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Bug out Rifle

edmorseiii said:
OK, for those grabbing an AR, what optic and why?

I am starting to think an ACOG is in my future for an all around gun (SHTF if we are fantasizing), I just don't have much experience with them. I already have an EoTech and a 1-4x, would an ACOG give me something I don't already have?
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No Optics...Iron sights baby...Familiarity,accuracy,dependabilty,range,firepower,practical
 
Bob P said:
In a word: yes. I traded in my Eotech for one and haven't looked back. I love the extra magnification at longer rang and had no problem quickly aquiring targets at 25/50 and hitting them. Like 2 mags to get used to it and I was shooting as well or better than before.
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Jose said:
Stop searching. You already have the perfect, all around sight for a fighting rifle.
Click to expand...

SLIM SHOT said:
No Optics...Iron sights baby...Familiarity,accuracy,dependabilty,range,firepower,practical
Click to expand...

Thanks for the replies. The 1-4 I have is a Burris XTR, and I like it, I think I am going to look for a cat tail for it, and just start shooting it more.
 
Are there really going to be any deer left to shoot in the EOTWAWKI? Bambi is going to disappear faster than those bacon wrapped scallops at a wedding.

I think you would be better off with a rat trap.

B
 
bpm990d said:
Are there really going to be any deer left to shoot in the EOTWAWKI? Bambi is going to disappear faster than those bacon wrapped scallops at a wedding.

I think you would be better off with a rat trap.

B
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Yes, the fantasy of living off the land and waiting things out is a pipe dream. This country can produce a very small number of hunter-gatherers, and that number is orders of magnitude less than 300+ million. So even if that is an outcome for some people, it follows a very violent preamble.
 
Furrbrain said:
I was looking at the Keltec SU16C for that purpose. Collapses and can be kept in the BOB and fires from the collapsed state. For when you're in a hurry!
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I own it and it is backpack ready. It was my first thought when I ordered it and it will suit that purpose perfectly. It also takes my ar 30 round mags and stores either both factory 10 round mags or 1 30 round ar mag in the stock.

you guys can bitch all you want about them but I would that su16 over many of the POS hacked up AR's I see people carrying that are so "tacticool" at 15 lbs with all the crap on them. The su16 has its purpose and a place for use. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be lugging my 24" bull barrel AR if I had to beat feet in a hurry.
 
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If you actually had to "bug out" anywhere, then things have gotten so bad that you are probably dead in a few days anyway. If people are so desperate that they are climbing over the piles of bodies in my front yard to get my beefaroni, I am going to stay anyway. Too old and tired to be living in the woods.

I would say that in a last ditch bug out situation, an AK would be your best friend. For home defense also since you may not have time to clean the AR.
 
Timber said:
how does it group at 100 for you?
Click to expand...

OK...not as good as the ARs but decent for what it is. I don't expect 2 inch groups from a backpack rifle. I have to hit woodcock now that I just bought a new scope to test on it as I wasn't happy with the last one. If you are buying a su16c and expect to use the iron (plastic) sights on it don't bother...they are crap. The c model gets the same reaction and reviews from everyone on the sights. If I can keep a 4 inch group at 100 yards with that rifle I am happy and once I get this scope sighted in I want to see how much the accuracy strays when the barrel heats up considerably.

edit- OP is right. I had wanted the su16c but had to buy the su16A model because it would not fire when the stock was folded so that is the model that is legal in MA.
 
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1. OP – that is an incomplete question. First, you must define SHTF. Not all SHTF are alike. Actually almost all of them have different tactical requirements. Second, you must define the reason(s) you are BO and your end goal for BO. In most cases BO is the last thing you want to do, especially in cases where you think you’ll need a rifle. However, if we are playing games and the game question choose 1 tool without knowing tools end use – I’d probably would grab Mossberg 590. The reason being it’s the most versatile and devastating weapon I can carry concealed. With appropriate shell you can kill anything in NE within 150m. Granted that hitting something consistently at 150m is problematic and requires substantial training. Obviously shotgun has a number of disadvantages, not the least of which is the weight of the ammo.

2. Isn't SU16c illegal in MA?

3. I have tough time killing bambi now. With all these campers in the woods, even yearlings will wise up and only walk at night.[wink] Killing one with any kind of firearm will be a tall task. Besides why hunt deer with all these campers around caring 10/22 and MREs? [laugh] After I am through with MREs and Spam, I’ll go The Road style – my basement with an external lock is already setup. All I need is the “herd”. [shocked]

4. For all the Rambos out there – the Golden Horde ain’t walking to Sudbury after EMP. So do not sweat it. Few in the inner cities have cars, and even fewer can organize a convoy needed to successfully storm most wealthy suburbs. And rest assured 100,000 people are not walking 50 miles to storm your home for can of beans.[wink] That is why to surprise of many, LA riots didn’t spread to wealthy suburbs. These people will kill and burn each other and anything within a few hours walk, but they are not going to go on a multi-week death march just to see you. [grin] This is not to say that a car or two full of thugs might not break into your home… and you indeed could be in a firefight of your life, but do not expect angry crowds.

5. For all those Yankeenoodle fans who think they’ll be hitting motorcycle gangs at 500-600 yards – please show me your practice targets you hit from 500 yards away while those targets where moving 60mph. [rolleyes]

6. Can they future SHTF camper tell me how he is planning to survive a week of nights like we are enjoying right now without fire? [rolleyes]
 
OPM said:
1. OP – that is an incomplete question. First, you must define SHTF. Not all SHTF are alike. Actually almost all of them have different tactical requirements. Second, you must define the reason(s) you are BO and your end goal for BO. In most cases BO is the last thing you want to do, especially in cases where you think you’ll need a rifle. However, if we are playing games and the game question choose 1 tool without knowing tools end use – I’d probably would grab Mossberg 590. The reason being it’s the most versatile and devastating weapon I can carry concealed. With appropriate shell you can kill anything in NE within 150m. Granted that hitting something consistently at 150m is problematic and requires substantial training. Obviously shotgun has a number of disadvantages, not the least of which is the weight of the ammo.
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I thought the question was pick one(1) "Bug-Out" rifle?

If we can pick a shotgun......then I'll change to an AK Shotgun.[laugh]

...as far as jargon interjection paragraphs (#'s 2-6 )[laugh].....[rolleyes] ahh yupp.
 
OPM said:
1. OP – that is an incomplete question. First, you must define SHTF. Not all SHTF are alike. Actually almost all of them have different tactical requirements. Second, you must define the reason(s) you are BO and your end goal for BO. In most cases BO is the last thing you want to do, especially in cases where you think you’ll need a rifle. However, if we are playing games and the game question choose 1 tool without knowing tools end use – I’d probably would grab Mossberg 590. The reason being it’s the most versatile and devastating weapon I can carry concealed. With appropriate shell you can kill anything in NE within 150m. Granted that hitting something consistently at 150m is problematic and requires substantial training. Obviously shotgun has a number of disadvantages, not the least of which is the weight of the ammo.

2. Isn't SU16c illegal in MA?

3. I have tough time killing bambi now. With all these campers in the woods, even yearlings will wise up and only walk at night.[wink] Killing one with any kind of firearm will be a tall task. Besides why hunt deer with all these campers around caring 10/22 and MREs? [laugh] After I am through with MREs and Spam, I’ll go The Road style – my basement with an external lock is already setup. All I need is the “herd”. [shocked]

4. For all the Rambos out there – the Golden Horde ain’t walking to Sudbury after EMP. So do not sweat it. Few in the inner cities have cars, and even fewer can organize a convoy needed to successfully storm most wealthy suburbs. And rest assured 100,000 people are not walking 50 miles to storm your home for can of beans.[wink] That is why to surprise of many, LA riots didn’t spread to wealthy suburbs. These people will kill and burn each other and anything within a few hours walk, but they are not going to go on a multi-week death march just to see you. [grin] This is not to say that a car or two full of thugs might not break into your home… and you indeed could be in a firefight of your life, but do not expect angry crowds.

5. For all those Yankeenoodle fans who think they’ll be hitting motorcycle gangs at 500-600 yards – please show me your practice targets you hit from 500 yards away while those targets where moving 60mph. [rolleyes]
Click to expand...

1.) So I assume you work from home and never leave your secure area? I work 60 miles from my A.O., I need a bag that will allow me to get back to my A.O. if the SHTF any time during the 60 hours a week I'm at work and not in my A.O. This requires a AR and plenty of ammo.

2.) Any one who would trust their life to a KelTec needs their head examined.

3.) Hunting for food during an extended SHTF is a pipe dream.

4.) The people in the LA riots weren't starving or dying of dehydration. Go ahead an bank on desperate people staying put in the city.

5.) I don't recall seeing anyone say they are going to be engaging targets moving at 60mph from 500-600 yards. My best score at 600 yards is a 198-11x what is yours?

6.) What are you talking about?

I don't know why I bothered replying, you seem to have it all figured out. I'll hit you back with your favorite smilie [rolleyes]
 
OPTICS - Trijicon ACOG

Saw this question aways back but here are my reasons. It's 4X mag, Bindon Aiming Concept (both eyes open), reticle out to 800 meters, and the scope is fiberoptic + tritium lit = no batteries.

With this optic (bought off ebay, yes it's real) for $850 with the mount I can hold everything in a 2 - 2.5" at 100 meters, indicating I can score hits to 300 meters on MZB's if required. Then again, at that range, I would just sneak on by.


The fire question, backup against a hill (steeper the better), put some logs or at least some heavy fir branches on the 'out' side of the fire and use a space blanket as a reflector. It's won't be pleasant, but then again if it sucks you know you're still alive.
 
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The OP does not speak of what kind of SHTF event it just asks what rifle. A SHTF event is going to have a time when you need combat weapons and a time when you need to kill small game for food (assuming there is any). In any event its going to be a long term thing as in 3+ years. The first year(+/-) the "feed me" crowd will be long gone either by starvation or self destruction. After that you need a capable rifle *AND AMMO* to meet your needs. With a larger rifle you are limited to what? 8-10 mags? 300 rounds? A small rifle you can carry 1500 or more with ease. If the "game" is one rifle who survives longest then I think a .22 based rifle is best but does have disadvantages.

Not too sure I agree with those that want a combat rifle in their BOB to get 60 miles back home from work (handgun sure). The 60 mile trek home after an EMP event is not going to be any more dangerous than today. Everyone will be well fed but stunned. The ability to traverse the 60 miles home quickly is very important. Would you rather carry 10 pounds of rifle or 2 pounds of pistol and 8 pounds of water? I contend that an ultralight get home bag will get you home faster and less fatigued.

After the 60 mile trek home is a different story....

I'm not being dogmatic with anything I suggest, its interesting to read everyones opinions...there is a lot of real world experience in this forum.
 
chaynes68 said:
The OP does not speak of what kind of SHTF event it just asks what rifle. A SHTF event is going to have a time when you need combat weapons and a time when you need to kill small game for food (assuming there is any). In any event its going to be a long term thing as in 3+ years. The first year(+/-) the "feed me" crowd will be long gone either by starvation or self destruction. After that you need a capable rifle *AND AMMO* to meet your needs. With a larger rifle you are limited to what? 8-10 mags? 300 rounds? A small rifle you can carry 1500 or more with ease. If the "game" is one rifle who survives longest then I think a .22 based rifle is best but does have disadvantages.

Not too sure I agree with those that want a combat rifle in their BOB to get 60 miles back home from work (handgun sure). The 60 mile trek home after an EMP event is not going to be any more dangerous than today. Everyone will be well fed but stunned. The ability to traverse the 60 miles home quickly is very important. Would you rather carry 10 pounds of rifle or 2 pounds of pistol and 8 pounds of water? I contend that an ultralight get home bag will get you home faster and less fatigued.

After the 60 mile trek home is a different story....

I'm not being dogmatic with anything I suggest, its interesting to read everyones opinions...there is a lot of real world experience in this forum.
Click to expand...

You have a lot of faith in your fellow human beings. It took less than 24 hours for rampant looting and violence to hit NOLA.
 
Assuming you sheltered in place thru the storm how long would you have hung around waiting for food?

You can keep up a 3mph pace for a long time....10 hours of walking gets you 30 miles from the action. People hike the AT with a base pack weight of 12 pounds and do 20 miles in a day on rough trails. A 12 poind pack with a few pounds of food should not cut into your pace very much...OTOH a 40-50 pound pack will.


derek said:
You have a lot of faith in your fellow human beings. It took less than 24 hours for rampant looting and violence to hit NOLA.
Click to expand...
 
It takes a lot longer than 72 hrs to become not fat, I can't speak for dazed or complacent...
 
derek said:
If you don't know the countersign you're getting shot. [grin]
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From the IMDB

[Ventura knocks on the door]
Woodstock: What's the password?
Ace Ventura: New England clam chowder.
Woodstock: Is that the red or the white?
Ace Ventura: Ah, I can never remember that. White.
[door opens]
Ace Ventura: Yes.
Click to expand...

.
 
chaynes68 said:
Assuming you sheltered in place thru the storm how long would you have hung around waiting for food?

You can keep up a 3mph pace for a long time....10 hours of walking gets you 30 miles from the action. People hike the AT with a base pack weight of 12 pounds and do 20 miles in a day on rough trails. A 12 poind pack with a few pounds of food should not cut into your pace very much...OTOH a 40-50 pound pack will.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't wait, I am just pointing out the fact that if people realize that the PoPo can't or won't stop them it will get bad fast.

My walking distance is 38 miles, 59 by car. My pack will be as light as possible, 30 miles in a day is a fun day. I've done 27 in a day with close to 80 lbs and it was not fun.
 
chaynes68 said:
Assuming you sheltered in place thru the storm how long would you have hung around waiting for food?

You can keep up a 3mph pace for a long time....10 hours of walking gets you 30 miles from the action. People hike the AT with a base pack weight of 12 pounds and do 20 miles in a day on rough trails. A 12 poind pack with a few pounds of food should not cut into your pace very much...OTOH a 40-50 pound pack will.
Click to expand...

If you're using the AT as a model, I backpacked 750 miles of it in 56 days, averaging about 13 miles/day and that's about average for thru-hikers. I hit 20+ miles/day only a couple days on really flat stretches in central Virginia. I never met anyone with a pack less than 30 lbs. Of course I wasn't running for my life either. But if you're humping through the woods with hills carrying ANY pack, I would not bet my life on making 3mph average unless you've been seriously training to do that (e.g. active military)
 
chaynes68 said:
Assuming you sheltered in place thru the storm how long would you have hung around waiting for food?

You can keep up a 3mph pace for a long time....10 hours of walking gets you 30 miles from the action. People hike the AT with a base pack weight of 12 pounds and do 20 miles in a day on rough trails. A 12 poind pack with a few pounds of food should not cut into your pace very much...OTOH a 40-50 pound pack will.
Click to expand...

30 miles a day. In winter. With a pack. After TSHTF. RIIIIIGGGGHHHHHT. I suggest you practice that a little, or are you too busy/not have enough money to do that either?

You realize the guys you're debating this with. (Not me) have actually BEEN where the SHTF? Id do less talking and more listening but that's just me.
 

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