Be careful stating names of online vendors

[jpm]

the crackdown on mail order ammo here really went into high gear after Mucko McDermott shot up his office in Wakefield back in 2000. It came out that he bought the ammo from Cheaper than Dirt and I believe the AG went after them or tried to. I remember because I used to buy ammo from them and after that came out in evidence, they stopped selling anything gun related to us in MA and referenced that case when questioned about it. So that's why the standard letter threatening them with legal action if the items people buy are used in a crime is worded that way.

Thanks alot Mucko.

p.s. a good friend of mine I grew up with was in that office that day and was lucky to be at the other end of the hallway when the shooting began and he got out safely.

 

[LoginName]

So, the AG was the one responsible for banning Cheaper Than Dirt from conducting business in MA.

I guess every cloud does have a silver lining after all.

 

[Len-2A Training]

The greatest increase in crime lately has been through the use of computers, including identity theft , phone scams, etc. I doubt the MA AG is going after this countries distributors of keyboards, monitors, database software, and the like with admonishments about these wares being used in the commission of crime. They aren't going after car dealers with warnings the litigation they would face if someone drove to endanger in a car sold off their lot. I see lots of hoodies and hats being worn in robberies. Doubtful that the clothing stores are being harassed.

IMHO, I think that the Attorneys General of the other states, particularly NH should file suit against the Commonwealth in federal court. The businesses in other states should not be bullied by MA.

+1 Rep - Now there is an idea I had not read here before and it might even work, especially if a few different states attorneys general did a class action against the MA AG for interfering with commercial commerce and hurting businesses in their states.

I wish she would just have a massive stroke and drop dead. Stupid ****

So do I . . . but she'd only be replaced by someone equally as bad or worse. As a matter of fact, her Asst AG is running for her seat, so she'd just slide over and take it anyway then run after being already entrenched.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

This is very interesting as it's about the first recent instance I've seen of the AG's office attempting to push this agenda.

 

[SKS Ray]

This is very interesting as it's about the first recent instance I've seen of the AG's office attempting to push this agenda.

It still goes on. Just last year a popular distributor who I won't name used to sell ammo to Massachusetts residents as long as you had both copies of an 03 FFL and firearms license on file with them. After they were contacted by the AG's office they stopped.
AFAIK they still honor 03 FFLs but who knows how long that will last.

 

[mikeyp]

+1 Rep - Now there is an idea I had not read here before and it might even work, especially if a few different states attorneys general did a class action against the MA AG for interfering with commercial commerce and hurting businesses in their states

May be worth reaching out to some places in areas like Texas that don't care about the Mass AG and try to get the ball rolling for that

 

[99105]

Consider all of the NH dealers that ask for ID for an ammo purchase. When they see a MA drivers license they ask to see a LTC. Is it because an LTC is required to buy or sell ammo in their state?
NO.
It is because the MA AG will financially abuse them in litigation for not following the laws that apply within MA. It is less financially crippling to cave in and follow laws that do not apply to them than it is to defend themselves against the financial, manpower and time resources at the disposal of the MA AG office.

 

[warwickben]

+1 Rep - Now there is an idea I had not read here before and it might even work, especially if a few different states attorneys general did a class action against the MA AG for interfering with commercial commerce and hurting businesses in their states.




So do I . . . but she'd only be replaced by someone equally as bad or worse. As a matter of fact, her Asst AG is running for her seat, so she'd just slide over and take it anyway then run after being already entrenched.

Any one wanna call Texas?.......

 

[Bison]

Consider all of the NH dealers that ask for ID for an ammo purchase. When they see a MA drivers license they ask to see a LTC. Is it because an LTC is required to buy or sell ammo in their state?
NO.
It is because the MA AG will financially abuse them in litigation for not following the laws that apply within MA. It is less financially crippling to cave in and follow laws that do not apply to them than it is to defend themselves against the financial, manpower and time resources at the disposal of the MA AG office.

I do not understand how this works. The business and transaction are out of state. Same for mail order. Why would the business not just ignore whatever MA sent them? How does MA have any legal standing in another state?

Or, to put it in other words. Say I own a business in TX and I ship ammo to MA. Why would I care what MA writes or threatens? Why would I care if MA sued my business in MA? So what? What does it change for the business? Why would the business even need to do anything?

Keep taking orders and keep shipping ... how does anything MA does in MA change that?

 

[99105]

Right or wrong the MA AG office would file a suit against you in MA that you must pay to defend.

IANAL but doesn't the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution give the power of regulating commerce between states to CONGRESS, and not to the MA AG?
Did she promote herself?

 

[slap shot]

Right or wrong the MA AG office would file a suit against you in MA that you must pay to defend.

IANAL but doesn't the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution give the power of regulating commerce between states in the hands of CONGRESS, and not in the hands of the MA AG?
Did she promote herself?

She's nothing but a bully that realizes how expensive it is for a small company to defend themselves. They choose to comply...

 

[rawlus]

A friend of mine posted a warning sticker off the back of a TV set. Turns out in parts of CA a TV over 40" is prohibited due to excessive size and it's use of electricity.

Seems a bit more insane than the ammo issues. Although the ammo issues are also insane.

 

[Bison]

Right or wrong the MA AG office would file a suit against you in MA that you must pay to defend.

Why must the company defend itself? Why would the company care if it loses in MA? It does not exist in MA. What could MA do? I do not understand how this works.

 

[slap shot]

Why must the company defend itself? Why would the company care if it loses in MA? It does not exist in MA. What could MA do? I do not understand how this works.

That's the crazy part. I've asked a few companies, large and small, and no one has ever given me anything more than "it's our policy". To that, what can you really say?

 

[ColdDayInHell]

That's the crazy part. I've asked a few companies, large and small, and no one has ever given me anything more than "it's our policy". To that, what can you really say?

Afraid of big bad Martha. **** her. She needs a long walk off a short pier.

 

[travis]

I really dont care what people talk about on a web forum. All i am saying is just be mindful of making any comments that can lead Martha and all of her cronies to identifying what companies ship to Mass. This state sucks enough as it is for firearm owners, lets not have it suck anymore.

Yep tuck you're manhood between you're legs and hide. Hide what we do and whom we spend our money with as if WE are doing something wrong. Talk in hushed tones in the back of a dark room so those who seek to make a person doing something LEGAL are the ones persecuted. By all means hide from society like the insane people the left make us out to be.

Hey why not close all the ranges so they can not see us shoot?

Why not stop selling ammo and firearms in stores so they do not have to be seen?

Why not ban all firearms from TV so we never have to look at them?

Why no shut this and all gun forums down so they can not read our opinions or anything other thoughts we may decide to write?

Why not just ban all firearms so we do not need to talk about this?

O wait! WE are AMERICANS!!!!! We have the RIGHT to do what we with within the law no matter what anybody THINKS! One day ALL and I mean every person who truly believes in the Constitution will have to stand up and say no this is wrong we will not give up any rights. We refuse to give up anything so YOU can gain perceived safety in you're liberal life. The only reason reason these people have the ability to do something so stupid is because to many of us have gave up a little here and a little there to "keep the peace". Enough people just enough!!

 

[Len-2A Training]

Why must the company defend itself? Why would the company care if it loses in MA? It does not exist in MA. What could MA do? I do not understand how this works.

Since I serve lawsuits on a regular basis I can tell you that most that I serve are from outside MA . . . served to MA people and/or businesses.

If the AG sues and the person/company is not represented in court, they lose by default . . . this is how the system operates.

The MA AG takes the court judgment and sends it to a law firm in the state that the business operates in and has a local judge approve the judgment for local collection (sorry I can't recall the proper terminology right now). It can now be handed to a local Constable, Sheriff or process server with orders to seize and auction off property if necessary to pay the judgment and legal fees.

That's why those non-MA companies care and change their policy such as not to do business with MA folks!

 

[leewongfei]

Yep tuck you're manhood between you're legs and hide. Hide what we do and whom we spend our money with as if WE are doing something wrong. Talk in hushed tones in the back of a dark room so those who seek to make a person doing something LEGAL are the ones persecuted. By all means hide from society like the insane people the left make us out to be.

Hey why not close all the ranges so they can not see us shoot?

Why not stop selling ammo and firearms in stores so they do not have to be seen?

Why not ban all firearms from TV so we never have to look at them?

Why no shut this and all gun forums down so they can not read our opinions or anything other thoughts we may decide to write?

Why not just ban all firearms so we do not need to talk about this?

O wait! WE are AMERICANS!!!!! We have the RIGHT to do what we with within the law no matter what anybody THINKS! One day ALL and I mean every person who truly believes in the Constitution will have to stand up and say no this is wrong we will not give up any rights. We refuse to give up anything so YOU can gain perceived safety in you're liberal life. The only reason reason these people have the ability to do something so stupid is because to many of us have gave up a little here and a little there to "keep the peace". Enough people just enough!!

Its not about running from whats happening. You have no idea whats happening behind the scenes with this. Do me a favor and go read "The art of war". Ill post an amazon link for you, its on sale for $8.88.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-War-S...qid=1391746997&sr=8-1&keywords=the+art+of+war

Just because i am asking people to be mindful, doesnt mean that i am asking people to give up. Posting something like this has put awareness out there that the AG is still a bitch and combs these forums looking for crap to go after. Fighting this fight doesnt mean running into a fight "guns blazing". Fighting this fight is making the small victories count. Being able to buy things online is a right that we have. Not letting the AG find out what retailers are still shipping to mass is a victory, even if YOU dont see it that way.

Read the book if you have the time. It will give you some better insight on what people and groups like Comm2a are really doing.

 

[Gaffer]

I didn't read all 11 pages of posts so this may have already been addressed, but why with the money that Mass. folks seem to have, doesn't someone bring a lawsuit against the state and the AG. It is hard to believe that the Mass gun owners cannot band together and stop this foolishness. It would also seem to me that said gun owners could not, if they really tried, to heal the riff between gun owners and the NRA and get some power back for you all.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

I didn't read all 11 pages of posts so this may have already been addressed, but why with the money that Mass. folks seem to have, doesn't someone bring a lawsuit against the state and the AG. It is hard to believe that the Mass gun owners cannot band together and stop this foolishness. It would also seem to me that said gun owners could not, if they really tried, to heal the riff between gun owners and the NRA and get some power back for you all.

Who do you mean by "someone"? If you're talking about yourself, another gun owner, GOAL, or Comm2A, the reason is standing. If you're talking about an out-of-state retailer the answer is: "WTF am I wasting my time and money for here?"

 

[TOM1960]

You think that is the only way they can get your financial information?

Mike

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

I don't want my firearms/ammo purchases tied into my credit card. Firearms and ammo are purchased with cash on barreltop. Always has, always will be. LenS also pointed out the insurance cost. Good point. Saved the cost of insurance, as well as shipping/handling and MA tax by shopping in NH.

 

[Bison]

Since I serve lawsuits on a regular basis I can tell you that most that I serve are from outside MA . . . served to MA people and/or businesses.

If the AG sues and the person/company is not represented in court, they lose by default . . . this is how the system operates.

The MA AG takes the court judgment and sends it to a law firm in the state that the business operates in and has a local judge approve the judgment for local collection (sorry I can't recall the proper terminology right now). It can now be handed to a local Constable, Sheriff or process server with orders to seize and auction off property if necessary to pay the judgment and legal fees.

That's why those non-MA companies care and change their policy such as not to do business with MA folks!

Len:

Thanks for the details. It certainly seems like a system that could be abused. So, the AG would seek monetary damages or a fine of some kind. Then, that judgment can be used in the home state of the business to go after them. Sneaky!

I wonder if a state like Kansas would entertain a law that makes that process illegal in relationship to 2A cases? Kansas has already shown a willingness to fight Big Brother. I wonder how it would work against Little Sister?

 

[Len-2A Training]

I don't think that each state or court can legally pick and choose what court orders they will enforce or refuse to enforce. Doing so for the 2nd Amendment issues (which this really isn't) could result in child support/visitation rights, liability suits, etc. all being unenforceable. There are Federal "Rules of Court" and each state has their own Rules of Court which lays out practices and procedures to be followed and they have to be abided by.

 

[BattleSnail]

Settle down. I don't care about who ships to MA.

My point was that I've been admonished and had posts disappeared when mentioning various deals/vendors who had things available, never discussing whether they ship to MA or not. I've seen it happen to others too.



Cheers to that.

it's cool...something about the way your post was written made me feel all WTF, but clearly the way I read it wasn't how you intended it...

 

[travis]

Just because i am asking people to be mindful, doesnt mean that i am asking people to give up. Posting something like this has put awareness out there that the AG is still a bitch and combs these forums looking for crap to go after. Fighting this fight doesnt mean running into a fight "guns blazing". Fighting this fight is making the small victories count. Being able to buy things online is a right that we have. Not letting the AG find out what retailers are still shipping to mass is a victory, even if YOU dont see it that way.

Read the book if you have the time. It will give you some better insight on what people and groups like Comm2a are really doing.

I have read the art war I wrote a paper on it. That aside please feel free to tell what has been won by hiding LEGAL activity like a common criminal! That is surrender! As you seem to like Sun Tzu here are a couple quotes for you from the Art of War..


"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities... It is best to win without fighting.
"

Sun Tzu Art of War


"But when the army is restless and distrustful, trouble is sure to come from the other feudal princes. This is simply bringing anarchy into the army, and flinging victory away."

Sun Tzu Art of War

 

[leewongfei]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Maybe you should re-read it Travis. No one is surrendering, we are doing the opposite. Maybe if Maine tried limiting what you buy, you would understand. No one is giving up, we are just fighting our battles differently. [/FONT]

 

[60 buckscash]

If the price is good (enough for double shipping) and you don't need it right away I live in Florida. PM me. F Martha.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[travis]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Maybe you should re-read it Travis. No one is surrendering, we are doing the opposite. Maybe if Maine tried limiting what you buy, you would understand. No one is giving up, we are just fighting our battles differently. [/FONT]

You may want to read and grasp fully what the quote means. As for limiting I have to wait like 5 minutes when I buy a gun at the store! Conducting legal activity in hiding is giving the impression of a guilty conscious.

 

[lord1234]

I have read the art war I wrote a paper on it. That aside please feel free to tell what has been won by hiding LEGAL activity like a common criminal! That is surrender! As you seem to like Sun Tzu here are a couple quotes for you from the Art of War..


"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities... It is best to win without fighting.
"

Sun Tzu Art of War


"But when the army is restless and distrustful, trouble is sure to come from the other feudal princes. This is simply bringing anarchy into the army, and flinging victory away."

Sun Tzu Art of War

What color crayon did you write this in? I looked in my box of crayons and couldn't match it...

 

[drgrant]

I have read the art war I wrote a paper on it. That aside please feel free to tell what has been won by hiding LEGAL activity like a common criminal! That is surrender! As you seem to like Sun Tzu here are a couple quotes for you from the Art of War..

Getting what you want when the other side isn't effectively getting what they want, is hardly "surrender."

-Mike