you came out with primers that have a certain surface texture on them and then reload your own ammo. That whole microstamp thing is the height of stupidity.

It's like the NSA - which is gathering up all of our communications, building massive data center out in Utah - and it came out recently that they haven't stopped a SINGLE terrorist incident in ten years even after doing all of that.

 

[Bob Palermo]

Just collect some brass from local gun clubs and dump it around the crime scene. That will keep the police busy for weeks.

 

[bricktop]

Let's make firing pins that microstamp things like "GFY", "STAMPY", and "MOLON LABE", along with pictures of various anatomical regions of the human body.

 

[chris_1001]

Always pick up your brass at the range! Good place for criminals to get false evidence... And maybe a good defense?

Good luck engraving more than 2 letter/numbers on a FP. I want mine to say "BANG!"

Guessing more revolver use will ensue...

Stupid!!!

- - - Updated - - -

Just collect some brass from local gun clubs and dump it around the crime scene. That will keep the police busy for weeks.

You beat me!

 

[Quiet]

Some enterprising young Chinese company will set up lots of high-tech equipment to manufacture firing pins for US Arms manufacturers and for people who want/need replacement pins...

I bet it's even easier than that. If you think of all the different pieces involved - the microstamp likely won't work a bunch of the time even on a perfectly new properly functioning gun. Things like the hardness of the primer, the pressure on the striker spring, temperature, harness of the firing pin - etc. will all affect whether the microstamps "work" or not.

I bet there's even a way to defeat it if you came out with primers that have a certain surface texture on them and then reload your own ammo. That whole microstamp thing is the height of stupidity.

Why not come out with production untraceable ammo? Any law against that yet?

It's like the NSA - which is gathering up all of our communications, building massive data center out in Utah - and it came out recently that they haven't stopped a SINGLE terrorist incident in ten years even after doing all of that.

Is that true? I thought they were claiming like 50 or something.... all lies as usual?

 

[noddaduma]

Ah I see.
But firing pins are unregulated parts.. one can easily be had and swapped out. This is useless

And bitterly contested by gun owners. However, it was still signed by Arnold Schwarzeneggar--a true RINO.

 

[calsdad]

Why not come out with production untraceable ammo? Any law against that yet?

Some milsurp ammo is known to have "hard" primers. I'd be curious to know if the microstamp firing pins leave their mark behind on them.

I bet there's also some sort of pattern that could be "printed" onto primers that would screw up the microstamping

Is that true? I thought they were claiming like 50 or something.... all lies as usual?

According to this it is:

Ah, The NSA Has NO Terrorist Stops To Its Credit? in [Market-Ticker]

(note to mods: Denninger allows full posting as long as credit is given)

Ah, The NSA Has NO Terrorist Stops To Its Credit?


When do we start locking up Administration officials for perjury in their so-called "testimony" before Congress?

Pressed by the Democratic chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee at an oversight hearing, Gen. Keith B. Alexander admitted that the number of terrorist plots foiled by the NSA’s huge database of every phone call made in or to America was only one or perhaps two — far smaller than the 54 originally claimed by the administration.

But wait a second -- Clapper assured the American people (and Congress) that this program was not only lawful it was producing actual stops of actual terrorist plots.

Now the number is "one or perhaps two" -- and that number is hedged, which means it might really be zero?

First Clapper lied under oath and said that the NSA was not collecting any data about millions of Americans -- a lie exposed by Snowden.

Then he lied again when he claimed that these agencies were using the programs in question to produce actual results and had foiled actual plots (note the plural.)

Now it turns out that the program has done nothing other than produce a grand treasure trove of data that the government can use retrospectively, any time it would like for illicit purpose.

It's time to jail every one of these ****ers -- and all of their supporters in Congress, condemning and taking the wrecking ball to the NSA's data facilities.