ATF intends to reclassify and ban "armor piercing" ammo including M855

[Royal]

The major text of this new ruling is that with the proliferation of AR pistols, thus ammo now falls into the classic definition of AP.

I blame all the clowns writing letters for AR braces

This is what my take away was from it as well. It's quite a stretch, however, considering they've backtracked on braces.

 

[mac1911]

They will keep chipping at it until we are reduced to 22lr@ 400fps.
I see a phrase more and more....." high capacity ammunition" I don't believe this is,spoken of stupidity. Redefine the meanings as ATF can do with out any over sight and hi cap ammo will make the list.

We either have to get back to the laws of the constitution or we are screwed.

 

[Rancho]

Luckily I just bought 1000 rds on sale.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

Why is it at the first mention of .Gov oversteping their boundary and committing blatant abuses, the first reaction from the gun owner community is

"Quick I need to buy more!"

And,

"Hey, I'm a dealer you need to buy this quickly"

If these efforts where used to possibly prevent this stupidity from happening to begin with, wouldn't we have to worry about panic buying anything.

As others have pointed out, this is not about "armor piercing ammo" It's about us being pushed around because we will simply take it.

The Fudds dont care

The preppers are maxing out their credit cards

The shooter just says "oh well, at least I can still buy _______"

All the while, we are pushed around unjustly by yet another 3 letter agency.

I'm not sure how to fix this, or make it better, but panic buying won't fix a damn thing

 

[Bob P]

The whole "armor piercing" law shit is all about soft armor, kevlar etc. Just about ANY centerfire rifle round will go through that. Eugh.

The law bans AP pistol ammo. Because 5.56 is used in some pistols it comes under the law.

 

[not new guy]

Why is it at the first mention of .Gov oversteping their boundary and committing blatant abuses, the first reaction from the gun owner community is

"Quick I need to buy more!"

And,

"Hey, I'm a dealer you need to buy this quickly"

If these efforts where used to possibly prevent this stupidity from happening to begin with, wouldn't we have to worry about panic buying anything.

As others have pointed out, this is not about "armor piercing ammo" It's about us being pushed around because we will simply take it.

The Fudds dont care

The preppers are maxing out their credit cards

The shooter just says "oh well, at least I can still buy _______"

All the while, we are pushed around unjustly by yet another 3 letter agency.

I'm not sure how to fix this, or make it better, but panic buying won't fix a damn thing

To be fair, the action options aren't exclusive of each other. You can buy and try to stop it, and if you think you might need/want to buy at some point you'd be a fool not to buy early and beat the rush, assuming prices haven't yet gone full Biden.

 

[Varmint]

I haven't bought M855 cause I thought it wasn't allowed at most ranges, is that untrue?

Agree we should not let this slide, they will never stop attacking 2A from any angle and any means.

 

[Bob P]

Write to them please. They contemplated this once before and backed off. Since the Grabber in Chief isn't running for re-election that may not work this time but do it anyway. Don't just roll over.

 

[shadowr434]

Next we'll need to prove that we had our xm855 prior to the ban. Who keeps or evens gets a receipt for private ammo purchases, or any ammo purchases for that matter? If one of us uses this ammo after the cut off date to protect out lives, they'll say that we broke the law by using banned ammo and that we violated another law. What's next!

Call me crazy or a conspiracy nut but I believe, it wont be long before we are giving them our ammo, by firing it at them. I think its only a matter of time now.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

To be fair, the action options aren't exclusive of each other. You can buy and try to stop it, and if you think you might need/want to buy at some point you'd be a fool not to buy early and beat the rush, assuming prices haven't yet gone full Biden.

My post was not a personal attack on anyone or any business.... just an observation of how these things seem to go

 

[pdm]

Ban the ****ing ATF.

 

[bigblue]

Write to them please. They contemplated this once before and backed off. Since the Grabber in Chief isn't running for re-election that may not work this time but do it anyway. Don't just roll over.

Can you give us an idea what to say? I want to write but I don't wan't my arguments to backfire and cause more of a problem by expanding their ban.

 

[Bob P]

Here's a summary of what I said

Dear sir or madam,

The on the removal of the sporting exemption on M855 ammunition should NOT move forward. This is the most popular bullet weight in this caliber for accuracy and performance. This is NOT an armor piercing round even by the legal definition as the round has a lead core, not one of the metals called out in the law.

This is an overstepping of authority that will do nothing to make the public safer. It will merely make life more difficult for millions of law abiding gun owners.

 

[Dadstoys]

Perhaps a more effective strategy is to start writing congress critters regarding the ATF's funding at budget time.
As long as O is in office they will do what they are told.
Complaining to them directly is pissing up a rope.

 

[bigblue]

Here's a summary of what I said

Dear sir or madam,

The on the removal of the sporting exemption on M855 ammunition should NOT move forward. This is the most popular bullet weight in this caliber for accuracy and performance. This is NOT an armor piercing round even by the legal definition as the round has a lead core, not one of the metals called out in the law.

This is an overstepping of authority that will do nothing to make the public safer. It will merely make life more difficult for millions of law abiding gun owners.

Ok, I was going to say something about 855 relying on high velocity, a factor that is negated by firing it through a pistol length barrel. I didn't want that to open a whole new can of worms.

- - - Updated - - -

Perhaps a more effective strategy is to start writing congress critters regarding the ATF's funding at budget time.
As long as O is in office they will do what they are told.
Complaining to them directly is pissing up a rope.

No actually its not with the case of the ATF. Specifically, the ATF is required to respond personally to every single comment. The more comments they receive, the more work for them and historically they have heeded the public's comments when given the chance.

 

[white feather]

What a joke. I guess XM855 goes through things that .308 doesn't.

Just wait. Remington, Wichita, (and others) have made .308 pistols...

 

[Bob P]

There's a thread here where some NESers were torture testing some Body armor plates against steel. The M193 burned through the steel where the 855 bounced off. Irony.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I haven't bought M855 cause I thought it wasn't allowed at most ranges, is that untrue?

Agree we should not let this slide, they will never stop attacking 2A from any angle and any means.

Most clubs allow it, some may not.

However when a lot of FUDD clubs hear about this proposal, you can expect those clubs to ban its use there as well.

 

[pdm]

Hmm. I just scanned through the PDF, they are full pants-on head wearing retarded.

 

[the_shootist]

SO, I can certainly understand the concern here. I have no official 'armor piercing' ammo but I do have lots of .308, 30.06, 762x39 and 762x54r. Me thinks the kevlar vests are no match for that type of ammo. While I wouldn't tell anyone not to stock up on the .223 armor piercing stuff, that's not really something I see myself having a lot of interest in....but that just me

 

[AllaSnackbah]

This is ridiculous

 

[shadowr434]

Here's a summary of what I said

Dear sir or madam,

The proposal on the removal of the sporting exemption on M855 ammunition should NOT move forward. This is the most popular bullet weight in this caliber for accuracy and performance. This is NOT an armor piercing round even by the legal definition as the round has a lead core, not one of the metals called out in the law.

This is an overstepping of authority that will do nothing to make the public safer. It will merely make life more difficult for millions of law abiding gun owners.

Thanks. I added the word proposal because I could see something was missing there but used it for my email to them.

 

[bigblue]

Hmm. I just scanned through the PDF, they are full pants-on head wearing retarded.

Yes, yes they are. Fortunately, their tactics are very predictable and their logic fourth grade education at best (the whole argument of use transforming a firearm or the 80% lower debacle are examples). This has put them in tight situations with the courts in recent years but I'm not sure we will have enough on this one.

Their argument falls in line with previous examples where the use of an item transforms it into something else. Ie. because M855 can be shot through a pistol sized AR it is suddenly pistol ammo. Personally I don't think the courts will buy this argument but time will tell.

On another note, M855 relies on higher velocity to be effective so it should be LESS effective when shot through an AR pistol. M193 is a far more effective round inside 200 yards as the vast majority of studies has shown.

The whole ATF argument is a complete fallacy and is simply aimed at angering the gun community and exacting some revenge for ATF debacles with pistol braces and 80% lowers.

IMHO

 

[DrRansom]

No actually its not with the case of the ATF. Specifically, the ATF is required to respond personally to every single comment. The more comments they receive, the more work for them and historically they have heeded the public's comments when given the chance.

Correct, in this case, writing in to them is absolutely worth the time and the best course of action. Google around for the "41P" ATF stuff and see; enough comments and the action can be suspended almost indefinitely.

 

[GM-GUY]

This is not the end, either we fight - EVERYTHING or we loose EVERYTHING, maybe not today or tomorrow, but our kids will be lucky to own a 22.

My 300 Weatherby with 180 Grain Barnes X bullets - any guesses on what that does to alot of things call 'armor' and 'bullet resistant'?

Ted Kennedy used to come up will bills that went after the M855 as well as most hunting rounds - you could basically use lead with no jacket if his bills would have passed - in California that would leave you nothing now.

DO YOU SEE A PLAN YET!?!?

btw: I have 2K of M855/SS109 and 4K of M193 as well as other assorted - come and get them - but be ready to catch them.......

 

[mikem317]

Well, that escalated quickly...

 

[xtry51]

Sporting purposes? Yeah I don't need to read any further than that.

I don't write letters about things like this because it would read "We have a right to buy any type of ammunition we want to use to shoot people like you with."

Don't wrote letters. Just buy more ammo and train more.

 

[The5thDentist]

Stand and fight, yet again!

ATF has got to go. We definitely should be working on the "defund the ATF" letters to the House and Senate. And since the Congress Critters from MA and other libtard states won't listen, send your letters to senators and congressmen from pro 2A states.

 

[Bob P]

Sporting purposes? Yeah I don't need to read any further than that.

I don't write letters about things like this because it would read "We have a right to buy any type of ammunition we want to use to shoot people like you with."

Don't wrote letters. Just buy more ammo and train more.

Why make it easy for them. Do both. Make them answer the damned email and train more. Email takes 2 minutes. The 'sporting purposes' is the same language they use turned back on them.

 

[Mass-diver]

Awful

I don't even like M855, now I have to panic buy a couple cases just in case my taste changes in the future.