Boston PD to get 200 AR's for the street cop

[vellnueve]

I'm impressed!
Lets see if that really follows through.
When we got ours, it was an 8 hour "Patrol Rifle Orientation" and maybe 200 rounds.

I'm wondering where they're going to find 2000 rounds per officer

 

[wahsben]

I thought they were patrol rifles when the police had them and only became assault weapons when in civilian hands.
I'm suprised that the MSM refered to them as assault weapons.

 

[Jaxon]

Watertown has had these for several years now. Yeah, Watertown.. All 4 square miles of it... They mounted above the headrests.

Personally, I agree with the "too much firepower" for urban policing. Very little can't be handled in the city with the standard 12 ga. But then, I'm old school and carried a sxs back in the day.

 

[stinx]

I was at an S&W class with several Boston PD firerrms instructors. THe reason people are grumbling is that if line officers get rifles it will cut into the overtime of some of the swat guys.From what I was told only Swat officers have long arms and usually a good number are out on overtime on the weekends or when its expected to be busy. From what I was told they are S&W M&P rifles and there is push to transition the whole Dept to M&P pistols

 

[icyclefar]

Some police union officials, who are scheduled to discuss the firepower upgrade with department management today, are concerned that the weapons are too powerful for city streets and that they could fall into the wrong hands and be used against police officers and citizens, the officials said.

Coffee ........... check

Donut ............ check

M16 Semi-Automatic Assault Rifle ................. SH!T, where did that thing go?

 

[M1911]

Watertown has had these for several years now. Yeah, Watertown.. All 4 square miles of it... They mounted above the headrests.

Personally, I agree with the "too much firepower" for urban policing. Very little can't be handled in the city with the standard 12 ga. But then, I'm old school and carried a sxs back in the day.

12 gauge 00 buck is not "too much firepower" but a 55 gr. 5.56 is? Huh?

An AR15 is far more accurate and easier to shoot than a 12 gauge, particularly for officers of smaller stature.

 

[stinx]

Its Politics man Politics

 

[wolf223]

although, i wonder is they are M16A1 = full auto or M16A2 = 3rd burst vs. full auto; in addition to semi-auto...





i want one though.. and rack.

 

[vellnueve]

I think M16A1s are the rifles that have been transferred to other PDs across the country, so that would be a reasonable assumption.

 

[terraformer]

Watertown has had these for several years now. Yeah, Watertown.. All 4 square miles of it... They mounted above the headrests.

Personally, I agree with the "too much firepower" for urban policing. Very little can't be handled in the city with the standard 12 ga. But then, I'm old school and carried a sxs back in the day.

I agree. They need to stick to their statements that these are for extraordinary situations (and hopefully light up etch-a-sketchs flipping the bird don't count here ) and not typical policing.

12 gauge 00 buck is not "too much firepower" but a 55 gr. 5.56 is? Huh?

An AR15 is far more accurate and easier to shoot than a 12 gauge, particularly for officers of smaller stature.

Distance and rate of fire would be one reason. But the bigger reason for me at least is I grew up in a non-militarized country. The US has always had the military separate from the general government and when you did see military it was in uniform, but not "at work".

It wasn't until traveling to Mexico and then Greece where I came into contact with armored personnel carriers with M240s mounted on the roof on a city street with the word police on it. I want to keep this country prepared and strong, but true to it's roots of relying on the decency of individuals to stand up for what is right and to care for their own. The police/government/military are a backstop, not a first line of defense. Our founding fathers were very keen on preventing creeping militarism. We should heed that concern.

ETA: I don't have an issue with them being issued. I just hope they are used in accordance to the excuses proffered by smarmy bureaucrats on why they are needed.

 

[Jaxon]

12 gauge 00 buck is not "too much firepower" but a 55 gr. 5.56 is? Huh?

An AR15 is far more accurate and easier to shoot than a 12 gauge, particularly for officers of smaller stature.

In references to downrange, which is obviously much farther for the .223 than the 00.. So, if the 00 is more, then why are they moving to the .223?

And yes, the AR is easier to shoot. Is that a reason to change? I still think the .223 is overkill (so to speak) for urban work. At least Police urban work. YMMV

 

[M1911]

I agree. They need to stick to their statements that these are for extraordinary situations (and hopefully light up etch-a-sketchs flipping the bird don't count here ) and not typical policing.

If they are for "extraordinary situations" then they won't be there in time. A typical active shooter situation is over in minutes. If every patrol car has a rifle, then there is a chance that a responding officer will be there in time with the necessary equipment. If only a patrol supervisor has a rifle or the officer needs to get particular permission from higher ups to use the rifle, then it will all be over by then.

 

[terraformer]

If they are for "extraordinary situations" then they won't be there in time. A typical active shooter situation is over in minutes. If every patrol car has a rifle, then there is a chance that a responding officer will be there in time with the necessary equipment. If only a patrol supervisor has a rifle or the officer needs to get particular permission from higher ups to use the rifle, then it will all be over by then.

I never suggested not deploying them with every car. I also never said an active shooter scenario is ordinary. We don't disagree here. But if they are drawing them on a regular basis at robbery suspects or walking the streets with them I start to have a problem. I used to be able to go to NYC and see cops standing around K'bitzing. Now I go there and they are k'bitzing with ARs and in tactical gear. Either way they would not have been able to stop 9/11 from happening. This is security theater of the worst kind. It is anesthetizing the populace to complete military control. The military are not bad people, but we have a strong break between civilian and military for a reason.

ETA: I want to stress something. People in the military are not bad nor am I suggesting otherwise. This embedded distrust of the institution (embedded in the 3rd Amendment so they must have thought it important) was never borne of a distrust of the individuals in the institution generally. It is a distrust of the abuse one determined and not trustworthy individual can do when given substantial and unchecked power. The military to be effective needs to operate outside of the confines of typical political structure. In order to make that happen, one needs to separate the two and make one (military) subordinate to the other.

 

[EddieCoyle]

But then, I'm old school and carried a sxs back in the day.

Was it the same one you carried during the War Between The States?

 

[M1911]

I'm out of this thread. Knee-jerk, cop-bashing, "assault rifles are OK for me but bad for cops" lunacy. Gets my blood pressure high.

 

[mikem317]

Do they have to pay the $200 federal transfer fee for each rifle?

 

[terraformer]

Where in NYC? NYC police deploy side arms only, and have Tactical Response teams in vans every 10-15 blocks ready to respond with long guns.

Usually mid-town near Penn and MSG. I have seen them down in Battery park too lately. Admittedly I don't walk up to them and check if they are NYPD, Transit Authority or other so it can be any of the multitude of agencies in NYC. It could also be that these guys are supposed to hunker in their vans and don't. NYPD isn't the most disciplined PD around. The "rank and file" has a pretty healthy disdain for those above them. I doubt that alone is uncommon, but I suspect the extent to which it is true and the level of it may be less common. But I am surmising there.

Was it the same one you carried during the War Between The States?

 

[wolf223]

I'm out of this thread. Knee-jerk, cop-bashing, "assault rifles are OK for me but bad for cops" lunacy. Gets my blood pressure high.

+1

the punks have em... why can't the police???

 

[wolf223]

also, we still lived in NYC when the cops had wheel guns and the drug dealers had glock fotays and uzi's.. this was in the 80's - i saw my first dead body by the age of 5... on the street full of lead.

then they upgraded to Beretta's (i think)... by then we'd moved to MA...

the police should be equipped... i'm not saying rolling around in APC's w / MK19's pointed at us w / a guy in the turret... but c'mom? a eFin M16???

look at what happened in Cali... two a**h***s in full body armor, how long did it take to take them down?

how long does it take for one of them "special tactical" teams to show up when SHTF?

... just saying.

 

[terraformer]

I'm out of this thread. Knee-jerk, cop-bashing, "assault rifles are OK for me but bad for cops" lunacy. Gets my blood pressure high.

Really, how is saying we want to live in a non militaristic society cop bashing? How the f*** does not wanting to run a gauntlet of rifles walking down the street cop bashing? (and no, I am not an afraid sheeple) This has nothing to do with cops. It has everything to do with policy. I never said the guns were good for us, not for them. Jaxon was a cop, is he cop bashing? WTF?

You can't lionize cops/soldiers then hate your government. You people have to pick one and stick with it. I choose to say that cops/military are people to, no better, no worse than the general population and as such, bad apples happen. Treating them differently leads to abuses by those bad apples. Treating them the same is the only fair way to go.

 

[terraformer]

the police should be equipped... i'm not saying rolling around in APC's w / MK19's pointed at us w / a guy in the turret... but c'mom? a eFin M16???

OK, How many times do I have to say this. I never said don't deploy them! Oh, and what is next is them rolling in APCs with guys in the turret. Walk out of Athens airport and you will likely have one of those in the face.

look at what happened in Cali... two a**h***s in full body armor, how long did it take to take them down?

And if they just reached into the trunk, on the ceiling, in the car it would be there. Again, policy.

Those are DHS / Transit Authority agents. Not NYPD.

Effectively the difference is??? They're agents of the government.

 

[Mass-diver]

Interesting thread, I was not aware of the widespread practice of department being issued surplus rifles. I'm surprised that S&W wasn't able to work out a deal?

While I do not feel particularly strongly about the issue, I don't really see the need for beat cops to have rifles. I don't really many scenarios where they need to take a shot at distances longer than pistol or shotgun ranges. There is no way the average uniform is going to get the training required to engage in complex, long range shootouts. Isn't that what SWAT is for?

 

[vellnueve]

You can't lionize cops/soldiers then hate your government. You people have to pick one and stick with it. I choose to say that cops/military are people to, no better, no worse than the general population and as such, bad apples happen. Treating them differently leads to abuses. Treating the same is the only fair way to go.

You can lament the system without stripping officers and soldiers of the tools they need to do their jobs properly. Any licensed citizen, and in fact most people across the country, can carry a locked rifle in their car. I see no reason why police officers shouldn't especially when said rifles are free, given from stocks of surplused, obselete rifles.

Interesting thread, I was not aware of the widespread practice of department being issued surplus rifles. I'm surprised that S&W wasn't able to work out a deal?

Hard to beat free.

 

[terraformer]

You can lament the system without stripping officers and soldiers of the tools they need to do their jobs properly. Any licensed citizen, and in fact most people across the country, can carry a locked rifle in their car. I see no reason why police officers shouldn't especially when said rifles are free, given from stocks of surplused, obselete rifles.

At 10:34 AM before this shit storm occurred I said:

ETA: I don't have an issue with them being issued. I just hope they are used in accordance to the excuses proffered by smarmy bureaucrats on why they are needed.

I NEVER said do not deploy them. EVER. I said they should used in accordance with the reasons they are supposedly getting them. Which is terrorists and extra-ordinary events.

But one interesting note, in MA we can't carry locked and loaded rifles.

 

[Palladin]

Do they have to pay the $200 federal transfer fee for each rifle?

They're semiauto, not full auto.

but the Boston proposal is to arm them the weapons for semiautomatic operation.

I think they're getting AR's and the media is calling them M16's

 

[wolf223]

At 10:34 AM before this shit storm occurred I said:


I NEVER said do not deploy them. EVER. I said they should used in accordance with the reasons they are supposedly getting them. Which is terrorists and extra-ordinary events.

But one interesting note, in MA we can't carry locked and loaded rifles.

breathe t-dog...

what's in 2011?

i'll run to canada..

 

[Gonzo]

breathe t-dog...

what's in 2011?

i'll run to canada..

The wind-up to 2012. Book of Revelations, Mayan calendar, Nostradamus,etc. The ENDGAME man.

 

[Jaxon]

Was it the same one you carried during the War Between The States?

Yeah, I knew that would get a comment... What can I say.. I traded my Springfield for a coachgun?

 

[wolf223]

Terminator - Salvation

Sky NET...

we need to start secretly making M203's for the Alien vs Predator invasion...

 

[oilburner]

This is all great and everything but you know what I thought when my NY State Trooper brother inlaw (a really cool, 2nd amendment supporting guy) told me the troopers were getting ARs to carry in the cars? It was about the time you started hearing about agencies preparing for political unrest, about the time the report came out about how WE were all considered potential domestic terrorists, and here he is telling me the cops are getting EBRs. Do I think they should have them, well, in this day and age, yes. But so should we. But it is unnerving to think that in a time when the government is outright saying we are the enemy and they prepare for "unrest" that they arm themselves with what they want to take from us (and we want them for the same reasons they do). Open your eyes to the bigger picture, it's not pretty. Foil hats on my mark...