Anyone else see this at North Station?

[Bill Nance]

Bill, I agree with you but you are being a little disengenuous. The photo you posted is not of "Patrol Officers". It is of some sort of "Specialized" Unit. That is not how the officers in that city dress while on patrol.

You're right, it was the best pic off a quick search of google to illustrate a point. That being said I've seen police on the streets of Boston dressed in "scarier" looking gear. (Especially since they weren't overweight and looking like Elmer Fudd gone tacticool)

Happily I've rarely seen cops here in Lowell dressed that way. The coffee and sodas would still be forthcoming, but so probably would a lecture on the relationship of police to citizens....Cause I'm a crusty lecturing kinda guy. WTH, the guys on patrol here seem to like it. Probably cause they're trying to figure out the pony-tail, the guns, the libertarian ideal and the support for the cops all in one package.

 

[GSG]

its clothing, who cares. If they wear the traditional MSP uniform many here will say they look like WWII Nazi's. If they wear BDU's they are representing a police state. There is no winning.

+1. I've never heard a gang banger or a grandmother say "That cops uniform was really scary." Funny, only people on the Internet mention such things.

When I see a cop dressed like he's in downtown Mosul, (And not the gun as much as the BDU/Tactical gear) That entire image goes out the window. I'm trying to imagine telling my daughter the police are her friend etc and then pointing to this:

http : / / www . geocities . com / tacticaloperationsteam /tacopsteam2004. jpg

Bill, that's the URL of the picture you linked to, emphasis mine.

 

[Lamina]

BTW, for clarification, that's Charlotte, Michigan, a small town of 8000 outside Lansing, not Charlotte NC.

which then really begs the question... why do they feel they need their little swat team?

 

[Friday]

Maybe we're just looking for different things, or just went to the same places on different days. All I can say is whenever I see a street cop in tacticool gear I'm reminded of the last time I visited Guatemala......I don't want to live in Guatemala.

Try the Paris underground at closing, the nice men (and their dogs) will kindly show you the door- quickly- with the end of their rifles. (no, the dogs don't have rifles )

 

[vellnueve]

which then really begs the question... why do they feel they need their little swat team?

There's nothing else to do?

 

[cekim]

There's nothing else to do?

Nothing else other than burn through those sweet Federal Funds...

 

[GSG]

which then really begs the question... why do they feel they need their little swat team?

You should ask them.

 

[Lamina]

You should ask them.

you're absolutely right, I should. I'm going to work up an email... someone have a contact link for those heroes?

 

[GSG]

you're absolutely right, I should. I'm going to work up an email... someone have a contact link for those heroes?

I can do you one better.

Their website has a phone number and address.

Charlotte Police Department
111 E. Lawrence Avenue
Charlotte, Michigan 48813
[517] 543-1552
William Callahan, Chief of Police

 

[vellnueve]

I can one-up you both:

The late Lieutenant Lon Howe founded the Tactical Operations Team in 1989, after recognizing the need for such a team. At that time the City had obtained a grant funding a full-time narcotics investigator.

In addition to the services a tactical team could provide for drug warrants, the Department had also experienced two stand-offs with armed individuals. In one of these incidents it was necessary to request the Michigan State Police Emergency Response Team. This incident was resolved peacefully, and without injury. Charlotte patrol officers also resolved the second incident peacefully and without injury.

Lieutenant Howe was able to show the need for the formation of a tactical team. Once he had obtained the go-ahead, he went about putting together an eight-member team. Three of those eight original members are still on the team; another of the original members is now Chief of Police.

Definitely looks low-budget though. A geocities website, an ex-military ambulance as a transport, Army-Navy store BDUs and equipment, and Grena... Glocks.

 

[Lamina]

I can do you one better.

Their website has a phone number and address.

awesome. I'm going to figure out something to write them, and for sure it'll up my spot on the DHS watch lists.

 

[Lamina]

I can one-up you both:



Definitely looks low-budget though. A geocities website, an ex-military ambulance as a transport, Army-Navy store BDUs and equipment, and Grena... Glocks.

since when is 8K people considered a "city"?

2 standoffs, one of which they had to call in the big boys for. that guy was prob armed with a slingshot... made him a real threat... not like the dude with the nerf gun before him.

 

[Lamina]

OMFG. they have the .MIDI for the law and order theme as their "some music for you to enjoy while you browse".

clowns.

 

[vellnueve]

since when is 8K people considered a "city"?

2 standoffs, one of which they had to call in the big boys for. that guy was prob armed with a slingshot... made him a real threat... not like the dude with the nerf gun before him.

Small towns can have real standoffs too. Seems like they took the lowest budget path possible to having their own SWAT team.

 

[Lamina]

Small towns can have real standoffs too. Seems like they took the lowest budget path possible to having their own SWAT team.

sure they can have real standoffs. but they don't usually, which is why a cost/risk analysis leaves most PD's for town of 8K without "swat" teams. of course, none of that matters when uncle sam is handing out grants like a drunk sailor to fight the "war" on drugs.

 

[cekim]

none of that matters when uncle sam is handing out grants like a drunk sailor to fight the "war" on drugs.

Bingo...

Even worse under the "use it or lose it" policy of many federal hand-outs...

 

[Lamina]

Bingo...

Even worse under the "use it or lose it" policy of many federal hand-outs...

well, how do you justify a need for more funds to fight the "WAR"? simple, you make lots of drug arrests... that shows you have a problem, right?

 

[vellnueve]

ARs aside, it looks like their "tactical operations team" probably cost about $500 to get geared up.

 

[cekim]

ARs aside, it looks like their "tactical operations team" probably cost about $500 to get geared up.

Reasonable estimate, but I bet the grant was bigger - the question is how many rounds of beers can you buy with the difference?

 

[Coyote33]

How good are those "chinos" going to look covered in grease and grass stains?

How comfortable are they to run in and fight in?

Are we talking about mechanics and gardeners/football players, or are we talking about local police officers? How many police officers actually "run" and "fight" on a day to day basis? Really now.

 

[cekim]

Are we talking about mechanics and gardeners/football players, or are we talking about local police officers? How many police officers actually "run" and "fight" on a day to day basis? Really now.

Depends on their assignment... Some are much more active than others...

K9's for instance, at least in the departments I know of, have as much as a full day of training each week. Lots of running, rolling with the dog.

As they are a "shared resource" amongst the other patrol officers, they get called to many scenes in a typical day and as such are more likely to be tumbling around than a typical patrol officer...

 

[vellnueve]

Are we talking about mechanics and gardeners/football players, or are we talking about local police officers? How many police officers actually "run" and "fight" on a day to day basis? Really now.

The thing about their job is that they never know when they'll be needed to run into a combat situation and fight... thus, they have to be ready at all times.

 

[Blitz1]

Reasonable estimate, but I bet the grant was bigger - the question is how many [STRIKE]rounds[/STRIKE] Kegs of beer can you buy with the difference?

Fixed it for ya.

 

[Coyote33]

The thing about their job is that they never know when they'll be needed to run into a combat situation and fight... thus, they have to be ready at all times.

Ready is different than grass stains on your knees. Mom used to take care of those for me when I was a kid. Geez Louise. Again, this is for most local town cops, who mostly do speeding tickets and motor vehicle stuff. They put on sweats or shorts to run.

 

[Half Cocked]

Ready is different than grass stains on your knees. Mom used to take care of those for me when I was a kid. Geez Louise. Again, this is for most local town cops, who mostly do speeding tickets and motor vehicle stuff. They put on sweats or shorts to run.

You apparently have no idea what functions an average LEO performs during a shift that results in them getting dirty and or damaging clothing.

I will make it easier. How about changing someones flat tire on the side of the road in the rain. How would those "chinos" look to you when the officer, after changing the tire, responds to your house to take the complaint about the census worker trespassing on your property?

 

[Half Cocked]

Again, this is for most local town cops, who mostly do speeding tickets and motor vehicle stuff. They put on sweats or shorts to run.

Yeah...when that guy bails out of the stolen car that the LEO pulled over for speeding the LEO goes home to change into his shorts....I must have missed that class in the academy....

 

[ochmude]

its clothing, who cares. If they wear the traditional MSP uniform many here will say they look like WWII Nazi's. If they wear BDU's they are representing a police state. There is no winning.

A big +1 for this. As I see it, saying a tactical uniform makes a cop look too "paramilitary" is on par with saying a bayonet lug and pistol grip make a sporting rifle look too "assault rifle". It's just clothing, it's not that scary.

 

[GSG]

IDefinitely looks low-budget though. A geocities website, an ex-military ambulance as a transport, Army-Navy store BDUs and equipment, and Grena... Glocks.

The Charlotte Police Department has 18 employees. Nine guys on the team (in the picture, although what you quoted says 8). Either way, that's half the department or less. It seems like they're just regular officers with an extra designation/training for situations where being trained tactically could save some lives.

since when is 8K people considered a "city"?

2 standoffs, one of which they had to call in the big boys for. that guy was prob armed with a slingshot... made him a real threat... not like the dude with the nerf gun before him.

Since when is 65,000 people considered a "town?" The town of Framingham is.

Look at the Carl Drega incident. That happened in Bow N.H., a town with a population of 7,000. That's a situation that would call for a tactical response, in a municipality even smaller than the one in question.

Slingshots and Nerf guns? Were you there? Big cities aren't the only place SWAT teams are needed, and they get used for a lot more than drug raids.

Are we talking about mechanics and gardeners/football players, or are we talking about local police officers? How many police officers actually "run" and "fight" on a day to day basis? Really now.

Whether they do it 10 times a day or once a month isn't the issue. Ruining one uniform a month or one a day is going to cost the department a ton of money in the long run.

If you're interested to know what your local PD does on a daily basis, buy a scanner and monitor their frequencies. You'd be amazed how much goes on that doesn't make it into the newspapers.

 

[Lamina]

The Charlotte Police Department has 18 employees. Nine guys on the team (in the picture, although what you quoted says 8). Either way, that's half the department or less. It seems like they're just regular officers with an extra designation/training for situations where being trained tactically could save some lives.



Since when is 65,000 people considered a "town?" The town of Framingham is.

Look at the Carl Drega incident. That happened in Bow N.H., a town with a population of 7,000. That's a situation that would call for a tactical response, in a municipality even smaller than the one in question.

Slingshots and Nerf guns? Were you there? Big cities aren't the only place SWAT teams are needed, and they get used for a lot more than drug raids.



Whether they do it 10 times a day or once a month isn't the issue. Ruining one uniform a month or one a day is going to cost the department a ton of money in the long run.

If you're interested to know what your local PD does on a daily basis, buy a scanner and monitor their frequencies. You'd be amazed how much goes on that doesn't make it into the newspapers.

make you a deal... when you can show me ANY "swat" or "stop" team anywhere outside of NH that exists on the municipal level and is used for more hard threat call outs than they are used for serving drug warrants, I may feel that their existence is justified.

 

[Half Cocked]

make you a deal... when you can show me ANY "swat" or "stop" team anywhere outside of NH that exists on the municipal level and is used for more hard threat call outs than they are used for serving drug warrants, I may feel that their existence is justified.

Are you serious?

Ever hear of LAPD SWAT and Dallas SWAT, NYPD ESU?