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Boston cop shot-Interesting angle

News Shooter

News Shooter

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The story in the Globe (Which I can't post because I refuse to register there)
said a trooper shot the suspect several times, but the guy didn't go down and they didn't even realize it until later. Now he's in critical condition. The story said it was because of adrenaline.

That's pretty scary. The cop is OK by the way

Here's the Herald's version

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=1002895
 
Someone who knows the suspect said he’s been caught up in the city’s violence. Franklin, who turned 21 Tuesday, was shot in the leg earlier this year on Olney Street, and had just been released from the South Bay Correctional Center.
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Caught up in the city's violence? Does that sound to you like they're making him out to be a victim.

I'd say it's more like... He's part of the city's violence problem... There is a beautiful gated community in Walpole that would be the perfect future residence for this guy... I think name is "MCI Cedar Junction"
 
In another thread Pilgrim posted about "What would you do if...", we talked about people saying they would rush to defend others with their KelTecs and Black Widow pistols.

I said then that when the adrenaline is flowing, little guns and even big guns can be ineffective. This proves my point. It's common for people who have been wounded by gunfire to not be incapacitated, or as in this case, they may not even realize they are shot.
 
News Shooter said:
The story in the Globe (Which I can't post because I refuse to register there)
said a trooper shot the suspect several times, but the guy didn't go down and they didn't even realize it until later. Now he's in critical condition. The story said it was because of adrenaline.
http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=1002895
Click to expand...


The BG could well have been on drugs.....but it's still amazing that some people can take multiple rounds and live.

Over the years, as a nurse at Boston Medical Center, I've taken care of a number of gunshot victims, I remember one guy who have been hit at least 6 times in the chest and abdomen by the Feds and lived. With handguns, there's just no sure thing, that's why you need to keeping shooting until the threat is gone. It's also why it's a good idea to have a shotgun in your home.
 
sksguns said:
No offense to the cops out there putting their lives on the line against these scumbags, but it's about time they started taking the right guns of the streets by going after these bad guys rather than issueing more restrictive gun laws against the legal gun owners and holding useless buyback programs.
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That's what these guys were doing, trying to get bad guys with guns off the street. Please save the rhetoric for a different thread.

MSP uses Sigs in .40 S&W. Boston uses Glocks in .40 S&W.

Gary
 
In an effort to get back on topic

I guess I amazed that life-threatening wounds can go unnoticed

"Franklin originally told officers he had no injuries. When he was being booked at the C-11 station in Dorchester, officers discovered his wounds, and he was taken to Beth Israel, police said.

"It was adrenaline" that blocked his awareness of being wounded, a police official said."
 
"A reputed gangbanger pulled out a Glock and shot Boston police gang unit Officer Stephen Romano in the chest when he was asked for his ID during a gang sweep last night, police said. "

Sensationlist journalism at it finest. To read the first sentence, you'd think the kid just pulled out and started shooting as soon as the officer opened his mouth.

"They stopped them near the Marshall School. They thought they were going to do a hit on Crown Path,” a police source said, referring to a well-known walkway that is a hotbed of gang activity. “When they got out, the kid hopped on a bicycle. Officers started to chase him, and he turned around and fired.”

The police source said the suspect was about five feet away when he pulled the trigger."

Oh, ok...so there was a chase involved. Still no justification to shoot, but it's funny how they try to put such a spin on everything...oh a "source" said the kid was laughing at the scene...riiiiiight. I love how people will discredit one media outlet that they feel is untrustworthy because of a "liberal slant" and throw their trust into another, equally untrustworthy source because the slant is "conservative" or what have you...if you want to know what's happening in the streets and why, go volunteer in a shelter or youth program, go find out first hand what these kids are thinking and the reasons behind why they're acting out like this. The Globe and Herald aren't in the business of reporting the truth, they're in the business of selling newspapers...don't forget that, even when you think you agree with what was written.

And just like regulating gun laws isn't going to make a difference, neither is just throwing these kids into jail, basically the college of the criminal world. How can you see the sense in one case and not in the other? The only way to stop this violence is to tackle the reasons behind it, the poverty, the racial/ethnic/economic discrimination, the disproportionate distribution of resources, the condition and quality of the public school system, the quality and availability of healh care, a halt to the outsourcing of jobs to other countries that would ordinarily be available to kids going to college here...etc.

There ARE no easy, one step solutions, don't let these media vultures turn you into a simpleton...it's high time we opened our eyes.



Prepare for the latest kneejerk reaction from the dimwits...
 
I would have thought a 40S&W would be more than enough to stop most people. Isn't it supposed to have the best "stopping power" out of all popular handgun calibers? The guy must have been pumped with adrenaline.

A shotgun might make sense, but I would imagine they're not the easiest weapon to carry daily. Basically, it's unlikely a cop would get one out on most day-to-day situations.

Last time I was shopping for ammo I came across some 40S&W caliber cartriges where the bullet was hollow-point with a bunch of small pelllets sealed by a wax cover into the hollow. I wonder if they have better stopping power?

And just like regulating gun laws isn't going to make a difference, neither is just throwing these kids into jail, basically the college of the criminal world. How can you see the sense in one case and not in the other? The only way to stop this violence is to tackle the reasons behind it, the poverty, the racial/ethnic/economic discrimination, the disproportionate distribution of resources, the condition and quality of the public school system, the quality and availability of healh care, a halt to the outsourcing of jobs to other countries that would ordinarily be available to kids going to college here...etc.
Click to expand...

I for one agree, at least with the sentiment of your argument. The issues of gang and youth violence aren't going to be fixed with simple solutions like: gun control, tougher/longer prison terms, "wars on"-(insert noun or verb here). It's going to take many things, and lots of soul searching.
 
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Major Blood

And just like regulating gun laws isn't going to make a difference, neither is just throwing these kids into jail, basically the college of the criminal world. How can you see the sense in one case and not in the other? The only way to stop this violence is to tackle the reasons behind it, the poverty, the racial/ethnic/economic discrimination, the disproportionate distribution of resources, the condition and quality of the public school system, the quality and availability of healh care, a halt to the outsourcing of jobs to other countries that would ordinarily be available to kids going to college here...etc.
Click to expand...

So, he illegally possessed a firearm and shot a police officer, and sending him to jail isn't the answer? If we allow "kids" to break the law, whether is robbery, drugs, violence, etc, and don't punish them, we're teaching them all that it's OK and there will be no consequences for their actions! Responsibility needs to be taught, and that includes responsibility for their own actions. Break the law, go to jail. Simple as that.

Everything else you mentioned would be great to change, but it's simply not going to happen. It seems that the vast majority of people, and especially the politicians on both sides of the aisle, don't concern themselves with these issues.
 
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dwarven1 said:
If true, sounds like the BPD has a real problem with lack of respect.
Click to expand...

Ross, don't think it's JUST BPD that has the problem. It's every police department and what we consider "civilized society" that has the problem.

These criminals have learned the lessons that they have been taught very well. It's always someone else's fault, they're victims of a racist society, the courts are a joke, the schools are a bigger joke, work if for suckers, it's good to scam the system, laws don't matter.

Have that drilled into you by your peers and your experience every day from the time you can walk and see how you turn out. This guy figures his court appointed lawyer will cut a deal that will get him a short stretch in prison and then it's back to business. While he's in prison, his gang will take care of him.

Social programs won't help this guy, it's way too late for that.

If society wants to stop this behavior then we have to remove the incentives that make it appear attractive.

Gary
 
Hawgleg44 said:
So, he illegally possessed a firearm and shot a police officer, and sending him to jail isn't the answer? If we allow "kids" to break the law, whether is robbery, drugs, violence, etc, and don't punish them, we're teaching them all that it's OK and there will be no consequences for their actions! Responsibility needs to be taught, and that includes responsibility for their own actions. Break the law, go to jail. Simple as that.

Everything else you mentioned would be great to change, but it's simply not going to happen. It seems that the vast majority of people, and especially the politicians on both sides of the aisle, don't concern themselves with these issues.
Click to expand...

No, I'm not saying that in this particular case that this kid doesn't deserve jail time, what I'm saying is that in the long term, that's not the answer. Given that the jails have been overcrowded for years, and the crime rate is escalating still, it's obvious that the "lock em up and throw away the key" approach isn't working. Do you think jail, where these kids will get 3 meals a day, a warm rent free-bed, increased "respect" on the street and the potential to network with others to increase their knowledge of criminal activity is really a detriment to some kid that lives in roach infested projects, often with no real guidance or sense of security or hope whatsoever?

As far as responsibility, well, that's a lead by example trait...and in this case, it's not really about responsibility: that kid is going down, he's not trying to rat his way out of it. No, in this case it's more of a matter of respect. These kids don't respect cops. And it's not just a matter of them not respecting them because they're cops, it's a matter of the history between these communities and the police, particularly in Boston. A long, dark history that isn't easily erased by an empty Menino speach or too-little-too-late "community outreach" programs.

As far as your attitude about things changing, well...don't take this as a personal attack, but that was the most jelly-spined, cowardly statement I've read on this board yet. A lot of politicians don't seem too hellbent on allowing us our second amendment rights, yet I'm sure you've never laid down like that on that issue. That's the problem, and the reason things don't change...nobody wants to fight for the overall benefit of an improved system, everybody picks their little battles based on what would benefit them and what they want, and any other issue they take the Swiss approach...pathetic.

What happened to this country? [sad2]
 
whats wrong with this country is scumbags like that arent publicly hanged and made an example of.

Respect? so shooting a cop is going to get him respected by the cops? More like he's perpetuating the problem or IS the problem.

So what if he grew up in a scummy neighborhood, wasnt coddled as a kid, was too cool for school and decides to be a the scourge of society? Did his environment did make him buy an illegal firearm and shoot a cop. Hell no. He did. His choice PERIOD. There are lots of decent people living in the same conditions, they didnt do what he did. People have choices to make in life, the environment may limit opportunities, but if he choses not to grasp any of them, well I guess my tax dollars will buy him a nice cot in a cement cage or support his sorry butt via welfare when he gets out.

Cops, people in public service, they put their life on the line everyday, BY CHOICE, to defend even scumbags like this. So who isnt getting respect?

I'm tired of people making excuses for these low lifes and blaming the environment or anything else for making them do what they do. It's disgusting.
 
Major Blood said:
No, I'm not saying that in this particular case that this kid doesn't deserve jail time, what I'm saying is that in the long term, that's not the answer. Given that the jails have been overcrowded for years, and the crime rate is escalating still, it's obvious that the "lock em up and throw away the key" approach isn't working. [sad2]
Click to expand...



Thats why we need eye for eye- capital punishment.
Keep the jails open for the others that don't fail into this catagory.
I don't need to fund one more meal for any more scumbag murderers, rapists, etc. Ill even supply the first box of ammo to clear the system a bit. I just know with our judical systems "no ones fault" attitude it will never happen.

Im just waiting to read the "he was such a nice boy" article to top it all off for us.
 
This short thread is actually quite interesting and defines the problem with this issue in society today. Sure, the kid is scum and deserves to spend the rest of his life in a 4x8 foot cell as "Big Bubba's" plaything. As other posters have said, there is NO excuse for embarking on a life of violent crime like these people do. No excuse at all.

Having said that the population at large appears to get split into 2 camps: The "lock 'em all up and throw away the key" group and the "we must try to understand and help these people" (and the gun-grabbers form a third group). The fact is that both groups are correct (not the gun-grabbers), but they don't want to see that. Certainly these people need to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. We can certainly help by taking "victimless" criminals out of jail, that'll free some prison space. However, when we have vast areas of our cities populated by kids who have zero opportunity, craptastic education, sh*tty parents, no dads (not trying to knock single parents here) and abject poverty we shouldn't be suprised that we get sh*tty kids with no respect. It's also no suprise that these kids join gangs - those gangs become the first and only place where they are shown any kind of friendship and respect.

The solution isn't an easy one, in fact the problem is that there isn't a single solution at all. Better social programs, improved education, a stint in the armed services (aka national service) and youth mentoring will all help. Unfortunately I'm not holding my breath - it's easier for politicians to have it as a wedge issue and make stupid, vague promises like "getting tough on crime".

/Hope the cop gets better soon.....
 
Major Blood said:
As far as your attitude about things changing, well...don't take this as a personal attack, but that was the most jelly-spined, cowardly statement I've read on this board yet.
Click to expand...

I know this post is going to get zapped immediately, but I hope it's up long enough for you to see it. Jelly spined? f*** off. I've spent my time out on the street getting a**h***s like this behind bars. I have no sympathy, unlike you, for people who knowingly break the law. They do belong behind bars, period. If you want to go out and give them hugs and kisses, be my guest.
 
Hawgleg44 said:
...in E. Mass, all a Trooper has to do is put in a letter requesting a shotgun for his cruiser, and he gets it within a few weeks, even new recruits out of the academy.

...can't get anything but their issued Sig P226 .40 DAK's, no matter how many letters they write. Here, they get the excuse that it's too expensive to arm every Trooper with a shotgun,

...

Shotguns? Absolutely, every Trooper should be issued one, along with many other pieces of life saving equipment they need, especially new holsters!...
Click to expand...

How much is a Sig? I can't imagine a Remington 870 or Mossberg or even Rossi pump shotgun being more expensive.

The thing I'm not sure about is whether I could even picture a cop getting out of the car with a shotgun in the city. Just doesn't seem to come to mind.
 
benster said:
whats wrong with this country is scumbags like that arent publicly hanged and made an example of.

Respect? so shooting a cop is going to get him respected by the cops? More like he's perpetuating the problem or IS the problem.

So what if he grew up in a scummy neighborhood, wasnt coddled as a kid, was too cool for school and decides to be a the scourge of society? Did his environment did make him buy an illegal firearm and shoot a cop. Hell no. He did. His choice PERIOD. There are lots of decent people living in the same conditions, they didnt do what he did. People have choices to make in life, the environment may limit opportunities, but if he choses not to grasp any of them, well I guess my tax dollars will buy him a nice cot in a cement cage or support his sorry butt via welfare when he gets out.

Cops, people in public service, they put their life on the line everyday, BY CHOICE, to defend even scumbags like this. So who isnt getting respect?

I'm tired of people making excuses for these low lifes and blaming the environment or anything else for making them do what they do. It's disgusting.
Click to expand...

Hey, I'm all for it...as long as the scumbag CEO white collar criminals that bilk thousands of retirees out of their pensions every time we turn around are hanging right there beside them...as long as corupt cops that get caught tampering with evidence to make an charge stick are swinging too...and how about judges, DAs and yes, even juries in cases where someone was found guilty, spent half their life in jail, then were cleared by DNA evidence, let's get them fitted for nooses too...but that's never the case is it?

As far as the respect thing, no of course shooting cops isn't going to garner respect from cops, that's not what I was implying. As far as cops getting respected, it would help if every time they came into one of those high-risk communities it wasn't to arrest someone or shake every one in sight down because they "fit the description"...it's people like you that had no idea that police brutality even existed because it had never and would never happen to you. Most of mainstream America thought it was just "minorities whining" until the King video, then everybody gasped in astonishment. And those cops were coddled, had the trial moved to a cop-friendly jurisdiction to ensure the jurors were sympathetic, and were exonerated despite video taped evidence of those disgraces to the uniform going WAY above and beyond what would be considered justifiable force...and for every King tape we see, there are a thousand cases you don't hear about...unless you're living in those environments. So you tell me, where is this respect for the justice system and police officers supposed to come from? And I know brutality wasn't a factor in this case, I'm just illustrating where most of the attitudes towards cops and the law in general come from, and it's not just the criminal element...I've been profiled more times than I can count, stopped for no reason...I was even held in the middle of the street at gunpoint with those spotlights shining on me so someone that was assaulted could sit in the cruiser and "identify" me as the shooter, whom I was later told by friends on the force AND relatives of the victim was Asian, a description given to the responding officers at the time, and one that I don't fit...if you can't say the same then what you say in the matter holds no weight, you won't understand. Again, not defending the guy or making excuses...I just don't have the luxury of living life and looking at these kinds of issues with blinders on because I've EXPERIENCED the dark side.

And if you think that kid woke up that morning and said "I'm going to shoot a cop today", I'd suggest the decaf. Yeah, he made a choice. He made a choice to do what he had to do to survive in his enviornment, which involved joining a gang and getting a gun for protection, probably selling drugs or whatever for money, all bad choices yes, and ones that put him on the path to shooting that cop, but it's not a straight shot and it's definitely not cut and dry. PERIOD.
 

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