MisterHappy
NES Member
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Close, but not quite....on the right track, though!
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"You dieth, GI," screamed the faggot. [note - from memory ]
Rep points to whoever gives me the source of the above quotes ( besides Gringo - obviously, he knows it)
Curb your ego and drive away.
I think the OP was asking (at least the way I read it) was if by SHOWING, another words, lift your shirt so the dumbass can SEE that you are armed. Not take it out and wave it around.
Or is that the same thing?
Don't be so quick to kill a man just because he has met the minimus critera to do so.
i recall a thread a while back where a guy made a copy of his LTC (or copies) and passed it to a co-worker... maybe his HR manager...
he got canned and charged with something... one the NES Ninja Forum will be along with a link or links to the OP or News Story
After reading through some of the posts here, I think you guys are under the misconception that if you feel you are in danger, you have no choice but to shoot.
Ya, well I would not say i switched...just say I was carrying openly while i was out today/tonight
You also need to ask yourself: What are you going to do if the guy is unimpressed with the holstered gun and continues to walk up to you, unarmed, asking, "What are you going to do, tough guy? Shoot me?". Any actions he takes from that point would be looked at as self-defense on his part, all the jury would hear is that he just wanted to know who gets the parking space and you show a gun. You probably don't want to open that can of worms.
Drive away. Walk away. Run away. The only one making this a deadly force scenario is you.
I just applied for my LTC-A and never plan to carry for protection if I am by myslef. Pepper spray definately. Wife and kids w/me, maybe CCW.
I'd like to see Jesse Cohen respond to this...
Exactly.If you think one of the purposes of your carry gun is to intimidate aggressive people, you are almost certain to get yourself into a lot of trouble.
Just to be pedantic, in MA it is "assault with a dangerous weapon." http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/265-15a.htm
I was not addressing the road rage scenerio presented by the OP, just the act of brandishing in self defense in general. If you are in a road rage situation, you should always drive away, period. As far as brandishing goes, if you pull a gun on a knife weilding assailant, and they immediately drop the knife when the gun comes out, you will not be in any trouble for not shooting and probably charged with murder if you do and there are witnesses. I kind of thought the thread got away from the OP's situation and was just discussing the act of brandishing.
Even police officers are trained that brandishing is part of the escalation of force. they call it "presentation of deadly force" and in many situations they are required to do it before shooting.
There are so many "what if" factors that can be presented, but as a rule, brandishing is not a crime as long as you are in fear for your life.
Yes the police analogy may have been a bad example for the reasons you listed. At the end of the day, like you said, anything can happen in MA. There are too many variables that are outside of your control to predict the outcome. Mainly the way responding police are going to act and what witnesses are going to remember. Quick story:
Back in the early 90's I watched a drunk guy cussing some guy out on a busy street in the middle of the day. The drunk kept advancing on him and the guy was backing up with his hands up trying to diffuse the situation. The drunk grabs the guy (who was smaller than he was) and the poor guy pushes him away. The drunk stumbles and puts his arm through the window of a building cutting himself badly from the look of it where I was standing. Now the drunk is no longer being aggressive and the guy hands him his Tshirt to wrap his arm. Cops and an ambulance show up, witnesses tell police what happened, but drunk guy tells a different story. Victim gets arrested and dragged to jail. Turns out the drunk was an off duty LEO. Some of the cops on here might no the guy.
Moral of the story is that anything could happen no matter how "right" you are. I hope none of us ever have to defend ourselves from violence.
Well, the responding POs in this story are corrupt and biased, and have no right to have their jobs, much less the ability to carry firearms.
After all, YOU witnessed it and if your version is true then the innocent was prosecuted. Did you offer YOUR testimony?
-LEOs are open carrying; the BG knows they are armed- yet the BG is not
deterred by this if it gets to the point where the LEO is drawing down on the BG.
Brandish your phone, tell him you are filming everything including his plate number. Then ask him if he prefers the State or local police.
Here are my 2 cents on the brandishing your gun issue.
First you have to have enough reason to fear that your life is in mortal danger. Some guys think, if a guy is trying to start a fight with me, pushing me around, I'm in mortal danger. Not so. If the guy is coming at you with a knife, yes that would be it. Think about it from the jury's or prosecutor's perspective the morning after.
Second, never take out your firearm unless you're going to shoot somebody with it. My gun never leaves its holster unless I'm about to be terminated. Don't take it out as a warning sign. Put up your hand, tell the guy to stop. If he doesn't, take out the mace (if you don't have mace, escape the situation and call the coppers). The gun is a last resort. If a guy in a truck stops in front of you, grabs a bat, and walks toward you, drive away.
Third, don't put yourself in a situation that you know something bad may happen. For example, don't go to a party if someone that you know who you have issues with is attending. Avoid those situations. I know for me, I used to do events in Boston into the early morning hours, but not anymore. There's a chance, albeit slim, that a situation can arise and I avoid it all together.
Finally as gun owners we have the responsibility to de-escalate every situation we're in. If the guy talks smack, I'll say, sorry, my fault, and leave. If a guy has road rage, I'll slow down and let him pass (if not, call the cops). If my ego gets bruised, so be it. No dick measuring contest is worth the trouble. The worst thing that we can do is lose our temper because our judgment is clouded and chances are regrettable actions may be committed, more ammo for the antigun lobby. Unfortunately I know some guys who are hotheads and have permits, and most guys are very sensitive about their egos. Needless to say I steer clear of those folks. Avoid, de-escalate, leave. I think of my gun as the red button that fires the nukes.
You can't have compassion for someone able and willing to do you harm, for they don't have any compassion for you.
Here are my 2 cents on the brandishing your gun issue.
First you have to have enough reason to fear that your life is in mortal danger. Some guys think, if a guy is trying to start a fight with me, pushing me around, I'm in mortal danger. Not so. If the guy is coming at you with a knife, yes that would be it. Think about it from the jury's or prosecutor's perspective the morning after.
Second, never take out your firearm unless you're going to shoot somebody with it. My gun never leaves its holster unless I'm about to be terminated. Don't take it out as a warning sign. Put up your hand, tell the guy to stop. If he doesn't, take out the mace (if you don't have mace, escape the situation and call the coppers). The gun is a last resort. If a guy in a truck stops in front of you, grabs a bat, and walks toward you, drive away.
Third, don't put yourself in a situation that you know something bad may happen. For example, don't go to a party if someone that you know who you have issues with is attending. Avoid those situations. I know for me, I used to do events in Boston into the early morning hours, but not anymore. There's a chance, albeit slim, that a situation can arise and I avoid it all together.
Finally as gun owners we have the responsibility to de-escalate every situation we're in. If the guy talks smack, I'll say, sorry, my fault, and leave. If a guy has road rage, I'll slow down and let him pass (if not, call the cops). If my ego gets bruised, so be it. No dick measuring contest is worth the trouble. The worst thing that we can do is lose our temper because our judgment is clouded and chances are regrettable actions may be committed, more ammo for the antigun lobby. Unfortunately I know some guys who are hotheads and have permits, and most guys are very sensitive about their egos. Needless to say I steer clear of those folks. Avoid, de-escalate, leave. I think of my gun as the red button that fires the nukes.
I don't see anywhere in the self defense laws that an aggressor needs to be armed.
That's because there are no self defense laws in Mass., aside from the very limited "castle doctrine."
We don't have one of those either. VERY BAD choice of words as the common meaning of "castle doctrine" is nothing like the MGL.
We have an "affirmative defense" law in your home. Means you most likely are prosecuted and YOU bring up the "affirmative defense" to rebut that prosecution. VERY DIFFERENT!
as Len said, excellent advice. i disagree with the bold part, unless your po po.... the "escalation of force" and "rules of engagement" are something i'm all to intimate with... if anyone is stupid enough to insist on a confrontation, they better be my size, smaller or know karate. otherwise, their @$$ is getting shot. it's that simple... i'm not down with mace or any other non-lethal option outside of my size 12 to the rectum. if that doesn't stop them, maybe a size 12 to the family jewels... i dunno..
gun stays out of sight and outta mind, i tend to wanna use my hands while draggin on a Kool to knock some sense into people that act up...
This happens over and over again. I've handled several of these cases.
I'm guessing that your referring to people accused of assault by brandishing a dangerous weapon?
Jesse, what is the usual outcome? Without giving identifying particulars, of course.