I agree. Massive time waste to go shopping. We tried PeaPod for a bit but too expensive, IMO and the substitutions sucked. If Amazon can make it so you get what you really want or at least know what you are getting for sure during the order placement, that would make a difference. Don't go to WF, so not commenting on their prices...
-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
AMZN buying WFM
- Thread starter Greschner 4
- Start date
I agree. Massive time waste to go shopping. We tried PeaPod for a bit but too expensive, IMO and the substitutions sucked. If Amazon can make it so you get what you really want or at least know what you are getting for sure during the order placement, that would make a difference. Don't go to WF, so not commenting on their prices...
Individualist
NES Member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2009
- Messages
- 4,663
- Likes
- 4,366
If Amazon succeeds there will be less local markets around. You will have travel further to get what you need immediately and may not have the variety you have today.
All they need to do is take away 25% of a store's business and there go the profits. Wilth all the cash they have they can undercut and run at a loss on this for quite some time until they achieve their goal and wipe out a percent of the local markets. Then they will raise prices and decrease quality to the point where it is tolerable but not so bad as having to to drive 1/2 hour to a grocery store.
On the other had we may see a resergence in butchers, produce stands, small specialty sellers and the weekly farmer's markets. That would be nice for quality sake but not so much for immediate convenience.
Last edited:
I think Amazon has become too big and should be broken up under anti-trust laws. They're the worlds largest retailer - more than doubling next closest competitor Wally World. But that's not all. They're also the worlds largest cloud services provider. In fact when AWS S3 in the Virginia availability zone went down for a day last month it took 25% of the net down with it! Now they're using the revenue from their retail and cloud operations to buy into other business and muscle out brick and mortar mom and pop shops. They can use the revenue from these other business lines to undercut competition. Then when the closed signs start swinging on the doors of the competition - prices get jacked.
This company has become so big and entwined in so much - it's become a danger to society. The justice dept dragged Microsoft through the process in the 90's for far less (a web browser). The type of behavior that Amazon is now engaging in is exactly what anti-trust laws were designed to prevent.
I have no problem with Amazon as a retailer. But when they use the revenue from one line of business to sell at a loss and bankrupt/close competition in another line of business - where the competition enjoys no such alternate revenue advantage - that's an anti-trust problem..
This deal should not be allowed to proceed. Not only that - Amazon retail should be broken off from Amazon Cloud Services (AWS) and they should be made into separate companies. Else we'll all pay the price in a few years. By then it will be much more difficult to undo the harm because competition will have been snuffed out.
This company has become so big and entwined in so much - it's become a danger to society. The justice dept dragged Microsoft through the process in the 90's for far less (a web browser). The type of behavior that Amazon is now engaging in is exactly what anti-trust laws were designed to prevent.
I have no problem with Amazon as a retailer. But when they use the revenue from one line of business to sell at a loss and bankrupt/close competition in another line of business - where the competition enjoys no such alternate revenue advantage - that's an anti-trust problem..
This deal should not be allowed to proceed. Not only that - Amazon retail should be broken off from Amazon Cloud Services (AWS) and they should be made into separate companies. Else we'll all pay the price in a few years. By then it will be much more difficult to undo the harm because competition will have been snuffed out.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
- Messages
- 47,530
- Likes
- 33,561
You mean like how WalMart has raised prices after driving local small businesses to ruin?
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2007
- Messages
- 11,135
- Likes
- 1,600
sub par food? Bull ****ing shit. If you want to inspect every ****ing package of tenderloin to find the best one i the freezer, then get into the ****ing store and do it yourself! Convenience comes at a cost. The food may be "sub-par" to your standards, but it isn't to the standard of what is put into the freezer. You want higher standard than their minimum? Then get the **** in there and find it, because youre not going to get it by sitting on your laptop ordering groceries.
Anyone who thought that they were going to have grocery pickers pick fruits, vegetables and meats out to their own personal standards is ****ing delusional. If that applies to you, or anyone else, then sorry, but thats the truth.
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2007
- Messages
- 11,135
- Likes
- 1,600
That isn't Amazon's fault. Also, out of curiosity, how does that fall under violating anti-trust law?
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
- Messages
- 47,530
- Likes
- 33,561
Anti-trust is anti-competitive behavior, like buying your competition or colluding with competitors to set prices.
But, fortunately for Bezos, a felony anti-trust conviction does not make one a prohibited person.
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2007
- Messages
- 11,135
- Likes
- 1,600
and how does having the money to undercut the competition apply in this. Per ThePreBanMan, its anti-trust to use money from one business line to prop up your other business line.
I don't care about how it impacts him as to prohibitions on firearms, that question was never asked.
mibro
NES Member
To turn that around, you're not going to succeed with a grocery delivery service if you can't figure out how to deliver meat and produce that meet your customers' expectations.
The economics of grocery delivery just don't work very well. It's a lot of added cost for a low margin business.
Individualist
NES Member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2009
- Messages
- 4,663
- Likes
- 4,366
You mean like how WalMart has raised prices after driving local small businesses to ruin?
Yes, very much like that.
Also another example is like how Charbucks put all of the terrific independent coffee retailers out of business back in the 90's. Besides the jewelry biz I also had a business interest in the coffee roasting industry back then. Luckily I saw what was happening and got out in time.
Charbucks had so much investment money behind them they just steamrolled right over the independents. We literally watched them create a visible path of death and destruction heading west to east. Their strategy was to buy out the most significant local threats, like they did with Coffee Connection to the tune of about $50 million. Then they would set up stores literally right next store to all other existing coffee shops and steal 25% of their business - the profits. Because Charbucks didn't need to turn an immediate profit on a particular location they could operate at a loss for a few years. They would essentially convince the landlords in town to raise rents by offering to pay higher initial rates and longer term contracts, steal away good workers with big company incentives, etc. until the mom and pop store was no longer able to make a living and had to close up shop. Then a few years later they're the only game in town for specialty coffee and begin charging rape prices for a cup of burnt coffee.
Fair competition? Not really. Even Coffee Connection who was the biggest player in the area would never set up right next store to a mom and pop. There knew there was room for everyone and just tried to be the best they could be. Charbucks was out to destroy all competition any way possible and was ruthless. Anti trust...? Maybe, maybe not but I bet you could make the case. The problem is how do you fight a mega company with an in house legal team and endless funds who can delay things until you are broke?
Local supermarkets should be shitting bricks right about now if they have any sense.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2007
- Messages
- 11,135
- Likes
- 1,600
Customer expectations vary from person to person, especially when picking produce, eat, etc. so they set a bar, and if your expectation is well above that bar, then perhaps you should drag yourself to the store and pick your produce and such yourself.
Obviously Amazon has been pushing into the grocery market and is starting into the perishable grocery categories. This acquisition will (as stated before) bring more credibility towards Amazons perishable food push and will also help Whole Foods streamline their warehouse and distribution. I believe that Whole Foods profits will increase as a result of increased buying power since they are now owned by Amazon and will be able to have a lower cost than before on products. Hopefully this won't encourage Whole Foods to carry lower quality goods (I don't believe it will, but you never know)
As far as online grocery shopping (and delivery) it believe it would be feasible to offer different levels of quality when it comes to selection (i.e . first choice meats/produce or second level at a slightly lower price point). I'm sure those of you that use peapod can understand that the people picking your groceries could pick sub par quality for more than 1 reason. Maybe they just don't care, maybe they were told to pick the day old produce or maybe they thought that you were too f'ing lazy to come to the store to pick out your food yourself (so you get what you get)
Looking at the employee perspective Whole Foods has been known to pay above market average for wages and hopefully this won't change (though payroll is the biggest controllable expense)
This will have a great impact on grocery stores and the supermarket industry some will be positive and some remain to be seen.
This is my .02 (with 13 years in supermarket employment and no its not with Stop and Shop
Being lazy? Lol... when you work 60 hours a week grocery shopping costs you money to step into the store, because your free time starts to get more valuable... at least it does in my case.
- - - Updated - - -
It doesn't take rocket appliances to grade all these things and offer the customer a choice.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2016
- Messages
- 155
- Likes
- 9
This may sound completely insane but you could always spare an hour to run to the grocery store.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2016
- Messages
- 155
- Likes
- 9
I wouldnt call it laziness but a ton of people i see using this service are stay at home moms, atleast in the area i work. There is a thin line between lazy and convience. I do not have the luxury of convience so it is hard to see what is so difficult about buying groceries (and i work 50+ hours a week).
I like to inspect most items i buy, especially expiration dates. I have who never check expiration dates on milk and when you look at the backrow, you have find some atleast 2-3 days fresher.
People also need to understand that amazon is not going to ship fresh lettuce or apples when they have a boxes of 2 day old stuff sitting in their warehouse...just not going to happen.
fshalor
NES Member
While living in MA, a 2 hr drive to a whole foods was sometimes my only option. In Maine, hannaford actually does fairly well, and I haven't been in the local whole foods. Which is 30 seconds away from my work parking lot, in over a year.
Amazon grabbing them may actually help in my families niche
Sent from my LG-K371 using Tapatalk
Amazon grabbing them may actually help in my families niche
Sent from my LG-K371 using Tapatalk
Back in the 90's Bradlee's and Caldor buyers were told to not compete directly with Walmart. Their cost of distribution was in in the low 30%, Walmart 2.5-3%. They and others are gone. Walmart distribution costs are still in the low single digits, but have not put Shaws, Stop and Shop, etc.. out to biz. Even with the AMZN logistics, don't see how the WF value proposition appeals to Joe 6-pack. If you are not motivated to buy presumably "better" quality food (and pay a premium), why would you shop there after AMZN acquisition? For those that already shop there, think the acquisition is a Win-Win for them. My hope is that WF is willing to use OPM to subsidize their costs to the benefit of their customers. Time will tell.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2012
- Messages
- 4,129
- Likes
- 1,789
Do you make your own lunch/dinner for work? "I eat my food on the clock and I buy it on the clock."
Have you ever read an anti-trust law or cases where they've been applied? Just curious. You may want to... That research will provide you the understanding you seek.
All I'm saying is that if MS can get dragged through the mud simply because they included a browser (Internet Explorer) with Windows (for free) - what Amazon is doing is far worse then that standard of comparison. Or let's take the Telco break-up of the 80's. Remember Ma-Bell? The justice dept. broke that company up into 8 different companies! Not only that - they then required that AT&T sell time on it's lines to it's competitors at cost to help revive the competition they had snuffed out. That's how MCI and Sprint were born.
I'm not trying to be an ass hole - but your posts are somewhat confrontational in nature. I would suggest you open a book before making such strongly worded posts. Especially when you're not up to speed on the subject matter.
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2007
- Messages
- 11,135
- Likes
- 1,600
No, My original reply was a question looking for understanding. My response to Boudrie, yeah, I'll give you that one, but I never asked about firearms prohibitions in regards to anti-trust, so it was wholly irrelevant.
I understand antitrust, my point was that Amazon using money from one business line to support another, with no other information, does not appear in and of itself to be an antitrust move. It's merely keeping a line alive. Now, what they are doing buy making tons of acquisitions, yes, that's the antitrust part. I was making a distinction between those two things, that while subtle, are somewhat different.
Got ya,...
xtry51
NES Member
Anti-trust is ridiculous to begin with.
Consumer demand will control price, regardless of efforts to do the opposite in an unregulated market.
Every single time the government has prosecuted someone under this guise, prices of those products have RISEN. Anti-trust was created to allow politicians and lawyers the ability to destroy people they didn't like and give market share to people they did.
Go back and look at Standard Oil and what energy prices were before and after. Look at the Bell breakup.
Larger companies will always provide the cheapest services. That is how economies of scale work.
The only monopolies that exist today, do so because of laws protecting them. Not because "the market allows it". Healthcare, Education, electricity, etc...
Consumer demand will control price, regardless of efforts to do the opposite in an unregulated market.
Every single time the government has prosecuted someone under this guise, prices of those products have RISEN. Anti-trust was created to allow politicians and lawyers the ability to destroy people they didn't like and give market share to people they did.
Go back and look at Standard Oil and what energy prices were before and after. Look at the Bell breakup.
Larger companies will always provide the cheapest services. That is how economies of scale work.
The only monopolies that exist today, do so because of laws protecting them. Not because "the market allows it". Healthcare, Education, electricity, etc...
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2016
- Messages
- 3,744
- Likes
- 10,170
It may not be new but I recently noticed the Amazon Locker option when making a purchase. They offer to deliver and store your purchase at several points near your location and you can pick it up at your leisure. I guess they could install refrigerated lockers and potentially deliver some orders that way as opposed to delivering refrigerated goods and leaving them on your doorstep.
***********
so Bezos can rule the world. He will control all our needs from food to commodities and they will ship to you're door by drone in hours.
*****
"Amazon's whopper purchase of Whole Foods for $13.7 billion is far and away the company's biggest acquisition yet. It's also part of a much larger battle: Amazon dominates huge swaths of online retail, with a market value larger than the next 12 biggest traditional retailers combined. But one area where it still lags is groceries. The company is experimenting with a grocery delivery service for Amazon Prime members, and another service that lets grocery shoppers skip the checkout line. But buying Whole Foods would instantaneously and massively expand Amazon's capacities in the grocery business — and bring us that much closer to a world where the groceries come to us, rather than vice versa.
Amazon will also get access to Whole Foods' 430 locations. The grocery chain will keep its brand, its CEO John Mackey, and its Austin, Texas, headquarters. But its profits and operations will be under the umbrella of its new parent.
That will give Amazon a leg-up in its larger war with Walmart over who will become the dominant force in both brick-and-mortar and online retail. "
http://theweek.com/articles/706484/amazon-eats-world
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
- Messages
- 47,530
- Likes
- 33,561
It doesn't always work that way.
Consider a product which is worth $100 to a consumer and costs $20 to produce. In the absence of a trust, various suppliers will compete and the price might settle at $40 or so. If there is a trust, and all suppliers are allowed to meet and agree to a floor price, you might see a price settle in at $100. Of course, trusts can break when one supplier decides to cheat and sell below the floor to gain market share.
In a competitive market, universities might try to top the financial aid (or rather, discount off retail) offered to a student. They avoid having to do this via a trust where they coordinate aid offers and agree not to outbid other schools, thus keeping the aid amount lower.
Without strong arming involved, what prevents an upstart from breaking the trust naturally?
The big factor that keeps universities chugging along is federally guaranteed loans. People aren't price sensitive enough to college costs because 1. They are young and dumb. 2. They are given bad info. And 3 even though 1 & 2 are true they are given loans that the market would never give them.
Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
- Messages
- 47,530
- Likes
- 33,561
Depends on the barriers to entry, and the willingness of the existing trust to endure short term losses to crush the upstart.
Look at liquor stores - protected govt oligolopy (you cannot open a new store if the town is at its license limit). No upstart is going to rock the boat
Liquor licenses are .gov strong arming. I think trusts aren't a problem if 1. Government doesn't strong arm. 2. Government prevents private violence
Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
