Another moron with a gun

EddieCoyle said:
For my theoretical space, I pay an extra $25/month on my rent and that gives me the right to that space. The person parked there pays nothing, and therefore has "stolen" my $25. Would you shoot him?
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Not without getting his car keys first.

But something Yelena said earlier in this thread, and reinforced in subsequent posts, has me grasping for a quote I remember, vaguely, from my youth.

I seem to recall that it was the philosopher Jean Jacques Rousseau, but I can't find the quote now so maybe it was another circa 1700-1900 political philosopher who said:

(paraphrasing)

"If a man sets upon me to rob me of but my horse and coat, how do I know, when he has me under his complete control, that he will not deprive me of every liberty, including my right to life?"

On the surface (or prima facie, as the learned Scrivener might say) it is an argument for defending oneself in all cases as if one's life depended on it.

But I can't find the quote now, or recall the context, so I'll just have to say that one should be judicious in the use of deadly force. In ordinary circumstances, theft of property and acts of malicious mischief don't rise to the level that justifies deadly force. And it just makes life hard for those who keep a gun for personal defense.
 
EddieCoyle said:
I can say this: I would never under any circumstances shoot somebody for taking a campaign sign from my lawn. In five days, they'd be doing me a favor by getting rid of trash.

You people that would shoot somebody for taking a campaign sign are doing far more harm to gun legal owners than a dozen accidents. Seriously, how many lawful gun owners shooting sign stealers would it take before they'd make it even more difficult for us? If one bitter a**h*** killed "a prankster" in your town, what's going to happen the next time you go to renew?

Christ, you stick a gun in some people's hand and they lose all sense of perspective.
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I'll throw kitchen knifes...let us see them ban them! never said I'd shoot them (I don't think), but I'd confront them armed.
 
I would shoot if I felt life was being threatened. To shoot to protect "stuff" is a far reach - unless in the process of of destroying stuff meant (to me) a potential threat to life.

There is just nothing worth my loss of freedom (prison) for shooting or killing someone just because they take something from me.

EddieCoyle said:
It's marked RESERVED, he knows it's my space, and he parks in it anyway. Would you shoot him?

ETA: Why does it matter what it costs? It's mine. You've already said that you'd shoot a kid for stealing a sign that you got for free, or shoot a little girl for "picking your flowers".

My point (and final words on the subject) is that there are varying degrees of crime, and there are appropriate forms of punishment for each. Killing someone for stealing a free sign because you think that if you "give them an inch they'll take a mile" is morally wrong. In doing so, you do a huge disservice to your fellow law abiding gun owners by giving those that are against us an invaluable weapon to use in their cause.

If you really can't make the distinction, then perhaps you shouldn't own guns.
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Yelena said:
This is irrespinsible. Animals can get electrocuted [angry]
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To review...

It's OK to shoot little girls picking your flowers, but hooking a campaign sign to an animal fence (one designed to stun but not electrocute animals) is wrong because animals might get hurt?

Welcome to Bizarro World ladies and gentlemen!
 
CHAPEL HILL - After Shawn Turschak saw two sets of McCain-Palin signs disappear from his yard within hours of being planted, he took steps to protect the latest pair.
On Monday, he ran wires from his house and hooked the signs into a power source for an electric pet fence. Then he mounted a surveillance camera in a nearby tree and wired it to a digital recorder.

Tuesday afternoon, the camera saw this: A neighbor trotting up with an Obama-Biden sign, grabbing a handful of volts as he touched a McCain-Palin sign, then fleeing at top 9-year-old boy speed.

A few minutes later, the boy's father, Andrew Noble, was at Turschak's door, demanding an explanation from Turschak's 13-year-old daughter, who called her parents on the phone to say a man was yelling at her. Both families agree on one aspect of the exchange, that Noble chastised her for "electrocuting" his son, then left.

The Turschaks hurried home and received another visitor: an Orange County sheriff's deputy.

Campaign signs are vandalized or stolen so often that many people don't report it, and, when they do, law officers often don't investigate.

This time was different.

The corner of the Turschak's yard where the signs are posted is a prominent point in the Oak Crest subdivision just south of Chapel Hill, so the homeowners association maintains it.

It's far enough from the Turschaks' home that it's not obviously part of their yard, and the boy's mother, Johanna Gisladottir, said she and many neighbors thought it was community property. They were troubled, she said, that someone had apparently claimed the corner on behalf of the Republican Party.

Her son, whom she declined to name, took the Obama sign to the corner on his own, she said, after being inspired by a discussion she had with a neighbor about adding one to the mix.

"I don't know what his intention was when he ran out, or I would not have allowed him to leave," Gisladottir said. "I honestly don't think he had a concrete plan."

Noble told an investigator that the boy had been trying to pull up the McCain sign so that he could see how it was constructed, a spokesman for the Sheriff's Department said Wednesday.

The video, Turschak said, makes clear that the boy was planning to switch the signs, which are essentially sheathes that slip over metal framework. The boy had only brought the Democratic sheath, not the legs.

Not all the thefts, Turschak said, could have been caused by a misunderstanding about the land. One sign had been beside his driveway, and a next-door neighbor lost a McCain sign, too.

Turschak, who has a degree in electrical engineering, said he tested the shock on himself while wiring the signs, and did so again while a reporter watched Wednesday, touching both signs repeatedly without flinching. Under each was a yellow sign warning that they were electrified.

Turschak , it turns out, isn't a member of Orange County's perennially embattled Republicans, who are outnumbered nearly 3 to 1 by Democrats. He's registered as an unaffiliated voter and said he doesn't agree fully with either party.

"This isn't about politics," he said. "This is about my right to protect my property and my ability to display my beliefs."

Capt. James Nida of the Sheriff's Department talked to both families Wednesday. Nida, who as a child experienced the charms of electric fences, didn't feel the need to test Turschak's signs.

"Been there, done that," he said.

Sheriff Lindy Pendergrass said he doesn't plan to file charges. The deputy who investigated Tuesday said the pet-fence setup probably was legal, Turschak said, but perhaps more trouble than it was worth. Turschak said Wednesday morning that he would pull the plug on the signs. The camera, though, stayed.

And Wednesday afternoon while the Turschaks were at a daughter's soccer game, it captured an angry-looking woman striding up.

"We got home and both signs were gone," he said. "Broad daylight."

[email protected] or 919-829-4526
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He should wire them up again. [thinking]
 
While I don't advocate gunplay, the lack of respect for private property displayed by people more then old enough to know better is astounding.

I recall growing up a neighborhood kid getting a butt full of rocksalt for being where he shouldn't have been. No one messed with that guy's house ever again, of course he'd go to jail now...
 
EddieCoyle said:
To review...

It's OK to shoot little girls picking your flowers, but hooking a campaign sign to an animal fence (one designed to stun but not electrocute animals) is wrong because animals might get hurt?

Welcome to Bizarro World ladies and gentlemen!
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I know a lot about these fences (our farm is completely wired with them), and EC is right the animals run off crying after being shocked. But as soon as they shock themselves a few dozen times they dont touch the fence anymore. The fence also causes no permanent damage to the animals, we have about 80 goats that use electric fencing daily and no goat ever got permanently hurt.

And yes I have shocked myself on the fencing a lot.
 
dwarven1 said:
He should wire them up again. [thinking]
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Roger that.

For those who don't already know, Chapel Hill is the Cambridge of North Carolina; home to UNC, one leg of the "Golden Triangle" and full of pompous, self-righteous liberals such as those in the above article.
 
Bob P said:
I recall growing up a neighborhood kid getting a butt full of rocksalt for being where he shouldn't have been. No one messed with that guy's house ever again, of course he'd go to jail now...
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Hmm... an advantage to growing up in the suburbs; no one had a shotgun.

Of course, everyone all knew everyone's parents... so after you got your butt smacked by the victim (if he caught you), you got it from your parents when you got home. It worked.
 
Sad to say this was the City of Worcester around 1972 off Burncoat St. Can you imagine that happening now?
 
I have to say, I would agree with Ripach and EC, and yes even Scriv, shooting somebody over private property without any endangerment of human life, is just morally wrong.... I also agree with given people who invade your home, steel your belongings and disrespect you and your family, deserve one hell of a beating
 
drew said:
I have to say, I would agree with Ripach and EC, and yes even Scriv, shooting somebody over private property without any endangerment of human life, is just morally wrong.... I also agree with given people who invade your home, steel your belongings and disrespect you and your family, deserve one hell of a beating
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Thefts are sub-humans.
If you are strong enough to beat them - go ahead. I can't physically confront an average male.
 
Thats the whole "Not my child" way of thinking statement that Noble stated....
Heard it hundreds of times...
 

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