Bass Pro-On the wrong side of the AG already?

[Joe R.]

NAME THE #$%& DEALER WHO SQUEELED TO THE AG'S OFFICE SO I DON'T SPEND ANY MONEY AT THAT SHOP!

Okay, I got that out of the system and feel alittle better!

The AG's office would have figured it out by actually going to the store and seeing these in the case. The records given to the CHSB wouldn't have been scrutinized unless one of the minions would have read that the Glock was sold to a non-LEO person as the info was being entered. Don't give the power of minor deity to a MA agency that has too much stuff to look thru everything.

C-pher has mentioned as to who it would take to fix what MA does to gunowners here. I've heard discussions that one of the large dealers that supports the target shooting community would like a crack at the MA AG office on ammo and other things to sell/ship to MA but has never been challenged enough to just step up and have a go at it. What if someone had that determination to do that and had deep pockets? It might force some of the fence sitting dealers here to lend a hand to try and fix this mockery of laws and regs that just are there to harass the gunowner. Maybe some of these people/dealers/distributors like it here because they have a monopoly on what is being sold here and don't want the gravy train derailed. Look at the example of Heller vs DC to see what the NRA was trying to do to get that case derailed because it might lessen the power they have in lobbying - that example is what I'm pushing to here in MA.

Joe R<

 

[clinotus]

NAME THE #$%& DEALER WHO SQUEELED TO THE AG'S OFFICE SO I DON'T SPEND ANY MONEY AT THAT SHOP!

Please!

C-pher has mentioned as to who it would take to fix what MA does to gunowners here. I've heard discussions that one of the large dealers that supports the target shooting community would like a crack at the MA AG office on ammo and other things to sell/ship to MA but has never been challenged enough to just step up and have a go at it. What if someone had that determination to do that and had deep pockets?

I'd chip in the same day with money and phone time.

 

[BillO]

Just want to know too.

Could somebody PM me with the dealers name as well. Would like to avoid unknowingly patronising this person's shop.

Thanks

 

[drgrant]

Anyone every wonder why S&W has it figured out so well? They have an awful lot of their firearms on the EOPS list and seem to sell without any hassle from the AG. I cant seem to figure out why they get past all the BS but others like Glock, Kimber, STI ect... have such difficulty or choose not to.

I think S+W is more willing to play the game and has better
lawyers, for starters.

I think Glock is just damned out of the gate- the AG seems to
have a vendetta against them, at least under reilly, doesn't
surprise me if this same level of hate exists with coakley.

For some of the smaller gun manufs, it's basically fear and risk that
keep them away. A lot of them could probably certify and sell
their guns here with no issue, but they view it as a financially
risky proposition- they could invest serious money into testing to
get something on the roster, and then not having it saleable because
it's blocked by the AG is a huge gamble.

I think another problem is that there is a lot of base-level hate
for MA out there in the gun industry- and I think a lot of it has
taken on a life of its own; eg, there are guys out there that
have grown to accept the belief that MA is more f'ed up than
it actually is. (if that's possible). Anyone who doesn't live
here, when you mention MA they think of two things-

Moonbat politicians and a couple of sports teams that kick
serious ass. Either often invites considerable levels of
vitriol.

-Mike

 

[kevin9]

TomH, Cato and Drgrant, As I understand it the AG has written letters on more than one occasion indicating that certain guns on the EOPS list do not met the AG's extra requirements. Any one of those letters, and the sum total of the contents of those letters, both logically constitute a list because they identify one or more items in an existing list (e.g., the EOPS list).

Laws and rules are not necessarily, and in this case are not, the same as the lists that result from them. Both the EOPS roster and the AG's identification of disallowed guns are derived from a matching set of laws and/or regulations. The EOPS roster is to M.G.L. c. 140 §123 clauses 18-21, as the identification of specific guns that do not met the AG's rules is to those rules, 940 CMR 16.00.

Those items may not be publicly identified, there may be no published list in a single place, it may not be available to businesses even on request, the AG may not call it a list, it may not even met the jurisprudential definition of a list (if there is such a thing); but, it is still "a list", a collection of one or more items having some connection to one another, by logical and dictionary definitions, and I will continue to call it such.

I realize I am splitting a rather fine definitional hair, and actually don't plan to debate it much further: People have clearly made up their minds one way or the other. However, I do not want to perpetuate the mislabeling (or shall I say non-labeling) of the AG's list: Remember, this is the same organization that tries to call their gun control regulations "consumer protection regulations". We know that is a lie.

Thank you.

 

[NFD9]

You don't know the reputation of the owner of Bass Pro. Remember, this isn't a board like Wal-mart, or Dicks. This is one guy, who's a hard ass, that owns them all. He fought saying that all ammo has to be complely accessable to the public. No behind the counter. So, it was out on the floor. The only reason there's glass now was because he worked it out with the town to lock it up when there's a parking lot full of drunks. Other than that, it won't be behind glass.

If he's got that passion about the ammo in his store, we don't know what he'll do when he finds out about all this...if he doesn't know already.

C-pher,
I was wondering why the ammo was not locked. I felt as if I was being treated like an adult, shopping in a free state.
If the owner of BP is willing take on these ridiculous laws, I for one would patronize his stores before any others, even at higher prices. I feel it would be a small price to pay.
Some of these other shops in MA haven't seemed to try and help the consumers.

Were you working the firearms counter yesterday around 4 pm?

 

[Ripach]

I am writing this after serious consideration, part of me wants to remain silent and not risk the flames/negative rep., but alas I am too stubborn to shut up. I initially stated in the members forum that I would boycott the dealer who did this, and then someone PM'd me the name. My first reaction was shock and anger, it is a shop I frequent, and a person that I get along with. After my initial reaction I decided I had to investigate for myself, so I went to the shop to buy some ammo and struck up conversation. The dealer admits he called, he also told me he was not the first or the last to call, and that the AG had already gleaned that something was wrong based on posts made here at NES. He does indeed work with an Assoc. of Dealers here in Ma., and most of it's members also called, including some dealers who are very popular here on our forum. He also told me he and several others had heard in advance what Basspro was going to sell and did call and offer assistance, they were basically told that BP was going to sell the guns anyway. After speaking with this dealer I decided to check up on his story, I have called and visited several dealers, some who I've dealt with in the past and some I don't know. At least one other has admitted to calling, and one told me he received a call from the AG's office on the matter. I have decided I will not boycott anyone over this for the following reasons
-BassPro knew they were doing wrong and did it anyway (some of us made out, some of us didn't)
-The dealers who called were just trying to make sure the new giant on the block was competing on an even playing field.
-The dealer that everyone is bashing also was worried that they might be breaking other rules WRT Mag capacity putting some unwitting gun owners in a criminal position.
-Lastly, we only have a hand full of places left to do business in this State as it is, a boycott only helps one person, the Anti.

All of this is just MNSHO based on what I've learned over the past couple of days. I truly believe the dealer in question felt he was protecting his livelyhood and possibly his customers, maybe I am just naive. I challenge all of you too look at things from the other sides perspective before jumping to conclusions and boycotting anybody.
I will not disclose the names of the "Dealer in Question" or the other dealers I have talked too, as I will not further feed this witch hunt.

Let the Troll Smiley's and flaming's begin.

 

[MFP4073]

Moonbat politicians and a couple of sports teams that kick
serious ass. Either often invites considerable levels of
vitriol.

-Mike

You got that right! Especially about the sports teams kicking serious ass - its nice to have our turn for bragging rights.

Excellent input from everyone on my question.

It would just be nice if some of the "outsiders" that we all would love to enjoy in our sport would take a look at Smith's guns and say "O.K., lets see what the correct recipee is for selling to MA customers". Smith offers almost everything now... 1911's, revolvers, polymer guns, large frame guns, small frame guns, even AR's (not that these are affected by AG regs).

 

[FPrice]

Ripach,

If what you say is accurate, then I agree with your conclusions.

 

[Admin]

So apparently they called BP to offer help then sent them down the river?

 

[Lugnut]

I'm starting to get annoyed... if some of us are "ok" with what the dealer(s) did but won't post or PM anything I have to wonder about this BS! Post the damn names! No one seems to have a problem bitching out a dealer over other issues... if it's really fact then post up or shut up I say!

 

[Ripach]

So apparently they called BP to offer help then sent them down the river?

The way it was explained to me BP replied to the offer of help with a "Thanks, but No Thanks" kind of attitude.

 

[vicpinto]

C-pher,
I was wondering why the ammo was not locked. I felt as if I was being treated like an adult, shopping in a free state.

Yeah, I was surprised to see that to. Made me feel good.

 

[Admin]

The way it was explained to me BP replied to the offer of help with a "Thanks, but No Thanks" kind of attitude.

I do repect you Ripach, however on this I still don't agree with what they did to BP.

 

[Ripach]

I do repect you Ripach, however on this I still don't agree with what they did to BP.

Understandable, I'm always O. K. with agreeing to disagree.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yes, but I have to still wonder why the S&W M&P .45 isn't tested and Listed yet. How many years does it take? Or why is it so different from the other M&P models?

 

[kevin9]

I hear you Ripach, and good for you for doing more research. I'm not going to call for others to do the same as I do, but there is an alternate understanding of your stated reasons:

...
-BassPro knew they were doing wrong and did it anyway (some of us made out, some of us didn't)

Bass Pro deliberately decided that they were not going to comply with the undocumented extortion of the AG's office based on the word of others. They may even have decided to pick the fight for the good of us all. We shall see.

-The dealers who called were just trying to make sure the new giant on the block was competing on an even playing field.

The dealers who called were acting out of short-sighted fear and self-interest. Rather than try to pull Bass Pro down to the field level they've been at, maybe they should have joined Bass Pro to try to raise the playing field for everyone.

-The dealer that everyone is bashing also was worried that they might be breaking other rules WRT Mag capacity putting some unwitting gun owners in a criminal position.

The dealer in question embellished his complaint to make sure it was heard.

-Lastly, we only have a hand full of places left to do business in this State as it is, a boycott only helps one person, the Anti.

Not if it galvanizes dealers to band together to take on the AG's extortion.

I just have a real problem with dealers turning other dealers in for things like this. It perpetuates and reinforces the extortionate tactics of the anti's. The possibility that it was more than one dealer called only tells me that more than one dealer has been cowed into submission. I don't see the business, or even moral, downside to not calling in on such "violations": A rising tide floats all boats.

 

[Junglerott]

Kevin9, you are right on the money!!

 

[Admin]

Kevin9, you are right on the money!!

+1 that he is.

 

[JonJ]

Kevin9, you are right on the money!!

+1 that he is.

That about sums it up.

 

[Mikey]

Kevin9, you are right on the money!!

+2 great post,

This whole thing has been a "lose lose" situation for gun owners.

 

[madmarc0]

I also agree that it was a crappy thing to do. It has been said that "people tat work for a dealer" should sit by the sidelines and not take sides.
Keep in mind that I do work for a dealer but I do not have an agenda as a shop employee.
I have a problem with it as a gun owner, guys who run shops and other folks who think they are somehow superior or know more than the other guy are just plain wrong. I do not know everything nor do I profess to know. I think that we are all equals whether we are doctors gun shop owners or any other profession and think that we should be treated that way.
My problem with the person responsible for calling is that they think that they are the watchdog for the gun owning community and that's just plain wrong!
Damn right i'm passionate about this and have an opinion, because i'm a gun owner, and we all need to treat each other equally and with respect.
I do not for one minute think that there were other dealers who called the ag's office. I think it's a feeble attempt to back pedal by the scumbag that did this and to group other innocent dealers into it to make himself look better.
Go there or don't go there, this is still America and we are free to do as we please. I respect you for doing as you will.

 

[icyclefar]

Amen, brother Marc

 

[dreppucci007]

Kevin9, you are right on the money!!

+1 that he is.

That about sums it up.

+2 great post,

This whole thing has been a "lose lose" situation for gun owners.

+3 Hit the nail on the head

 

[vellnueve]

From what I'm reading, it sounds more like the BP people decided they were going to sell anyway not based on a desire to stick it to the AG (since they folded immediately when contacted) but because they either didn't take the word of the dealers who contacted them and just stuck with what corporate told them.

Please, they never had any intention of fighting this one out.

I hate the AG regs as much as anyone, but all the evidence points to them never intending to fight. If they were going to fight, they would have done it when contacted.

 

[Fooped]

"I think your first mistake is to call the AG`s reg`s laws. It`s not a law. It was never voted on or passed by an elected body. It`s a regulation the AG dreamed up because he was and is anti-gun.
If I was there I would have purchased a new Glock and told them to "F%^& off" when they told me to return it."

We could probably split hairs over this for days on end, but again knowingly purchasing one of these under the circumstances (law or regulation) was just plain wrong in my opinion no matter who was at fault. The dealer or the buyer.

NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT.

What is wrong is the previous AG office "dreaming up" some admitted bogus "Consumer protection" statutes with a self-serving political agenda in mind, and the current AG office for enforcing these utter afronts to law-abiding citizens.

Without donning my tin foil hat, giving any creedence or respect to these draconian non-laws is NOT "doing the right thing when no one's looking", but rather allowing a very real fraudulent practice to continue unchallenged.

Not stealing the cash out of someone's wallet you found, THAT'S doing the right thing when no one's looking.

 

[Fooped]

I would praise their act of civil disobedience and buy that man a
beer.

It's not "unfair" because there isn't anything stopping someone
else from doing the same thing. I can't buy the "moral
wrongness" tack when the law is only "malum prohibitum" to
begin with, and the person's actions have hurt nobody.

Just because the state "would prefer" we don't have something
doesn't mean we should kowtow to them at every opportunity-
rather, we should be spitting in their faces every
chance we get- especially if we can do so without getting put
in jail. They disrespect us enough as it is, I think
the favor should be returned even if it's just one little thing here
and there. Lord knows we've been needled to death as
gun owners as it is in this state. It's time to start pissing in
their cakemix in return.


-Mike

+74,000,000!

 

[C-pher]

So apparently they called BP to offer help then sent them down the river?

The way it was explained to me BP replied to the offer of help with a "Thanks, but No Thanks" kind of attitude.

+3 Hit the nail on the head

As for the first two quotes. I can only speak for what I know. As I haven't spoken to anyone else other than my boss over at BPS. As a local person, I know that from the start, he was talking to Corp and trying to find out what exactly we can and can't sell. He was asking other people if they knew of an Approved list, as he hasn't ever seen one. As we all know, there isn't one, per say. As far as I know, no one spoke to him directly about this from any other shop.

So, if they did, please tell find out who they spoke to at BPS. I will then be more than happy to find out if they did or did not contact the store. I've been talking to management a lot about this, and it was never said that anyone from another shop had spoken to him. I can't say if he spoke to his boss, or if they called Springfield, MO, not Foxboro, MA.

I do know that one shop owner did say that the manager of the Hunting department came into his shop and talked with him. He also said that the said manager told him BPS wouldn't sell guns and ammo on Sunday. I'm not sure who came into his shop, as none of the manangers even said that they knew him. Also, we do sell guns and ammo on Sunday, so I'm not sure who was pulling his leg.

If that's the same person that is saying that he spoke with BPS, then in fact he never spoke to anyone in Management at BPS. If that's not the same dealer, then I can't comment on who he did or didn't speak with at BPS.

Again, if he did CALL to BPS, I would like to know what number he called and who he spoke with, as I would follow up with my manager at BPS.

 

[kevin9]

+1
Facts are so inconvenient aren't they, particularly when they get in the way of a good rumor.

 

[Admin]

Marc grab some beers I'm heading over.