• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

Always ask for a warrant before letting the police in

Problem is, so many people have the mind set of "If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't worry!" and just let them on in, or let them search their vehicle. I had a visit once from one of the federal agencies. I went out my front door and chatted with him. Several times he mentioned that it would probably be more comfortable talking inside. I had nothing to hide, but I just kept telling him I'd rather stay outside and talk.
 
Serious question:

If there is a medical emergency in your home, we all know who usually arrives first or at least along with EMT's / Paramedics. Under this circumstance, may cops simply enter your home w/o explicit permission?

Not sure how/why the police entered his home during the incident, but a friend was tripped up horribly over "improper storage". Someone else in his home was having the medical emergency. Both he and his wife were well known and upstanding members of the community. West Point grad, multiple deployments to the Gulf, high level job in the private sector, etc. No matter, what would be a non issue a few miles to the north cost him big money in court.

Under such circumstances does it become necessary to post an adult at the front door to say, "Mr. police man, you must wait outside."?
 
garandman said:
We answer the door from a second floor window behind the front door.

Totally unhinges anyone there for the wrong reason.
Click to expand...
^^^This. You actually can't get to the front door of the house since the front yard is fenced in. Same with the back door. The only door a visitor can approach is the side door, where the detached garage is. There's a window right over that door. If the Ring shows us an unknown at the door, we always just answer it from the window. Where we live it's often ATV'ers that have broken down and need to call someone to come and get them (there's no cell coverage out here). We always just offer to make the call for them.
 
Nick Fury said:
I step outside and lock the door behind me. I’ve done that twice now. It works well. No warrant situation although I’d still do the same.
Click to expand...
When I went into the police station to renew my LTC, I got as far as the lobby. All locked interior doors and camera surveillance. The woman who took my application and payment told me to slide it through a bottom slot of a heavily reinforced and tinted bunker style window that could probably have stopped a 20mm cannon round. Records department across the lobby, same thing. Us taxpayers paid for all of it. If they treat us lowly "civilians" that way, I am all for returning the favor. Refuse entry without a warrant and lock them out!
 
Mountain said:
Serious question:

If there is a medical emergency in your home, we all know who usually arrives first or at least along with EMT's / Paramedics. Under this circumstance, may cops simply enter your home w/o explicit permission?
Click to expand...
They can and they will.

I called the fire dept non-emergency number once. As I was getting in my car, a passing motorist said she thought she saw flames coming out my chimney. I checked the basement and attic and didn’t see, hear, or smell anything. I called the fire department and told them what the motorist said and asked them if they weren’t busy if they could send someone by. Of course, I was being a dolt — the fire department has two speeds: 1) everyone comes or no one comes. Within 5 minutes there was a ladder truck, a pumper truck, the fire chief, and a police car at my house. While I showed one of the firefighters into the basement and attic, a cop came in the front door and waited there while we checked for fire. None was found and they all left.

A few years ago we were at a friends house when their elderly father became unresponsive. The first on the scene was a plainclothes cop.
 
Last edited:
Mountain said:
Under such circumstances does it become necessary to post an adult at the front door to say, "Mr. police man, you must wait outside."?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure of the specific legalese of that but when people call for help it's a de facto invite into the premises and theres not a whole lot you can do until the people responding determine they are done or not needed. Theres some valid reasons for that being a thing also. It didnt happen on it's own.
 
Mountain said:
Serious question:

If there is a medical emergency in your home, we all know who usually arrives first or at least along with EMT's / Paramedics. Under this circumstance, may cops simply enter your home w/o explicit permission?

Not sure how/why the police entered his home during the incident, but a friend was tripped up horribly over "improper storage". Someone else in his home was having the medical emergency. Both he and his wife were well known and upstanding members of the community. West Point grad, multiple deployments to the Gulf, high level job in the private sector, etc. No matter, what would be a non issue a few miles to the north cost him big money in court.

Under such circumstances does it become necessary to post an adult at the front door to say, "Mr. police man, you must wait outside."?
Click to expand...
Well at least where I work the cops are very competent and capable first responders. So if it was dispatched as a true medical emergency they would almost always be the first ones on scene and could do things like: CPR, clearing airway, aed, trauma management, etc. so that scenario would go a little different. Most cops don't want to jam people up for things like this. Sounds like those cops were DBs.
But to answer your question I would hope the answer is no. You should not be able to block a first responder (even if is a cop) from rendering aid to the person that 911 was called for. I guess if this happens, drag your friend outside?
 
Mountain said:
Serious question:

If there is a medical emergency in your home, we all know who usually arrives first or at least along with EMT's / Paramedics. Under this circumstance, may cops simply enter your home w/o explicit permission?

Not sure how/why the police entered his home during the incident, but a friend was tripped up horribly over "improper storage". Someone else in his home was having the medical emergency. Both he and his wife were well known and upstanding members of the community. West Point grad, multiple deployments to the Gulf, high level job in the private sector, etc. No matter, what would be a non issue a few miles to the north cost him big money in court.

Under such circumstances does it become necessary to post an adult at the front door to say, "Mr. police man, you must wait outside."?
Click to expand...
They also have a "hot pursuit" exclusion
What is considered "hot pursuit" was a debate

I have a family member that is part of case law in MA on entering a house without a warrant in pursuit and when its considered over

The basic case was police looking for someone, they implied they had to look around, they found something
Owner of house was a family member that was not the person they were looking for and they were not arrested
The person they were looking for did years and got off on appeal. The case was overturned and gets referenced in other cases, so that case forever follows them 🤣 150+ cases cite it
 
Last edited:
Mountain said:
Serious question:

If there is a medical emergency in your home, we all know who usually arrives first or at least along with EMT's / Paramedics. Under this circumstance, may cops simply enter your home w/o explicit permission?

Not sure how/why the police entered his home during the incident, but a friend was tripped up horribly over "improper storage". Someone else in his home was having the medical emergency. Both he and his wife were well known and upstanding members of the community. West Point grad, multiple deployments to the Gulf, high level job in the private sector, etc. No matter, what would be a non issue a few miles to the north cost him big money in court.

Under such circumstances does it become necessary to post an adult at the front door to say, "Mr. police man, you must wait outside."?
Click to expand...
Serious Answer: Yes. Most if not all states consider a medical "emergency aid" to be exigent circumstances, and the police are allowed to enter and make a protective sweep.
Typically there's a two-fold test. First, at the time of entry, there must be an objectively reasonable basis for the officers to believe that an emergency exists. Second, after the entry, the conduct of the officers must be reasonable under the circumstances; in other words, the search must not exceed the scope of the emergency.

This Monday, an ambulance was dispatched to my house due to a medical emergency with my wife. A police officer came in with the paramedics. Since my wife was in the family room, they could have searched for weapons in that room or the kitchen, but not, say, the office where I'm writing this now. Nor could have they opened any sealed containers.
 
Parker Schreiber said:
Serious Answer: Yes. Most if not all states consider a medical "emergency aid" to be exigent circumstances, and the police are allowed to enter and make a protective sweep.
Typically there's a two-fold test. First, at the time of entry, there must be an objectively reasonable basis for the officers to believe that an emergency exists. Second, after the entry, the conduct of the officers must be reasonable under the circumstances; in other words, the search must not exceed the scope of the emergency.

This Monday, an ambulance was dispatched to my house due to a medical emergency with my wife. A police officer came in with the paramedics. Since my wife was in the family room, they could have searched for weapons in that room or the kitchen, but not, say, the office where I'm writing this now. Nor could have they opened any sealed containers.
Click to expand...

In the scenario you provided (call requesting medical assistance) , the police absolutely cannot “search for weapons”. They can, and will, enter your house but they cannot conduct a search.

If the police see contraband or evidence of a crime in plain view while in your house, that is a different story. They can seize the item or they can “freeze” the house (remove all persons from inside the house and prevent anyone from entering) and apply for a search warrant. If the warrant is issued, then they will conduct a search. Seeing something in plain view, though, is not a search.

For plain view to be valid, the police need to be “lawfully present” in that area when they observed the contraband/evidence of a crime. Being present in your home following a call for medical assistance is almost always considered being “lawfully present” for plain view.
 
WJ406 said:
In the scenario you provided (call requesting medical assistance) , the police absolutely cannot “search for weapons”. They can, and will, enter your house but they cannot conduct a search.

If the police see contraband or evidence of a crime in plain view while in your house, that is a different story. They can seize the item or they can “freeze” the house (remove all persons from inside the house and prevent anyone from entering) and apply for a search warrant. If the warrant is issued, then they will conduct a search. Seeing something in plain view, though, is not a search.

For plain view to be valid, the police need to be “lawfully present” in that area when they observed the contraband/evidence of a crime. Being present in your home following a call for medical assistance is almost always considered being “lawfully present” for plain view.
Click to expand...

Cops are never lawfully present in my house. They are lawfully gay though in my driveway
 
EnlistGoy said:
Cops are never lawfully present in my house. They are lawfully gay though in my driveway
Click to expand...

All it takes is a neighbor calling 911 while you’re not home saying that she saw smoke coming from your house and five minutes later there’s a cop and fire fighters in your basement. Suddenly the cop sees a firearm out on your workbench that your were tinkering with earlier in the day and now you’re charged with improper storage. I know of several similar scenarios to this that have happened.

Also don’t think this is limited to residences. If you’re driving along and your vehicles becomes disabled, the cops have authority to order it towed if they deem it to be a hazard. When they do that they’ll conduct a motor vehicle inventory (aka warrantless search that has been upheld by SCOTUS) and can charge your for anything they find during it.
 
Last edited:
WJ406 said:
In the scenario you provided (call requesting medical assistance) , the police absolutely cannot “search for weapons”. They can, and will, enter your house but they cannot conduct a search.
Click to expand...
Actually, under the protective sweep doctrine they can do a limited search to ensure that you can't endanger them with a weapon.
 
WJ406 said:
All it takes is a neighbor calling 911 while you’re not home saying that she saw smoke coming from your house and five minutes later there’s a cop and fire fighters in your basement. Suddenly the cop sees a firearm out on your workbench that your were tinkering with earlier in the day and now you’re charged with improper storage. I know of several similar scenarios to this that have happened.
Click to expand...

Nah. My neighbors hate me. They’d let house burn.
 
Parker Schreiber said:
Actually, under the protective sweep doctrine they can do a limited search to ensure that you can't endanger them with a weapon.
Click to expand...
In relation to a criminal investigation they may be able to do that if certain criteria are met. They cannot do a protective sweep on a simple medical call. They might “search” the area for a list of medications, a DNR, or identification to assist with medical treatment. But this would be consistent with their role in addressing the medical incident, not them conducting a criminal investigation.

Just because a police officer is present somewhere doesn’t mean they can start searching for weapons. Even to conduct a pat frisk, an officer need to articulate that someone is armed and dangerous. The presence or suspected presence of a weapon alone isn’t enough to trigger an automatic pat frisk or protective sweep.

Let’s say you call the police to report online identity theft. The officer comes to your house and you speak with him in your living room. He is lawfully present in your house but he cannot start looking under your couch cushions because there might be a weapon there.
 
If I answered the door, the conversation would take place through the locked screen door.

How many remember the Camb Harv Professor and the Cambridge Police "who acted stupidly" according to Obama? If the police think you are creating a scene and you are in your house, oh well. If you step on to the porch to argue with them, you are now disturbing the peace in public. Clickety clack. Hear those bracelets? No, thanks.

I don't care if it is a screen between us. If they have to cut it to unlock the door is shows intent.

Matt
 

Similar threads

SWAT team responding to Arkansas shopping mall, police ask public to avoid the area: Officials called it “an incident that is active"
Replies
5
Views
225
TJ4
T
Police: Hunter Shoots Man in Head After Mistaking Him for a Turkey
2
Replies
31
Views
708
MisterHappy
MisterHappy
Washington school shooting: Students in lockdown at William Wiley Elementary as police rush to the scene
Replies
8
Views
376
CMEBoston
CMEBoston
Police: UPS Worker Shot, Killed in Targeted Attack
Replies
3
Views
195
timbo
timbo
Breaking: Police Arrest Trans Student For Planning Multi-School Shooting
Replies
19
Views
542
Dadstoys
Dadstoys
Back
Top Bottom