ATF Proposed Rule Change for Frames and Receivers

[peterk123]

Executive orders need to go away or at least become very restricted. Both side rule through executive order. It turns Presidents into Kings.

 

[Lank]

Executive orders need to go away or at least become very restricted. Both side rule through executive order. It turns Presidents into Kings.

I am not aware of a process for executive orders in US Constitution

 

[Lank]

I am not aware of a process for executive orders in US Constitution

Can anyone point out?

 

[GM-GUY]

The other side to that is legislation that says ‘As the director shall define’ and ‘rules and regulations to be promulgated by the agency’

Meaning appointees and hacks get to write law.

 

[xtry51]

I think its clear the framers did not intend for any organization to be allowed to write their own laws. Even trying to do so should be treason and automatic death penalty.

 

[June4th]

Man, I've been too lazy to do any of this 80% crap. Everything I have is 100%. Come at me, senile a-hole.

 

[cathouse01]

too many words and unfamiliar letters.

if anybody could summarize all that crap into some bulletpoints reflecting factual action items required now - it would be very helpful.

The ATF has issued a fact sheet that is fairly brief and to the point:

Privately Made Firearms (PMFs), aka “Ghost Guns,” “Buy-Build- Shoot” kits, and the “Frame or Receiver” Final Rule

Right now (emphasis on right now) they are only going after the “Buy-Build-Shoot” kits that were primarily offered for Polymer 80 pistols, which contained everything (including the jig) to complete it. From the fact sheet:

“Buy-build-shoot” kits are weapon parts kits that are essentially pre-manufactured, dissembled, complete firearms (a firearm in a box).

Which clearly is NOT what we currently refer to as an 80% frame or 80% lower.

 

[teamRR]

The ATF has issued a fact sheet that is fairly brief and to the point:

Privately Made Firearms (PMFs), aka “Ghost Guns,” “Buy-Build- Shoot” kits, and the “Frame or Receiver” Final Rule

Right now (emphasis on right now) they are only going after the “Buy-Build-Shoot” kits that were primarily offered for Polymer 80 pistols, which contained everything (including the jig) to complete it. From the fact sheet:



Which clearly is NOT what we currently refer to as an 80% frame or 80% lower.

It'd be wonderful if what you are saying is true, and hell maybe the ATF realized by banning what they already approved, what is essentially not a firearm by legal definition, they were treading on such thin ice the best they could muster in the absence of actual law, is political semantics.

But I think, like the extreme angle stuff GOA is preaching above (why the hell do they treat their members like idiots?), that assumption is also wrong just in the opposite way. Going to have to read the final published to see for sure but I think "buy build shoot" just means 80% kits of any sort (including the bare reciever sort) - I hope I am wrong though .

 

[xtry51]

They are trying to get creep in definitions so they can push to serialize everything. It's got nothing to do with ghost guns. It's the long game to incrementally outlaw everything.

 

[safetyfirst2125]

Oh there’s more coming, don’t you worry…..universal background checks = national gun non-registry registry.

So the brown shirts will know who to confiscate from when that day comes.




View: https://twitter.com/potus/status/1513638441770266630?s=21&t=EPC--IotEjLCk2ios19T8g

 

[Roadglide]

What really grinds my gears is this whole “rule” thing… We’re supposed to be a nation of laws. Like from schoolhouse rocks our bill is supposed to become a law. Not just a reinterpretation of anything you don’t like. Or like Biden using the defense act for minerals for rechargeable car batteries like it’s a matter of national security.

The executive branch has way too much power..
This whole Covid thing is another prime example. It’s such an emergency we don’t have time to sit down and come up with a legitimate plan and pass it the right way. The Senate and the house should’ve sat down figure it the f*** out and approve it legally. And if they want to argue over it and not do it then fine we don’t have to do anything about Covid and we can just deal with it by ourselves. They’re all a bunch of scum bags

Stop now. You're making too much sense

 

[Junior314]

I am not aware of a process for executive orders in US Constitution

I think its clear the framers did not intend for any organization to be allowed to write their own laws. Even trying to do so should be treason and automatic death penalty.

That's because the founding fathers never thought government would become the bloated disaster that it is now at the executive level. The federal government is the largest employer in the USA at 2.7 million people.

F*** this administration.

 

[paul73]

F*** this administration.

why this? any. game is the same no matter who are the players.

 

[Junior314]

why this? any. game is the same no matter who are the players.

I call out everyone/anyone when they overstep their power.

 

[drgrant]

Lol here we go kids

Routers n drill presses out of stock at HD, stat.


View: https://youtu.be/bFzrB-lo9k8

Cat thinkin: f*** that bitch no pussywhip shit like a dryer at HD, im gunna build me some guns nao

Plus another million guns or two easy.

 

[Junior314]

Lol here we go kids

Routers n drill presses out of stock at HD, stat.


View: https://youtu.be/bFzrB-lo9k8

Cat thinkin: f*** that bitch no pussywhip shit like a dryer at HD, im gunna build me some guns nao

Plus another million guns or two easy.

I was wathcing this video on full screen on my laptop when my wife walked up behind me.

"What the f*** are you watching?"

You always have the most obscure/hilarious videos.

 

[cathouse01]

I bought one of these from Midway back in November of 2019:

AR-STONER AR-15 Carbine Kit with Complete Upper Assembly 7.62x39mm 1 in 10" Twist 16" Barrel and 80% Lower.

All you needed to do to complete it was to mill out the FCG pocket, drill the safety and trigger pins holes and assemble it. They don’t offer it anymore, but I think this is the type of thing they’re going after.

 

[Tartakovsky]

Breaking News: ATF Moves To Classify CNC Machines And 3D Printers As Machine Guns

I bought one of these from Midway back in November of 2019:

AR-STONER AR-15 Carbine Kit with Complete Upper Assembly 7.62x39mm 1 in 10" Twist 16" Barrel and 80% Lower.

All you needed to do to complete it was to mill out the FCG pocket, drill the safety and trigger pins holes and assemble it. They don’t offer it anymore, but I think this is the type of thing they’re going after.

Dude, forest for the trees. Stop blocking and tackling for the gubment. You a paid shill or what?

 

[cathouse01]

Ok, so here it is, direct from the comments on the actual final rule:

ATF has maintained and continues to maintain that a partially complete frame or receiver alone is not a frame or receiver if it still requires performance of certain machining operations (e.g., milling out the fire control cavity of an AR-15 billet or blank, or indexing for that operation) because it may not readily be completed to house or hold the applicable fire control components.

But they are adding the following:

However, this rule recognizes that the aggregation of a template or jig with a partially complete frame or receiver can serve the same purpose as indexing, making an item that is clearly identifiable as a partially complete frame or receiver into a functional one efficiently, quickly, and easily (i.e., “readily”).

So as long as the 80% lower/frame is not part of a kit, it still is not considered a frame or receiver.

 

[cathouse01]

Breaking News: ATF Moves To Classify CNC Machines And 3D Printers As Machine Guns

Dude, forest for the trees. Stop blocking and tackling for the gubment. You a paid shill or what?

I am NOT making excuses for the Federal Government. Please read my other posts. What I am trying to do is remove the fud around this, where people are running around saying you won’t be able to get 80% frames/lowers without going through an FFL. The current rule will not impact your ability to get a standalone 80% frame/lower and it will not need to be serialized.

 

[Tartakovsky]

I am NOT making excuses for the Federal Government. Please read my other posts. What I am trying to do is remove the fud around this, where people are running around saying you won’t be able to get 80% frames/lowers without going through an FFL. The current rule will not impact your ability to get a standalone 80% frame/lower and it will not need to be serialized.

Whatever you say

 

[cathouse01]

And an example from the final rule itself:

Example 4— Not a receiver: A billet or blank of an AR-15 variant receiver without critical interior areas having been indexed, machined, or formed that is not sold, distributed, or possessed with instructions, jigs, templates, equipment, or tools such that it may readily be completed is not a receiver.

So this will now be considered a receiver and require a serial number and will need to go through an FFL:

80 Percent Lowers & Uppers, Build Kits, Tools & More | 5D Tactical

5D Tactical is your supplier for premium quality 80 percent lower & upper receivers, 80 pistol frames, parts, accessories & more. Shop our wide selection today!

www.5dtactical.com

This will not:

AR-15 80% Billet Lower- Black Anodized

Another 5D Tactical exclusive design, the AR-15 80% lower receiver has a clean and unique design. Check out this billet 80% lower receiver today at 5D Tactical!

www.5dtactical.com

 

[teamRR]

I am NOT making excuses for the Federal Government. Please read my other posts. What I am trying to do is remove the fud around this, where people are running around saying you won’t be able to get 80% frames/lowers without going through an FFL. The current rule will not impact your ability to get a standalone 80% frame/lower and it will not need to be serialized.

I hope you are right but I think you are wrong and even a government agency would not go through all this trouble to say "you must package these items separately". Haha but if this is fudd holy shit read what GOA said...

I think it's gonna be like armor piercing ammo - legal provided no pistol exists that runs it, ie legal for 50 bmg but not 9mm..

My belief is more likely the implementation is: If a jig exists for it then it's a firearm. So sure an 80% reciever isn't a gun, unless it's indexed to some jig and then it is.

 

[snd1t]

I am NOT making excuses for the Federal Government. Please read my other posts. What I am trying to do is remove the fud around this, where people are running around saying you won’t be able to get 80% frames/lowers without going through an FFL. The current rule will not impact your ability to get a standalone 80% frame/lower and it will not need to be serialized.

Read the rule, scroll down to about 320 onward.....the quote below is 329


View: https://www.scribd.com/document/569296907/ATF-Frame-Receiver-Final-Rule-1140-Aa54-2022-04-11#fullscreen&from_embed

Example 2— Frame or receiver:
A partially complete billet or blank of a frame or receiver with one or more template holes drilled or indexed in the correct location is a frame or receiver, as a person with common hand tools may readily complete the billet or blank to function as a frame or receiver.

If the rule survives court challenges then there will be no more 80% lowers

You'll be able to purchase a casting with no holes/etc.....but thats about as complete a lower as will be permitted under the new rule.

Furthermore....the rule clearly states that AR's will remain as is....with the lower reciever being the part that is to be serialized.....they also state clearly that only ONE part is to be serialized as the firearm......

Folks need to stop freaking out about the false rumors/panic that AR Uppers will be serialized.....they're not.....at least not as part of this current rule change

 

[cathouse01]

Read the rule, scroll down to about 320 onward.....the quote below is 329


View: https://www.scribd.com/document/569296907/ATF-Frame-Receiver-Final-Rule-1140-Aa54-2022-04-11#fullscreen&from_embed




If the rule survives court challenges then there will be no more 80% lowers

You'll be able to purchase a casting with no holes/etc.....but thats about as complete a lower as will be permitted under the new rule.

Furthermore....the rule clearly states that AR's will remain as is....with the lower reciever being the part that is to be serialized.....they also state clearly that only ONE part is to be serialized as the firearm......

Folks need to stop freaking out about the false rumors/panic that AR Uppers will be serialized.....they're not.....at least not as part of this current rule change

But go down a bit further to example 4:

Example 4— Not a receiver: A billet or blank of an AR-15 variant receiver without critical interior areas having been indexed, machined, or formed that is not sold, distributed, or possessed with instructions, jigs, templates, equipment, or tools such that it may readily be completed is not a receiver.

If you read the whole thing, the template holes they are talking about are the trigger pin holes and the safety selector hole. As long as they are not drilled or indexed with a dimple to show you where to drill.

Example 4 is what we’ve normally been getting as an 80% lower. It’s not milled out for the FCG and there are no marks indicating where you should drill the trigger pin holes and the safety hole. You need a separate jig to properly position.

 

[xtry51]

This move is not intended as a checkmate. It's intended to get the camels nose under the tent allowing ATF to arbitrarily create law from thin air. If they can do this, they can redefine what a gun is at will and at the whim of whatever tyrant is in power.

 

[cathouse01]

This move is not intended as a checkmate. It's intended to get the camels nose under the tent allowing ATF to arbitrarily create law from thin air. If they can do this, they can redefine what a gun is at will and at the whim of whatever tyrant is in power.

This is absolutely true.

 

[AMV]

I think this is mostly all for show, break down those p80 kit into individual components that require a little leg work to acquire all the parts and some effort to gain the knowledge to finnish, everyone is back in the game. 80% receivers have been a thing for well over 20+ years back when we had the cast 80% AR receivers, 1911's, SIG 229's 10/22's and AK's,..... but now you have instructors offering classes to make your own glock and shoot same day, just getting a bit too easy for the non firearm enthusiast to make, so people aren't doing it just for personal use anymore. really wasn't hard to see this coming,

wonder if they will be looking for the excise tax on the kit if they consider them complete firearms

 

[apander]

I think this is mostly all for show, break down those p80 kit into individual components that require a little leg work to acquire all the parts and some effort to gain the knowledge to finnish, everyone is back in the game. 80% receivers have been a thing for well over 20+ years back when we had the cast 80% AR receivers, 1911's, SIG 229's 10/22's and AK's,..... but now you have instructors offering classes to make your own glock and shoot same day, just getting a bit too easy for the non firearm enthusiast to make, so people aren't doing it just for personal use anymore. really wasn't hard to see this coming,

wonder if they will be looking for the excise tax on the kit if they consider them complete firearms

But, But brandon said today ANYBODY with a Drill and 30 minutes can make a ghost gun at the kitchen table, among all his other lies!

 

[xtry51]

Crump is saying after reading the entire letter and consulting several prominent attorneys 80s will be banned in 120 days because the letter states the ATF is revoking/voiding all previous 80% approval letters and all vendors will be required to resubmit their 80s for approval again.


View: https://youtu.be/xa1tPiziB98