Anyone else see this at North Station?

[Bill Nance]

Yes.... those same STOP team, K9 and bomb squad members also work details..... .

Does it bother no one that the police, who used to wear a blue (or brown or whatever) non-threatening uniform now patrol our comparatively safe streets looking like they're in f***ing downtown Mosul? It honestly feels like a police state. Not that it *is* but the unis alone make it feel that way.

 

[Friday]

Do any of you guys ever get over to Europe? Ever walked through any of the major airports or train stations? Pretty common to see tactical forces, toting full auto weapons, all dressed up in their ninja suits. Most folks don't give them a second glance.

Random acts of terrorism have been around a lot longer in the EU than over here. I truly hope it stays that way here, but we've been lucky.

I'm not sure why having LEOs prepared for potential bad situations is any worse than us going CCW to protect ourselves from the same potential threats.

As the previous poster mentions, having these guys on the street corners may serve the wrong message, but in places such as stations and airports, it may send the right message.

besides, it the black BDU really that much worse than looking like they're ready to invade Poland?

 

[cekim]

Does it bother no one that the police, who used to wear a blue (or brown or whatever) non-threatening uniform now patrol our comparatively safe streets looking like they're in f***ing downtown Mosul?

See my comment - that's my point exactly... It is a profound mistake on their part to perpetuate the military image in a police force...

 

[Bill Nance]

Do any of you guys ever get over to Europe? Ever walked through any of the major airports or train stations? Pretty common to see tactical forces, toting full auto weapons, all dressed up in their ninja suits. Most folks don't give them a second glance.

Random acts of terrorism have been around a lot longer in the EU than over here. I truly hope it stays that way here, but we've been lucky.

I'm not sure why having LEOs prepared for potential bad situations is any worse than us going CCW to protect ourselves from the same potential threats.

As the previous poster mentions, having these guys on the street corners may serve the wrong message, but in places such as stations and airports, it may send the right message.

besides, it the black BDU really that much worse than looking like they're ready to invade Poland?

We actually travel to the EU pretty frequently and no, I don't recall Heathrow, Gatwick or Schiphol showing all kinds of cops in full tactical gear. The most "militarized" I've seen have been the Germans and Brits, wearing regular cop unis with vests over them carrying MP5s, in the case of the Brits this was the ones patrolling in front of Parliament and in the case of the Germans (Back when the Bader Meinhoff was exploding bombs every few weeks) in airports.

But in freakin South Station? gimme a break. If that's a big-time target then so is everyplace in the country where large crowds gather. And I didn't notice the anaheim PD walking around Disneyland with BDUs and MP5s.

 

[Garys]

A member of the STOP team who happened to make a motor vehicle stop. Nothing more than that.

Or K-9, or maybe even truck team, although they usually drive Expeditions.

 

[Mr. Rogers]

..ill show her mine and see if it rings any bells.

let her take it for a test drive!

 

[vellnueve]

Bill Nance, I have to disagree. The last time I was in Europe, each of the several countries I visited had fully decked out paramilitary police forces all over the place, and not just at the airport.

And it's not our police that "used to" wear blue uniforms. They still do. There are thousands of police officers in this state, and probably less than 1% wear "tactical" dress.

 

[Half Cocked]

I think it is a big mistake for everyone police and policed to put officers in military style uniforms for everyday patrol... They should command respect, not fear...

Someone please tell me of a Department/Town where their Police (with the exception of specialized units) dress in BDU's..........anyone.....anyone?

I have yet to see one.

 

[Half Cocked]

I understand about the uniforms as far as comfort and practicality go, I don't have an issue with that, but why black? Why not blue or grey or blue and grey? Cost?

Because black hides the stains. An officer can do their job of rolling around on the ground and get dirty and not necessarily look like crap.

And Black is a consistent color between manufacturers. Blues and greys vary between manufactuurers and you can end up with slight color variations between officers which would look like crap.

 

[vellnueve]

Because black hides the stains. An officer can do their job of rolling around on the ground and get dirty and not necessarily look like crap.

On the downside, that was one of the major reasons behind the new Navy Working Uniform (blue digital camo)

 

[cekim]

Someone please tell me of a Department/Town where their Police (with the exception of specialized units) dress in BDU's..........anyone.....anyone?

None that I know of up here, but various departments around the country have adopted it to varying degrees...

The point is that its use is becoming more and more common - as someone mentioned, I've seen the units that focus on tractor tailors on the highways wearing them.

Some departments do it for "special events" - IIRC correctly the Orlando/Orange County departments had large portions of their normal patrol in BDUs when they hosted the World Cup some years ago...

You are absolutely correct that most departments' patrol officers are wearing roughly the same uniforms they have for 20,30,40 years but the use of BDUs is on the rise and their use and the image that it projects (soldier rather than police officer) is a problem whether you like it or not...

 

[Coyote33]

...The uniform is about comfort and practicality....nothing more.

And stylish fashion statements.

They also cost a lot less.

What's wrong with a golf shirt and chinos? Really. What ever happened to the notion of "Community policing" and "friendliness"?

 

[GLOCK.Perfection]

Because black hides the stains. An officer can do their job of rolling around on the ground and get dirty and not necessarily look like crap.

And Black is a consistent color between manufacturers. Blues and greys vary between manufactuurers and you can end up with slight color variations between officers which would look like crap.

arent a lot of the guys in the unmarked SUV's and BDU's the DOT guys?

 

[Half Cocked]

arent a lot of the guys in the unmarked SUV's and BDU's the DOT guys?

Yes..the ones who are crawling around under tractor trailers getting covered in grease.

 

[Half Cocked]

What's wrong with a golf shirt and chinos? Really. What ever happened to the notion of "Community policing" and "friendliness"?

How good are those "chinos" going to look covered in grease and grass stains?

How comfortable are they to run in and fight in?

 

[cekim]

How good are those "chinos" going to look covered in grease and grass stains?

How comfortable are they to run in and fight in?

Screw it - dump the uniforms - jeans and T's it is

I understand what you are saying - heck, I've said it in my prior threads, but you seem to be taking it too far...

By your argument, patrol officers should be wearing BDUs, knee/elbow pads, full-face helmet, etc... Full Mall Ninja Red Man, "just in case" TM...

None of the people I know and love on the force had trouble with the uniform - if it got dirty and destroyed - they put on another one...

 

[Bill Nance]

Bill Nance, I have to disagree. The last time I was in Europe, each of the several countries I visited had fully decked out paramilitary police forces all over the place, and not just at the airport.

And it's not our police that "used to" wear blue uniforms. They still do. There are thousands of police officers in this state, and probably less than 1% wear "tactical" dress.

Maybe we're just looking for different things, or just went to the same places on different days. All I can say is whenever I see a street cop in tacticool gear I'm reminded of the last time I visited Guatemala......I don't want to live in Guatemala.

 

[Len-2A Training]

And Black is a consistent color between manufacturers. Blues and greys vary between manufactuurers and you can end up with slight color variations between officers which would look like crap.

Boy are you ever right. I had 3 different shades of blue in my police shirts!
And they fade over time/washing, creating "new shades"!

Excellent point.

 

[cekim]

Boy are you ever right. I had 3 different shades of blue in my police shirts!
And they fade over time/washing, creating "new shades"!

From the civilian side, if you have two officers there to compare - odds are you are having a really bad day for one reason or the other and won't notice

p.s. black fades and varies too... But, this is why some departments choose darker colors (brown, navy, green) instead of white/light blue for their normal uniforms...

 

[vellnueve]

By your argument, patrol officers should be wearing BDUs, knee/elbow pads, full-face helmet, etc... Full Mall Ninja Red Man, "just in case" TM...

Patrol officers don't have the same duties as the STOP teams or bomb squads either...

As for the transit police, you can make the argument that some of the areas they work in (Ruggles) ARE warzones.

 

[cekim]

Patrol officers don't have the same duties as the STOP teams or bomb squads either...

Again, understood and noted in my posts... Just noting that Half Cocked seemed to be trying to make the case for everyone to be in BDUs...

As for the transit police, you can make the argument that some of the areas they work in (Ruggles) ARE warzones.

Indeed - and I will go on the record right now and say that no amount of police force in any clothing is going to "fix" that... The problem got started way up the hill...

 

[vellnueve]

Indeed - and I will go on the record right now and say that no amount of police force in any clothing is going to "fix" that... The problem got started way up the hill...

Well, fact is that they do a pretty good job taking them off the streets, then the courts do a lousy job of keeping them off...

 

[GLOCK.Perfection]

its clothing, who cares. If they wear the traditional MSP uniform many here will say they look like WWII Nazi's. If they wear BDU's they are representing a police state. There is no winning.

 

[Half Cocked]

Just noting that Half Cocked seemed to be trying to make the case for everyone to be in BDUs... .

NEGATIVE....... go back through past threads on this topic. I am against patrol officers wearing BDU's and am an advocate of the traditional police uniforms.

I am also a realist and undersand that they are not practical for all police functions. I will defend certain specialties in wearing practical uniforms.

There are some who think that all Detectives should wear shirts and ties. While this may sound good in theory it is not practical for all applications.

 

[cekim]

Well, fact is that they do a pretty good job taking them off the streets, then the courts do a lousy job of keeping them off...

My point is that the problem is bigger and will continue to grow - we can keep moving on this continuum of a police state all the way up to goose-stepping troops in the street and the black market culture continues to thrive and produce violence...

 

[cekim]

NEGATIVE....... go back through past threads on this topic. I am against patrol officers wearing BDU's and am an advocate of the traditional police uniforms.

I am also a realist and undersand that they are not practical for all police functions. I will defend certain specialties in wearing practical uniforms.

There are some who think that all Detectives should wear shirts and ties. While this may sound good in theory it is not practical for all applications.

In that case, I'll retract my criticism - I stand corrected - we are in complete agreement...

 

[Bill Nance]

To the cops posting on this thread, here's my beef:

I was raised to think of police as my friend. There to serve their community and keep the bad guys at bay as best they can. In my experience, that's just what they are. I was taught, and I taught my daughter, when in doubt, you can trust the police.

OK, as an adult I've learned some different things depending on the circumstances, but mostly that still holds true. The Lowell cops come to my house not infrequently (we don't live in a great neighborhood) are treated to coffee or soda if they want, a nice chat and go on their way.

When I see a cop dressed like he's in downtown Mosul, (And not the gun as much as the BDU/Tactical gear) That entire image goes out the window. I'm trying to imagine telling my daughter the police are her friend etc and then pointing to this:

What's the matter with this?

We need a police force, not a paramilitary force. We have a national guard for the latter. I'd rather see them deployed if needed than have our police, the people we depend on in our towns, people who are our neighbors and friends, turned into some Orwellian gestapo looking unit.

 

[Half Cocked]

When I see a cop dressed like he's in downtown Mosul, (And not the gun as much as the BDU/Tactical gear) That entire image goes out the window. I'm trying to imagine telling my daughter the police are her friend etc and then pointing to this:

Bill, I agree with you but you are being a little disengenuous. The photo you posted is not of "Patrol Officers". It is of some sort of "Specialized" Unit. That is not how the officers in that city dress while on patrol.

 

[Lamina]

what's hilarious about that photo is said "special unit" appears to be 80% overweight and using second rate gear. I've seen airsofters better outfit.

 

[vellnueve]

BTW, for clarification, that's Charlotte, Michigan, a small town of 8000 outside Lansing, not Charlotte NC.