Bullet Creep: Federal 9mm Luger 115grain FMJ - no powder in cartridge

[loneranger]

Tues, I was shooting my new Ruger LCR 9mm ( a revolver with a 5 round cylinder) when a bullet fell out of another cylinder. I assumed the recoil of previous shots loosened the bullet from the cartridge which is bad BUT worse there was no powder in the cartridge! What are the chances?

I fired two more sets, ten rounds from same box and no problem. The third set, it happened again!



Was there a recall?

I set the box aside and sent an email to Federal from their website, so far no response.

Manufacturing problem.
Had 2 rounds of 9mm 115 grain FMJ RN with no powder in cartridge! Bullets loosened and fell out of open revolver cylinder as I fired off live rounds in other cylinders. Box numbers:
197027
WM51991
H
8944
Can mail remaining box.

 

[MisterHappy]

Super-sub-sonic round for ultra-covert ops?



thanks for the heads up - please post the response from the mfr.

 

[not new guy]

Ammo problems suck, but I'll take no charge over a double any day.

 

[92G]

Im skeptical he issue is the ammo. More likely the lcr w bullet jumping the crimp. Try rumning the federal ammo through an autoloading pistol before you blame the ammo.

 

[daekken]

Looks like you're not the only one?
https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/324269-Federal-9mm-ammo-problem

 

[Lsgun1]

Im skeptical he issue is the ammo. More likely the lcr w bullet jumping the crimp. Try rumning the federal ammo through an autoloading pistol before you blame the ammo.

If there's no powder in the case how would there not be a problem with the ammo?

 

[greencobra]

Im skeptical he issue is the ammo. More likely the lcr w bullet jumping the crimp. Try rumning the federal ammo through an autoloading pistol before you blame the ammo.

could happen. bullet jumps crimp, powder spills out. most people open a cylinder pointing the gun down a bit so there goes the powder.

 

[peterthefish]

Warning: Federal 9mm Luger 115grain FMJ - no powder in cartridge

could happen. bullet jumps crimp, powder spills out. most people open a cylinder pointing the gun down a bit so there goes the powder.

This. Or the recoil that's pulling the bullet out also sprays the powder out. Much more likely than two squibs in Federal ammo which just happen to be the ones that pulled out.

Stop limp wristing that bad boy.

 

[loneranger]

Yes, the powder if it was there would have poured out of the cylinder and onto the bench, maybe flashed.

I hate to think of what might have happened with a semi-auto if the empty round extracted and bullet remained as the next round was inserted into the chamber. I like to think that I would have noticed the no-fire, no recoil.

 

[drgrant]

Tues, I was shooting my new Ruger LCR 9mm ( a revolver with a 5 round cylinder) when a bullet fell out of another cylinder. I assumed the recoil of previous shots loosened the bullet from the cartridge which is bad BUT worse there was no powder in the cartridge! What are the chances?

If the bullets fell out of the cartridge, there's nothing there to hold the powder in it.... you sure the powder didnt just dribble out of the gun at that point? (or get shaken out under recoil? Or simply fall out of the gun when you removed the brass?)

I'm not excusing the poor construction of the cartridges, just suggesting that getting a bunch of full-on squibs (powderless rounds) in one box of ammo isn't likely.

-Mike

 

[greencobra]

Looks like you're not the only one?
https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/324269-Federal-9mm-ammo-problem

this sounds like a different issue. oddly he says the ones that didn't fire had off center firing pin stikes. hmmm, strange.

 

[loneranger]

If the bullets fell out of the cartridge, there's nothing there to hold the powder in it.... you sure the powder didnt just dribble out of the gun at that point? (or get shaken out under recoil? Or simply fall out of the gun when you removed the brass?)

I'm not excusing the poor construction of the cartridges, just suggesting that getting a bunch of full-on squibs (powderless rounds) in one box of ammo isn't likely.

-Mike

Maybe. We were shooting at the 7yd range at Harvard. IMO, if the powder fell out, it would have landed on the bench. If the powder was pushed out by recoil, it would have been on my hands. Either way hard to miss.

 

[greencobra]

Yes, the powder if it was there would have poured out of the cylinder and onto the bench, maybe flashed.

how would it have flashed, the primers were not struck.

I hate to think of what might have happened with a semi-auto if the empty round extracted and bullet remained as the next round was inserted into the chamber. I like to think that I would have noticed the no-fire, no recoil.

the slide wouldn't have functioned to come back and pick up another round. you would have had to work it by hand. this alone would make most peoples light bulb come on and the need to investigate before trying to chamber another round.

a few years back i saw a guy at harvard do just that. had a squib load, manually pulled back the slide to eject the case, and let it go loading another round into the chamber. the gun didn't go into battery lucky for him but he thought his reloads were bulged causing the slide not to go into battery. he did it a second time with a new round and the same thing. i yelled for him to stop and went over with a cleaning rod to stick in the barrel. that first bullet from the squib was just in far enough preventing the slide to close fully. he was a lucky guy that day. this was a .45 acp he had.

yeah, you'll notice something wasn't right if a round doesn't fire. the important thing is being smart and stopping to check before carrying on.

 

[Shootfirst]

Where and when did u buy the ammo

 

[gunofthrones]

anti gun folks find jobs in ammunition factory.

 

[loneranger]

how would it have flashed, the primers were not struck.

the slide wouldn't have functioned to come back and pick up another round. you would have had to work it by hand. this alone would make most peoples light bulb come on and the need to investigate before trying to chamber another round.

a few years back i saw a guy at harvard do just that. had a squib load, manually pulled back the slide to eject the case, and let it go loading another round into the chamber. the gun didn't go into battery lucky for him but he thought his reloads were bulged causing the slide not to go into battery. he did it a second time with a new round and the same thing. i yelled for him to stop and went over with a cleaning rod to stick in the barrel. that first bullet from the squib was just in far enough preventing the slide to close fully. he was a lucky guy that day. this was a .45 acp he had.

yeah, you'll notice something wasn't right if a round doesn't fire. the important thing is being smart and stopping to check before carrying on.

"Maybe flashed" from the heat of the previously discharged round.

Good point checking chamber and round when manually ejecting. Thanks.

I am not familiar with their manufacturing process, but doesn't the powder have to be in cartridge to seat bullet at right height. Without powder, won't the press push the bullet down into the cartridge case? These looked like a regular 9mm round when loading cylinder.

 

[Shootfirst]

Lol. Its a conspiracy.

 

[loneranger]

Where and when did u buy the ammo

It was either Walmart in Amherst,NH or Thomaston,ME.

 

[Shootfirst]

Thank you

 

[loneranger]

I called Federal (800) 379-1732 and spoke with one of their techs - Brian.

He re-educated me regarding bullet creep (crimp jump) with lightweight 9mm revolvers - the S&W Airweights and the Ruger LCR, i.e. that the inertia from the previous spent rounds is creeping forward the bullet. In my case, both rounds were the 5th round. He quoted the Ruger LCR manual about "bullet creep".

Okay, but Brian what about the powder? Well he said there is not much powder, I think he said 9 grains?, maybe a quarter to a third of the cartridge has "powder" and it's granular like salt not powdery like talc. So I opened a 9mm cartridge and played with gun powder. Rolls or bounces off my hand and hard surfaces. No residue, no mess at all. Not at all like the gunpowder I made with my old Gilbert chemistry set.



So he recommended that I measure the round height before firing. Fire 3 or 4 rounds and measure the height of the remaining round(s). I will do this next trip. He also recommended using the tighter crimp American Eagle brand and ask Ruger what ammo they use.

Brian kindly offered a new box of ammo but I declined, I should have been smarter. Thanks to NES'ers who were on the right track.

 

[bill o]

I am not familiar with their manufacturing process, but doesn't the powder have to be in cartridge to seat bullet at right height. Without powder, won't the press push the bullet down into the cartridge case? These looked like a regular 9mm round when loading cylinder.

The bullet is always seated to a fixed depth regardless of how much powder is in the case.

 

[loneranger]

Thanks.

 

[Snora]

In my case, both rounds were the 5th round. He quoted the Ruger LCR manual about "bullet creep".

Okay, but Brian what about the powder?

What are the odds that you load up the gun twice and the two bullets that experience bullet creep also happen to have not been filled with powder?

 

[loneranger]

What are the odds that you load up the gun twice and the two bullets that experience bullet creep also happen to have not been filled with powder?

Let us hope 0.

 

[yanici]

Yes, bullet creep is something that can happen with some ammo in revolvers. It's something you should check when trying out different types of ammo. Be sure to test your carry ammo for this if you will use the gun to carry.

 

[eisenhow]

When I had my 38 special LCR I had issues with bullet pullout with factory Remington target ammo. The bullets didn't completely dislodge but the 5th was visibly pulled out after firing 4. After that I started measuring OAL after firing a partial cylinder part of my reloading process.

 

[Stape]

Ok, maybe I'm not tracking here, but is the OP saying he's shooting and the 4th or 5th round went "pop-fizz" from no powder, like primer only, or that the 4th/5th round the bullet just fell out of the front of the cylinder, or was it that he took the obviously longer OAL 4th/5th shot home and pulled them down to discover there was no powder? Crimp jump is a real thing and I've seen it lock up guns before, but I'd be hard pressed to believe that the bullet got pulled out, and further investigation revealed no powder. I think I could dump 4grns or powder out from a case at chest height and still notice evidence of powder at my feet. Unless he was outdoors or something. Maybe I need to re-read this thread to grasp what the OP is describing.

ETA ohhhhh ok, bullet fell out and he found no evidence of powder.......id think there would be some residual powder somewhere on a new gun, oil on it, some stuck to it, or some at his feet, on the bench ect.......the odds don't support it though...

 

[92G]

bumping this topic

 

[Snora]

bumping this topic

No data, just pass/fail through his own BS test? Interesting stuff but wish he was a bit more scientific. Unless people are carrying 12-16 shot revolvers then his test isn't very helpful.

 

[oldguy68]

I like Hornady Critical Defense ammo in my Ruger LCR 9mm due to the pointed tips making them glide right in when reloading with moon clips.

Heck in any revolver when reloading they would make it easier!