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Always ask for a warrant before letting the police in

rogersmithiii said:
Perhaps one good idea is to keep “shit” that can get you into trouble out of sight.
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We installed steel interior doors with deadbolt locks in the bedrooms. They can be locked from inside the room by turning a knob or from outside with a key. All three locks use the same key. Gun safe is in a guest bedroom closet. Medical emergency? We can lock all three in about 30 seconds or so. We are planning to do that with all closets as well. Yes, you have to let them in, but you can strictly control interior access. That is what I saw at the police station, bank and pharmacy.
 
chris_1001 said:
Honestly why even respond to a knock on the door?

Do I have to even say anything? I’ll just ignore them.

If they have a warrant, no matter what I say, they are coming in.
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Sitting and staring out of a hotel window
Got a tip they're gonna kick the door in again
I'd like to get some sleep before I travel
but if you got a warrant I guess you're gonna come in

Busted - down on Bourbon Street
Set up - like a bowling pin
Knocked down - it gets to wearing thin
They just won't let you be
 
Gidge said:
Sitting and staring out of a hotel window
Got a tip they're gonna kick the door in again
I'd like to get some sleep before I travel
but if you got a warrant I guess you're gonna come in

Busted - down on Bourbon Street
Set up - like a bowling pin
Knocked down - it gets to wearing thin
They just won't let you be
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Classic Dead. I was always a big fan. RIP, Jerry!
 
My house has entry through the garage. Our deck overlooks the driveway, so often when anyone comes to the house I go out on the deck and talk down to them. Gives me a tactical advantage. I can pee on them.

Having been on the other side of that badge, once my chief and I got called to a house by the parents. 15 year old kid was raging, hadn't been taking his meds, parents didn't know what to do, so we were going to take him to the hospital by force. He calmed down as soon as we showed up, the hurt on his face at his parents calling the cops was heart breaking. Anyway, kid asked if he could pack a bag and chief told me to go with him to his room. As I passed the chief, he whispered to me "Get a good look around, see if there's anything we can get him on to hold him". I think that was the day I first started thinking the job wasn't for me.
 
hillman said:
My house has entry through the garage. Our deck overlooks the driveway, so often when anyone comes to the house I go out on the deck and talk down to them. Gives me a tactical advantage. I can pee on them.

Having been on the other side of that badge, once my chief and I got called to a house by the parents. 15 year old kid was raging, hadn't been taking his meds, parents didn't know what to do, so we were going to take him to the hospital by force. He calmed down as soon as we showed up, the hurt on his face at his parents calling the cops was heart breaking. Anyway, kid asked if he could pack a bag and chief told me to go with him to his room. As I passed the chief, he whispered to me "Get a good look around, see if there's anything we can get him on to hold him". I think that was the day I first started thinking the job wasn't for me.
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"Hold him" or hold the parents? Or hold both? At 15, kid was a minor. If illegal drugs or weapons were found, kid goes to juvenile court. Parents would face charges as well, since they are responsible for disciplining him and protecting his welfare. Then CPS gets copies of the arrest reports, kid ends up in foster care...family damaged forever. Your chief was a real prick! Sadly, there are many others like him in law enforcement.
 
Parker Schreiber said:
Serious Answer: Yes. Most if not all states consider a medical "emergency aid" to be exigent circumstances, and the police are allowed to enter and make a protective sweep.
Typically there's a two-fold test. First, at the time of entry, there must be an objectively reasonable basis for the officers to believe that an emergency exists. Second, after the entry, the conduct of the officers must be reasonable under the circumstances; in other words, the search must not exceed the scope of the emergency.

This Monday, an ambulance was dispatched to my house due to a medical emergency with my wife. A police officer came in with the paramedics. Since my wife was in the family room, they could have searched for weapons in that room or the kitchen, but not, say, the office where I'm writing this now. Nor could have they opened any sealed containers.
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What do potential weapons have to do with the medical emergency if no weapons were part of the initial services requested?
In other words I have chest pains not a GSW or stabbed and called 911. What does my loaded 45 in the drawer have to do with anything?
 
hillman said:
As I passed the chief, he whispered to me "Get a good look around, see if there's anything we can get him on to hold him". I think that was the day I first started thinking the job wasn't for me.
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That's my biggest problem with modern LE. Their #1 priority is to arrest you and throw you in jail by any means possible. Even if they have to lie, in the name of "public service", etc. They're not in it to "better the community". Everyone that's not a cop is the enemy.
 
Asaltweapon said:
What do potential weapons have to do with the medical emergency if no weapons were part of the initial services requested?
In other words I have chest pains not a GSW or stabbed and called 911. What does my loaded 45 in the drawer have to do with anything?
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A loaded .45 in a drawer, or under a couch cushion, would be outside the scope of the emergency. The sweep is limited to ensuring the responders safety.
 
We have a standing policy that certain doors are to be locked in case of a medical emergency .
Only takes a couple of seconds .
Sucks that you even have to think of such things , but it is what it is.
Also certain shades remain closed after I read about the incident where a tax assessor was snooping around some old guy's house peeking in the windows and reported him for improper storage.
 
A friend's brother died alone at home. The younger brother found him and called the ambulance/police. The police told him, since he died alone, they needed to "sweep the house" to verify no foul play/murder took place. Essentially look for broken windows, signs of struggle, etc. Good chance for them to spot improper storage, gun mags, etc.
 
SKumar said:
That's my biggest problem with modern LE. Their #1 priority is to arrest you and throw you in jail by any means possible. Even if they have to lie, in the name of "public service", etc. They're not in it to "better the community". Everyone that's not a cop is the enemy.
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This.

Fortunately, it isn’t all LE. There are still some good ones out there.
Unfortunately, you never know what you will get.

Bob
 
M1911 said:
They can and they will.

I called the fire dept non-emergency number once. As I was getting in my car, a passing motorist said she thought she saw flames coming out my chimney. I checked the basement and attic and didn’t see, hear, or smell anything. I called the fire department and told them what the motorist said and asked them if they weren’t busy if they could send someone by. Of course, I was being a dolt — the fire department has two speeds: 1) everyone comes or no one comes. Within 5 minutes there was a ladder truck, a pumper truck, the fire chief, and a police car at my house. While I showed one of the firefighters into the basement and attic, a cop came in the front door and waited there while we checked for fire. None was found and they all left.

A few years ago we were at a friends house when their elderly father became unresponsive. The first on the scene was a plainclothes cop.
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I called the FD when I lived in the Brighton section of Boston and saw flames in the school window across the street. Everyone came.

Turned out to be the reflection of a resident on a upper floor of the apartment building I lived in cooking on a grill. No porch or balcony, had to be a windowsill job.
 
Matt_SERE said:
If I answered the door, the conversation would take place through the locked screen door.

How many remember the Camb Harv Professor and the Cambridge Police "who acted stupidly" according to Obama? If the police think you are creating a scene and you are in your house, oh well. If you step on to the porch to argue with them, you are now disturbing the peace in public. Clickety clack. Hear those bracelets? No, thanks.

I don't care if it is a screen between us. If they have to cut it to unlock the door is shows intent.

Matt
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Not "intent"; "lack of consent". Very important to document any "lack of consent" entries or searches that happen.
 
I have not answered my door in probably 10 years. Anyone that's welcome in my house has a key and knows they can just come in.....or walk around back to the backyard.

If my doorbell rings I never answer it. I have a window in my living room (raised ranch) that overlooks the front door. If it's a solicitor or the damn jovah porch joggers ringing the bell they get nothing but dogs barking. If they ring a second time the window opens and injust say "not interested in anything please leave".
 
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Mountain said:
Serious question:

If there is a medical emergency in your home, we all know who usually arrives first or at least along with EMT's / Paramedics. Under this circumstance, may cops simply enter your home w/o explicit permission?

Not sure how/why the police entered his home during the incident, but a friend was tripped up horribly over "improper storage". Someone else in his home was having the medical emergency. Both he and his wife were well known and upstanding members of the community. West Point grad, multiple deployments to the Gulf, high level job in the private sector, etc. No matter, what would be a non issue a few miles to the north cost him big money in court.

Under such circumstances does it become necessary to post an adult at the front door to say, "Mr. police man, you must wait outside."?
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Friend of mine had a medical emergency for his wife who was in the living room. Cops showed up and crossed through the living room and went straight to the kitchen. Maybe he would have explained it as "officer safety", but that has a lot of leeway to be abused especially for a medical emergency.
Nick Fury said:
I step outside and lock the door behind me. I’ve done that twice now. It works well. No warrant situation although I’d still do the same.
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Good on you for standing for your rights, most people crumple like paper. I have always been told to not let them in and talk from an open window.

This makes it harder for them to get their hands on you and give you a ride to the station where you can spend money and time to prove your innocence based on their attitude or mistake.
.
 
Nick Fury said:
I step outside and lock the door behind me. I’ve done that twice now. It works well. No warrant situation although I’d still do the same.
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A better move would be to keep your storm door locked and talk through that. You actually have less rights on your porch than you do one step back inside your home 4th amendment wise.

For instance, police (and anyone else not under a trespass notice) can legally walk up and knock on your door. If you step out, they can now justify cuffing you “for their safety” and giving you a terry frisk.

No, not completely randomly, but if they suspect you of something, they can do it.

If you open the door to step out, you may find s foot in the door and now you can’t close it. Again, “for their safety”
 
Devils Paintbrush said:
Friend of mine had a medical emergency for his wife who was in the living room. Cops showed up and crossed through the living room and went straight to the kitchen. Maybe he would have explained it as "officer safety", but that has a lot of leeway to be abused especially for a medical emergency.

Good on you for standing for your rights, most people crumple like paper. I have always been told to not let them in and talk from an open window.

This makes it harder for them to get their hands on you and give you a ride to the station where you can spend money and time to prove your innocence based on their attitude or mistake.
.
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Without knowing their ages or medical history or anything like that. Just wanted to point out that elderly people keep their file of life on their refrigerator. Good spot for MOLST (DNR). We also see a lot of self neglect so it's not our of the question to take a peak at the kitchen to see if they are even eating. So again not sure if relevant to your friends situation, just wanted to shed light on an example of why first responders could be looking around a little.
 

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