Army chooses Sig Sauer to build Next Generation Squad Weapon.

[Picton]

I thought only officers carry handguns anymore?

Not in the unit I was in.

Machine gunners only. My BC disapproved of officers carrying pistols, unless on nontactical jumps.

 

[PappyM3]

I thought only officers carry handguns anymore?

Depends on the unit and its MTOE.

In mechanized infantry, there are only two pistols per company. Which honestly doesn’t make sense because mounted crews should have them.

Tankers all get pistols.

Light infantry weapon squads/machine gun teams get pistols.

Headquarters companies get lots of pistols.

 

[Dench]

I carried both a pistol and a rifle and I was just some random e4. f***.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

Another new cartridge...... like there aren't enough to pick from already. But when your printing money.... I guess cost is no object.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

277 Fury or 6.8x51mm.

Ahhh the 7mm 08 but with a really expensive proprietary high pressure case. Sounds like the military to me.
The Sig fan boys and tactical timmies will step in to explain why it’s better.

 

[JRT]

Ahhh the 7mm 08 but with a really expensive proprietary high pressure case. Sounds like the military to me.
The Sig fan boys and tactical timmies will step in to explain why it’s better.

Maybe it has some cool properties although I can’t really see anything unique. If I had to guess, it’s a kind of brilliant move to sell the razor and the blades, the money is always made on the blades.

 

[PatMcD]

Ahhh the 7mm 08 but with a really expensive proprietary high pressure case. Sounds like the military to me.
The Sig fan boys and tactical timmies will step in to explain why it’s better.

Actually, it'd be 270-08. A caliber dimension NOBODY is using. Why they didn't use the 6.5-08 (260 Rem) or 7mm-08 is beyond me.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Actually, it'd be 270-08. A caliber dimension NOBODY is using. Why they didn't use the 6.5-08 (260 Rem) or 7mm-08 is beyond me.

Other than "because the government requested 6.8"?

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Maybe it has some cool properties although I can’t really see anything unique. If I had to guess, it’s a kind of brilliant move to sell the razor and the blades, the money is always made on the blades.

True. Especially if it’s patented and no one else can produce those blades for 10 years

Actually, it'd be 270-08. A caliber dimension NOBODY is using. Why they didn't use the 6.5-08 (260 Rem) or 7mm-08 is beyond me.

Close enough. A few thou different but for all intents and purposes. They want to carve out their own path and outshine the 6.5 man bun by a few curly hairs in some category of performance. Probably like JRT said. Some unwritten rule about being unique

 

[PappyM3]

True. Especially if it’s patented and no one else can produce those blades for 10 years


Close enough. A few thou different but for all intents and purposes. They want to carve out their own path and outshine the 6.5 man bun by a few curly hairs in some category of performance. Probably like JRT said. Some unwritten rule about being unique

All three performers were awarded contracts in order to develop the prototypes for testing. If the bi-metal 6.8x51 cartridge was developed using those funds, then the Army owns it, not Sig. But I don’t know if Sig already had the bi-metal cased cartridge when they bid to be an R&D performer, or if they used IRAD funds for the cartridge.

And as for not choosing the existing cartridges, the Army wanted a certain velocity from a certain length carbine. The bullet being 6.8mm was only one requirement for the cartridge. The velocity requirement is the biggest driver for a completely new cartridge.

I’m guessing the 6.8 number came from AMU’s research from 6.8 SPC. Existing verified and validated Army study data showed what the terminal ballistics of 6.8 could be. It showed a happy medium between barrier penetration and external ballistics/coefficient of drag. So the Army chose that instead of spending more money on an additional bullet study.

 

[Parker Schreiber]

I’m guessing the 6.8 number came from AMU’s research from 6.8 SPC. Existing verified and validated Army study data showed what the terminal ballistics of 6.8 could be. It showed a happy medium between barrier penetration and external ballistics/coefficient of drag. So the Army chose that instead of spending more money on an additional bullet study.

The studies I saw gave a range of "goldilocks" calibers, typically between 6.5mm and 7mm. As you might expect, the choice was made by multiple committees, but I think "not invented here" was a major factor. The 6.8mm projectile required by the spec was developed at the Picatinny Arsenal. Part of the bidding process included a license agreement for the ammunition -- I haven't seen what Sig offered.

 

[AHM]

... the Army usually cleans weapons obsessively. FAR beyond the point of common sense or utility, even to the point of shortening the life of the weapons system sometimes.

Recruits passing around a chamber brush chucked in an electric drill to get their M-16 spotless for their DI.

... a lot of the tech they're hanging off rifles nowadays is pretty useful in contact. But I also think 99% of an infantryman's time is spent NOT in contact. That's a lot of time for things to get lost or damaged because Joe is bored, and using his $10k optic to lean out the barracks window to peer at the female MPs doing PT a couple streets over. And, of course, he'll drop that optic right out that window. Again, don't mind me. I'm a curmudgeon... a curmudgeon who once used a hugely expensive pair of Steiner binos to peer at female MPs.

... When we deployed to Bosnia in 2001 many rifles were deadlined for issues with machine finish on chamber.

Hand-me-downs from boot camp? (See above).

Another new cartridge...... like there aren't enough to pick from already. But when your printing money.... I guess cost is no object.

Hope Sig remembered to inflation-index the bid.
Consider who they are contracting with...

 

[Picton]

Recruits passing around a chamber brush chucked in an electric drill to get their M-16 spotless for their DI.

I wish these had existed when I was in the Army. It would have made my life SO much easier.

 

[mav]

Sounds like the XOs and armorers were not doing their jobs.

Nah, we just got crap passed on to us that no one else wanted and wouldn’t pass muster in the Active Army. We were treated like the red-headed step child by the Pentagon and MAANG leadership. You should have seen the M60’s our machine gun squad fielded or the M249’s we eventually got.

I remember when I transferred from a 19D to 11B at the time MAANG was transitioning all Armor/Cav to Artillery Gunbunnies. When my CO found out I was transferring to the 104th he pulled me aside and asked me “Are you sure about that move?” At the time I thought it was strange…

 

[mav]

Not us and our A2's were A1 lowers with an A2 upper. I was in 104 INF from 96 to 2007 I think which is when the State retired the colors and we joined the 181. When we deployed to Bosnia in 2001 many rifles were deadlined for issues with machine finish on chamber.

We were in the 104th same time, ‘96-02, except for the 2 years I was with Michigan ANG. What company? I was Bravo out of Greenfield.

 

[PappyM3]

Nah, we just got crap passed on to us that no one else wanted and wouldn’t pass muster in the Active Army. We were treated like the red-headed step child by the Pentagon and MAANG leadership. You should have seen the M60’s our machine gun squad fielded or the M240’s we eventually got.

I remember when I transferred from a 19D to 11B at the time MAANG was transitioning all Armor/Cav to Artillery Gunbunnies. When my CO found out I was transferring to the 104th he pulled me aside and asked me “Are you sure about that move?” At the time I thought it was strange…

My point is the XO and armorer should have had the weapons inspected by the small arms repairer when they were received and had replacement parts installed by the small arms repairer. And then they should have been gauged and inspected at regular intervals. It doesn’t matter if they were hand-me-down guns from active duty. It was on the XO and armorer to ensure they were inspected and repaired at the required intervals.

 

[FancyGunz]

"The decision to pursue an intermediate caliber round came out of the Small Arms Ammunition Configuration Study, which emerged from concerns about body armor improvements among Russian and potentially Chinese troops."

Yes, the RUSSIANS, whose ground troops have become the laughing stock of the world.....

 

[mikeboston]

Does this mean that the AR15 will no longer be a “weapon of war?”

 

[AHM]

I wish these had existed when I was in the Army. It would have made my life SO much easier.

Are you some kind of anti-J6-insurrectionist deep-state persecutor?
I hear the Donk hearings are using Star Chamber pads
to torture Soccer Moms who took a selfie under the Capitol rotunda,
and then headed out for tea.

 

[paul73]

My BC disapproved of officers carrying pistols, unless on nontactical jumps.

my grandfather used to tell me that a pistol is not a weapon - it is an officer`s personal item.
to be used for a same purpose a samurai carries a short sword.

 

[AHM]

my grandfather used to tell me that a pistol is not a weapon - it is an officer`s personal item.
to be used for a same purpose a samurai carries a short sword.

Was he never in a Moro-rich environment?

Spoiler: (Artist's conception)

 

[Zappa]

View: https://youtu.be/X7HomeiXESA

 

[cathouse01]

Does this mean that the AR15 will no longer be a “weapon of war?”

I know it’s sarcasm, but I still have to say: Never was (at least the Colt AR15).

 

[Mesatchornug]

I know it’s sarcasm, but I still have to say: Never was (at least the Colt AR15).

If we're being pedantic, there's record of some select-fire CAR-15s being fielded experimentally, before the M-16 designator was given. Still, the semiautomatic models we use today were never "weapons of war"

 

[KBCraig]

Does this mean that the AR15 will no longer be a “weapon of war?”

"M5 looks just the same to me!"
~Shannon Watts

 

[KBCraig]

The ammo market is going to get interesting.

I don't think that's a good thing.

 

[mav]

The ammo market is going to get interesting.

I don't think that's a good thing.

The number of AR15's in civilian hands and the number of M16/M4's currently in service plus the glacially slow pace of big Army doing anything means 5.56 will be plentiful for years to come.

 

[drgrant]

The ammo market is going to get interesting.

I don't think that's a good thing.

Meh, if this actually takes off itll be just another column of weird stuff at the gun store only 5% buy, like 6.5 Kardashian.

 

[40 Creedmoor fan]

The number of AR15's in civilian hands and the number of M16/M4's currently in service

Is about 10:1. A couple of fun facts to make everyone stop fretting about 223/556 ammo availability:

• There are about 100 million AR rifles in civilian circulation in the US alone. They will need ammo for a foreseeable future.
• There are 1.3 million serving in US Army. Not everyone in the Army is issued an M4. Even if the Army switches everyone to 6.8, that's just 1% of the total AR market.
• US Military consumes/stockpiles/buys 3-4 million rounds of small arms ammo(5.56, 9mm, etc) annually. US civilian market consumes 30+ million rounds of small ammo.
• If US gun owners were an army, it would have more ammo and arms than ALL world militaries combined!
• The US has the civilian equivalent of Green Berets/Navy Seals/etc. They're called Rednecks! If someone is foolish enough,

 

[drgrant]

Even if some trigger puller types actually do get to see use of these guns (which, given DOD history, is automatically questionable to begin with) thats probably going to only supplant a small % of the in use rifles/carbines in service. It'll be piss in the wind compared to overall 5.56 guns.