Be careful stating names of online vendors

[jasons]

An unsettled issue is "where does a mail order sale occur?" - at the location of the shipper or the recipient?

I disagree that this is an unsettled issue. The precedent is clear.

Source: "West's Business Law, 9th Edition" Chapter 20

 

[ColdDayInHell]

I wonder if they just look at MA and think its just not worth it. This state is so *** backwards, i bet that if someone made the public aware that Marsha was basically blackmailing these companies, she would see more votes go her way because the dumb*** voters in this state would think she was fighting crime

Sadly you're right.

 

[TOM1960]

I disagree that this is an unsettled issue. The precedent is clear.

Source: "West's Business Law, 9th Edition" Chapter 20

I don't bother with online sales anymore. I am close to NH and the prices, with no MA tax or shipping fees, are actually less, not only on ammo and firearm accessories but other items as well. Only a matter of time before Martha and her goons subpoena info from vendors about online firearms/weapon related orders. Information obtained may include our credit card data, which is obviously needed for such orders. No thanks. Too risky. I do not want my personal financial data in the hands of our AG. I can do without that aggravation, thank you.

 

[Serapis]

What is she threatening them with? A bad look? No laws are broken, what could she possibly do? I do not get it.

I am not a lawyer but can't you get the federal courts involved with this. Like a no contact order? It's clear no laws are being broken and thus it becomes a harassment issue based on her personal beliefs.

Like everything else, throwing our hands up and saying there's nothing we can do is not the the answer. I don't know what is, but I know doing nothing isn't. I applaud people here who brain storm and try to figure out a course if action. Even if it's writing letters it something.

I'm drafting letters today to send to the AG and to the big manufactures. Will it matter? Probably not, but why throw up your hands and do nothing.

Saying things will never change only ensures that they never will.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Len-2A Training]

Generally when the buyer pays the shipping costs (which is typically how the transactions in question here are done) it's considered "FOB origin," which basically means that the buyer owns the goods as soon as they leave the seller's possession.

That way if you don't opt for insurance and something is lost/stolen/damaged in transit, the vendor isn't responsible to replace it. If it really was at point of delivery, we wouldn't have to pay for shipping or insurance and any losses would be on the seller . . . not something that vendors would like.

However, it gives a questionable rationale for the AG to harass sellers, so it works for the AG (all 3 that we've had that went after non-MA dealers).

 

[crazymjb]

I don't bother with online sales anymore. I am close to NH and the prices, with no MA tax or shipping fees, are actually less, not only on ammo and firearm accessories but other items as well. Only a matter of time before Martha and her goons subpoena info from vendors about online firearms/weapon related orders. Information obtained may include our credit card data, which is obviously needed for such orders. No thanks. Too risky. I do not want my personal financial data in the hands of our AG. I can do without that aggravation, thank you.

You think that is the only way they can get your financial information?

Mike

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

 

[falcon123]

If there's no law against selling and shipping to us and Martha is sending letters basically saying "stop or we'll sue you out of business" isn't there some sort of precedent they can use to sue our AG for harassment and violation of some sort of equal commerce clause? Like one of the posters stated earlier, what if the AG randomly decided they wanted to Dethrone Coca Cola sales and sent them a letter with the same info? Coca Cola wouldn't wait to get sued and then let it drag on for years, they'd find some law that made it clear their rights as a business were being violated and take that bitch to court.

A few points. Coke is a worldwide multi billion $ company and would fight back because it is their most profitable product. The coke market in this shithole is much bigger than the ammo market. I bet 90% of people drink coke as opposed to the 3 or 4 % that buy ammo online. Even chirren and marsha drink coke.

 

[Serapis]

A few points. Coke is a worldwide multi billion $ company and would fight back because it is their most profitable product. The coke market in this shithole is much bigger than the ammo market. I bet 90% of people drink coke as opposed to the 3 or 4 % that buy ammo online. Even chirren and marsha drink coke.

Just an example, to help with a rough comparison. No need to over analyze.

 

[xcom]

Someone should make this a sticky... oh wait

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...ship-C-R-items-ammo-guns-to-C-R-holders-in-MA

 

[leewongfei]

Someone should make this a sticky... oh wait

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...ship-C-R-items-ammo-guns-to-C-R-holders-in-MA

Looks like someone forgot to eat their Wheaties.

My post wasnt about listing the name of vendors, it was about being mindful of saying things that can be traced back to vendors. For example, if XYZ corp is the only company that makes XYZ brand bullets and they are having a buy 1 get 1 free sale, making a comment like "i use XYZ bullets, they work great and are currently buy 1 get 1 free!", is exactly what i was telling people to be mindful of. You arent saying that you buy them online, but you are essentially giving away your source.

 

[Golddiggie]

...My post wasnt about listing the name of vendors, it was about being mindful of saying things that can be traced back to vendors. For example, if XYZ corp is the only company that makes XYZ brand bullets and they are having a buy 1 get 1 free sale, making a comment like "i use XYZ bullets, they work great and are currently buy 1 get 1 free!", is exactly what i was telling people to be mindful of. You arent saying that you buy them online, but you are essentially giving away your source.

That's fine for MA inmates, but what about the rest of us that are not under Marsha's thumb?? Limit the threads to the member's section only, and maybe make these "free staters" type posts/threads. Or put up a 'non-MA vendors' section within the member's section. I know, more work for mods/and admin's, but if the Marsha drones are going to be buzzing around, you need some camo (or a ghillie suit).

 

[leewongfei]

That's fine for MA inmates, but what about the rest of us that are not under Marsha's thumb?? Limit the threads to the member's section only, and maybe make these "free staters" type posts/threads. Or put up a 'non-MA vendors' section within the member's section. I know, more work for mods/and admin's, but if the Marsha drones are going to be buzzing around, you need some camo (or a ghillie suit).

Its pretty easy to see that your from NH, please see the picture below. You wouldnt have to be as mindful as someone from Mass because of your location.

 

[jasons]

However, it gives a questionable rationale for the AG to harass sellers, so it works for the AG (all 3 that we've had that went after non-MA dealers).

Yep. The whole concept is literally first year B school stuff, but once again we see the AG (who should know better) using uncertainty to breed doubt. The worst part about it is that she'd easily find an activist MA judge who would hear the case regardless of existing law and precedent, so even if the vendor "won" the case they'd still have to pay thousands of dollars in legal costs. From a business standpoint it's just not worth footing the legal bills for the small margin and limited sales they'd from selling ammo to MA residents.

 

[Golddiggie]

Its pretty easy to see that your from NH, please see the picture below. You wouldnt have to be as mindful as someone from Mass because of your location.
View attachment 93459

I know, I made it a point to include my location. What I'm saying is if the mod's squash posts/threads that call out great deals/sales that free state residents can get in on, to 'protect' the vendors from Marsha, it's actually hurting [the rest of] us just as much (if not more).

 

[Pilgrim]

I don't think Marsha found anything out on this forum. We seem to be a pretty good group at self policing. Some other forums tend to be less conservative.

really? You don't see what we have to delete !

- - - Updated - - -

when are we going to start to challenge these letters in court?

A Massachusetts court ?

 

[EC1]

YES!!! so in Martha's world if ABC hobby shop sells me a radio controlled plane made by Fun co. and I fly it into my friends head at 30mph then he can sue the hobby shop instead of me....... hell I'm broke so best of luck.

martha fits the obama-holder (their names don't deserve to be capitalized) mold, selective enforcement of law; don't like it, just ignore it.

 

[drgrant]

It will have the opposite effect, the majority of the state will applaud her. Most people in this state think the idea of being able to purchase ammunition online is some conservative redneck plan to arm the gangs of the inner city. Our only recourse is through the federal courts but good luck finding a willing vendor to take part. I promise that if I hit the lotto for more than $50mm I'll do it for us all

I think some of you are overthinking this. It's not so much that people "would applaud what the AG is doing" but rather, there is a distinct lack of people in MA who have a vested interest in the outcome. The average person in MA doesn't own a gun. So when they see something like this, it just gets ignored, as they have no skin in the game. Antis don't gain ground because their positions are actually popular... they win because of lack of opposition, and I've seen that time and time again. If the antis' positions were really popular, we'd be "all done" by now because they would be able to circulate referendum petitions and get all kinds of things banned rather easily; they could use the power of raw numbers to defeat us pretty easily, and we'd all be stuck here polishing single shot shotguns and mass compliant 1 shot derringers. Rather, the deal is this.... if some Maig/MDA type goes marching around with a petition, or for that matter someone from GOAL, the response is pretty much the same by the average peon in MA... "Zero ****s Given". The difference is the antis have the support of their cohorts within the "machine" and that is why they get any traction at all.

-Mike

 

[noddaduma]

A Massachusetts court ?

You shouldn't plan on giving up so easily or you'll never taste freedom.

 

[Wrench75]

Spies? Seriously? Must be thrilling work.

You clearly haven't been here long enough to know what the hell you are talking about. We have had members targeted by the ATF over group buys and other bullshit specifically due to something they posted here. Or a GB that happened here. I'm sure there are plenty of other stories that get buried or the involved parties were smart enough to not bring up on here in the first place. Hell we have even had 1 FFL rat out another shop for selling off list guns.

It doesn't take a trench coat, fedora and shoe phone to be a spy anymore. All you have to be is a douchebag troll with a laptop and obama-net.

 

[Wrench75]

That's what I was talking about.
Couldn't we just to a kick starter type deal and find some one to go to court for this. Dose it have to be a company? If so wtf can't the customers just group up

I would donate a weeks pay for this.
There's enough of us that bitch and moan about it not being easy to buy ammo online ,That we could afford to fight it.
If it works you'll get the ammo you want and you'd recoup it over time.
There's a few match grade ammo I want that I never see at lgs that I can find online .

IANAL but I'm pretty sure you would have to be an "injured party" IE the shop owner who got the letter, to file the suit. I know that as, the people who can't buy what we want, we could argue that "we" do qualify as an injured party but that angle would be even harder to argue and win.

 

[Len-2A Training]

You clearly haven't been here long enough to know what the hell you are talking about. We have had members targeted by the ATF over group buys and other bullshit specifically due to something they posted here. Or a GB that happened here. I'm sure there are plenty of other stories that get buried or the involved parties were smart enough to not bring up on here in the first place. He we have even had 1 FFL rat out another shop for selling off list guns.

It doesn't take a trench coat, fedora and shoe phone to be a spy anymore. All you have to be is a douchebag troll with a laptop and obama-net.

And the bolded part was done strictly based on posts made on NES!!

 

[bolt]

 

[.40swToFreedom]

Totally agree with the OP...if I only knew.

 

[99105]

The greatest increase in crime lately has been through the use of computers, including identity theft , phone scams, etc. I doubt the MA AG is going after this countries distributors of keyboards, monitors, database software, and the like with admonishments about these wares being used in the commission of crime. They aren't going after car dealers with warnings the litigation they would face if someone drove to endanger in a car sold off their lot. I see lots of hoodies and hats being worn in robberies. Doubtful that the clothing stores are being harassed.

IMHO, I think that the Attorneys General of the other states, particularly NH should file suit against the Commonwealth in federal court. The businesses in other states should not be bullied by MA.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

Well said...I have noticed am increase in people posting of vendors lately...

Good luck to you

Out them and then negative rep the crap out of the idiots doing this.... There is not one single reason if you post on these forums you can't take 5 minutes to read the damn stickies at the top of each forum.

 

[knoxy]

That's fine for MA inmates, but what about the rest of us that are not under Marsha's thumb?? Limit the threads to the member's section only, and maybe make these "free staters" type posts/threads. Or put up a 'non-MA vendors' section within the member's section. I know, more work for mods/and admin's, but if the Marsha drones are going to be buzzing around, you need some camo (or a ghillie suit).

This is really the only thing that bugs me about NES. Despite that some of us are in free states, we're still censored and made to whisper in the shadows because of MA bullshit.

 

[BattleSnail]

I wish she would just have a massive stroke and drop dead. Stupid ****

 

[BattleSnail]

This is really the only thing that bugs me about NES. Despite that some of us are in free states, we're still censored and made to whisper in the shadows because of MA bullshit.

It bothers you that you can't name the vendors who ship to MA? How does that make any sense at all. If you're in a free state, you have no need to be concerned with who will ship to MA as anyone can ship anything to your free state. It bothers you that you can't contribute to making life even worse for MA residents?

 

[mac1911]

maybe they can send all the letters and info to GOAL and Comm2a see if theres anything that can be done ?
In the end our pennies wont be enough for their aggravation.........

 

[knoxy]

It bothers you that you can't name the vendors who ship to MA? How does that make any sense at all. If you're in a free state, you have no need to be concerned with who will ship to MA as anyone can ship anything to your free state. It bothers you that you can't contribute to making life even worse for MA residents?

Settle down. I don't care about who ships to MA.

My point was that I've been admonished and had posts disappeared when mentioning various deals/vendors who had things available, never discussing whether they ship to MA or not. I've seen it happen to others too.

I wish she would just have a massive stroke and drop dead. Stupid ****

Cheers to that.