AK47's - Who makes the best one and why?

loki32687 said:
I'd love to see your country of origin breakdown.
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you could do a lot describing this- military variants and civilian export variants.

KMS sounds like he might know a thing or two about post-ban Romanian imports. There were quite a few, from thumbhole stock 5.45x39 variants with pressed AK74 brakes on AKM sight blocks, to PSLs, to RPKs. All kinds of shit out of Romania.
 
flintoid said:
you could do a lot describing this- military variants and civilian export variants.

KMS sounds like he might know a thing or two about post-ban Romanian imports. There were quite a few, from thumbhole stock 5.45x39 variants with pressed AK74 brakes on AKM sight blocks, to PSLs, to RPKs. All kinds of shit out of Romania.
Click to expand...

Just a breakdown of what we can get here. So civilian imports. I'm considering getting a parts kit and debating which I want to grab.
 
Flintoid, here's a fun one for you...

What the **** is the deal with the MISR-90? Isn't it a Maadi made out of like, half chinese parts or something? I had one of those things years ago, and it ran okay, but it was a festering piece of crap. The sights were canted, and it had absurd trigger slap, and the BCG felt like you were dragging a non wheeled dumpster over a bed of rocks, that's how much it hung up when cycling it.

That said, it did actually run reliably. I can't fault it for that... but outside of that, it sucked pretty bad.

My biggest mistake ever was selling my Arsenal SAM-7 milled receiver. [crying] Maybe if I hit the lottery someday I'll get another one. That thing was like butter.

-Mike
 
flintoid said:
All kinds of shit out of Romania.
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I don't know if its because my first AK was an SAR1 or there's so much Romanian surplus stuff out there but I like Romi AKs. Everything in this pic from the SAR1, the AES10B, the slings, mags, flag, even can of ammo is all Romanian.

Romanian.jpg
 
drgrant said:
Flintoid, here's a fun one for you...

What the **** is the deal with the MISR-90? Isn't it a Maadi made out of like, half chinese parts or something? I had one of those things years ago, and it ran okay, but it was a festering piece of crap. The sights were canted, and it had absurd trigger slap, and the BCG felt like you were dragging a non wheeled dumpster over a bed of rocks, that's how much it hung up when cycling it.

That said, it did actually run reliably. I can't fault it for that... but outside of that, it sucked pretty bad.

My biggest mistake ever was selling my Arsenal SAM-7 milled receiver. [crying] Maybe if I hit the lottery someday I'll get another one. That thing was like butter.

-Mike
Click to expand...

As KMS alluded to earlier, some of the post-94 "Egyptian" (use this term loosely to describe them) AKMs in the sporterized form were assembled from disassembled chinese AKs.

A huge import of Chinese AKs were in warehouses when Bush Sr. ****ed the gun import industry. As a result of this unfavorable situation, they were all demilled into parts kits. Some were built onto Maadi receivers (I think an importer ordered a bunch or some shit) and thus, you get the miserable red headed bastard child of a Chinese and an Egyptian.

Talk about f'd, eh? Well, the reason why they sucked is that the assemblers were numb nuts. All the barrel components were pressed on by US gun smiths who don't know their head from their ass, or just didn't care. I'm guessing a shitty finish was put on the receiver post build, hence the gritty feeling.

Also- chinese barrel components are meant to go on Chinese Milled or stamped rifles - their barrel journal profiles are one in the same. Milled AK barrel components are designed for a slightly beefier journals. So they had to sleeve the components in order to fit the egyptian barrels (if they used them, which I believe they did... otherwise they'd have had to modify the chinese barrel trunnions to fit maadi AKM receivers - receiver sheet metal thickness is different between chicoms stamped AKs and AKMs.) This would make the sight and gas blocks look weird as hell. I know most MISRs are Chicom trunnioned barrels in Egyptian receivers... they have the Chinese rivet pattern as well as the oblong Maadi magazine dimple, as can be seen here:

misr90rifle5om.jpg


Classic Chicom rivet pattern, signature Maadi oblong mag dimple. Signature deep Egyptian spot welds. Mind. Is. Blown.

SAM-7's are nice. Milled AKs run pretty damn smooth, that's for sure.
 
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drgrant said:
Flintoid, here's a fun one for you...

What the **** is the deal with the MISR-90? Isn't it a Maadi made out of like, half chinese parts or something? I had one of those things years ago, and it ran okay, but it was a festering piece of crap. The sights were canted, and it had absurd trigger slap, and the BCG felt like you were dragging a non wheeled dumpster over a bed of rocks, that's how much it hung up when cycling it.

That said, it did actually run reliably. I can't fault it for that... but outside of that, it sucked pretty bad.

My biggest mistake ever was selling my Arsenal SAM-7 milled receiver. [crying] Maybe if I hit the lottery someday I'll get another one. That thing was like butter.

-Mike
Click to expand...


+1
 
45collector said:
All I know is my MAK90 is an excellent shooter. A lot of folks will say the Chinese made some of the nicest AK variants out there. I'd have to agree with them as I've owned two and they both ran/run like silky-ass buttered goodness.
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flintoid said:
What you are seeing here is the classic "I have XXX rifle, therefor XXX is the best." syndrome.
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[laugh] I guess you could diagnose me with that syndrome as well.
 
M1911 said:
That's Valmet. Good luck getting an M76 in 7.62x39 for $1300. You might find an M76 tube folder in .223 for $1600 or so, but the mags will set you back ~$175 a piece.
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You are corrrect,fighting sleep and iPad auto correction it is Valmet.
 
I may be dropping a bomb here, now bare with me because i am by no means knowledgeable on AK's and their variants...But what would it take to build from the ground up well running, accurate AK? is there a particular receiver that is better than another etc etc etc? These are things that interest me because i would rather build my own. any thoughts Flintoid? (love the murderface avatar BTW!)

Dom
 
what would it take parts wise, or what would it take knowledge and tools wise?

I'm dropping some knowledge on your ass here:

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/94701-AKM-Build-How-To?highlight=ak+build
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...a-drill-or-hydraulic-press?highlight=ak+build
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...l-situations-and-language)?highlight=ak+build
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...r-with-vodka-(picture-fat)?highlight=ak+build

tools: listed in those guides

and what do you define as "accurate?" Well running is a given- you don't build to build pieces of shit. So that descriptor was useless.

For accuracy, are you talking "match grade" AR sort of shit? Or Minute Of Barn (MOB)? 5.45x39 tend to be more accurate, and I'd run my home built AK74 against a lot of the AR builds the typical NES Tool posts on this forum any day of the week.
 
flintoid said:
For accuracy, are you talking "match grade" AR sort of shit? Or Minute Of Barn (MOB)? 5.45x39 tend to be more accurate, and I'd run my home built AK74 against a lot of the AR builds the typical NES Tool posts on this forum any day of the week.
Click to expand...

Another Timber/Roland challenge?
 
In terms of accuracy, many shooters are "closeted-benchrest shooters": shooting, sitting off a block, static target, known distance, well defined silhouette. That does not play to well to AK's open sights or it's design attributes.

AKs were never a sniper's or marksman's rifle in the Soviet Army, so the whole accuracy range is relatively broad. In field conditions, shooting moving targets, the accuracy discrepancies are well nullified, i.e. you won't see a practical difference between AK shooting 1" and 1.09" groups. People who can show that difference, should be shooting a bolt or SVD or another rifle designed for accuracy alone. If your AK consistently hits rolling "watermellons" as well as your neighbors AK, you are probably within the same accuracy range.

I guess what I'm saying is, AK comes pretty fast to the point of diminishing returns, i.e. once you put your money/effort on good barrel etc. and getting good groups, any more money spent on fancier scopes, carbon fiber dustcover and titanium hammers is a waste of $.
 
THESAW249 said:
I may be dropping a bomb here, now bare with me because i am by no means knowledgeable on AK's and their variants...But what would it take to build from the ground up well running, accurate AK? is there a particular receiver that is better than another etc etc etc? These are things that interest me because i would rather build my own. any thoughts Flintoid? (love the murderface avatar BTW!)

Dom
Click to expand...

Build its fun. Decently accurate for a infantryman rifle.
 
flintoid said:
so you like romanian variants, but turn up your nose at the WASR? This has me curious- why?

all romy rifles (SARs, WUMs/CURs, etc) all had the same issues of the low cap WASR: shitty finish work, lots of cosmoline, canted sights, garbage triggers. The only thing that happens to a WASR that "gets worse" is shitty magazine well hogging by CAI.

Romanians did crazy shit on their AKs, like pressing ak74 brakes onto turned down barrels on AKM FSBs and then welding them up. WUMs and CURs had a lot of this "creative" accessorizing.

I am in no means trying to pick a fight here- I'm just curious. I like Romanian variants and all the quirks with them. They're an interesting breed of imported rifle. I've only seen one WUM before, and I don't think I could identify a CUR2... aren't they fairly similar? (5.45x39, thumbhole stock?)
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.

The WUMs and CURs are the same,same fit finish sometimes weird quirks,half moon receivers to make it next to impossible to put/worth it to convert to pistol grip,which kind of sucks because anyone with normal sized hands or small hands can barely reach the trigger(I can't reach it at all)....I guess the guy they modeled thier thumb hole stock after had abnormally large gorilla mitts.

I should recant my statement on the WASR...as it was my opinion,no dimples on a receiver aggravates me on WASRs and older Saigas.
 
Boris said:
In terms of accuracy, many shooters are "closeted-benchrest shooters": shooting, sitting off a block, static target, known distance, well defined silhouette. That does not play to well to AK's open sights or it's design attributes.

AKs were never a sniper's or marksman's rifle in the Soviet Army, so the whole accuracy range is relatively broad. In field conditions, shooting moving targets, the accuracy discrepancies are well nullified, i.e. you won't see a practical difference between AK shooting 1" and 1.09" groups. People who can show that difference, should be shooting a bolt or SVD or another rifle designed for accuracy alone. If your AK consistently hits rolling "watermellons" as well as your neighbors AK, you are probably within the same accuracy range.

I guess what I'm saying is, AK comes pretty fast to the point of diminishing returns, i.e. once you put your money/effort on good barrel etc. and getting good groups, any more money spent on fancier scopes, carbon fiber dustcover and titanium hammers is a waste of $.
Click to expand...

I remember the first Romi G kit you built. You out shot half the people on the line at one of the Sippican milsurp shoots with it.

Of course it was only fitting given where you were from.:D

Sent from my Ally using Tapatalk 2
 
THESAW249 said:
I may be dropping a bomb here, now bare with me because i am by no means knowledgeable on AK's and their variants...But what would it take to build from the ground up well running, accurate AK? is there a particular receiver that is better than another etc etc etc? These are things that interest me because i would rather build my own. any thoughts Flintoid? (love the murderface avatar BTW!)

Dom
Click to expand...

Well, there are definitely some AK's that due to the a number of factors can be more accurate than others. It's not at all unheard of for converted Saiga AK's produce to sub-MOA groups pretty handily using quality ammunition. That being said, the quality of one Saiga rifle can vary from the next and there are many different builders if you aren't converting it yourself. An AK-pattern rifle like the Vepr is usually very accurate out of the box, but you're going to pay extra for a rifle with an RPK spec receiver and trunion and a high quality heavy barrel. Price on the Veprs ran from $700 to $1,300 depending on the model, and Saigas about 40% less for similar models a couple of months ago.
 
flintoid said:
I'll knock the topic of "licensed builders" out quick, then-

Judgement of AK builders in the United States is difficult for me, personally, because I haven't handled their builds. But from what I read on the internet and the subsequent pictorial reviews, Piece of History does fine work. So does Gewehr Werks. There are a bunch of other builders who do good work, but you could go look up the vendors over at www.theakforum.net and find other people who do good work.

Matt Yaemans does fine re-welding work. I had a soviet milled type 3 PLO kit rewelded by him and it turned out very nice. I did some of my own refinishing/blending of the weld lines, but the rifle came back from him in good form.

The widely known licensed gunsmiths in Massachusetts generally suck at building AKs. I've seen some hack jobs of MA renowned 1911 'smiths that look worse than the work I do when black out hammered. Seriously. I did see pictures of (I think) Jasper's AK, and it seemed to be done well enough. I think he had it done in MA but I don't know by who.

Anyone can modify an AK, and general compliance work is easily done. Price should govern who is doing it, unless you are a stickler for finish work, etc. Then you'd have to be the judge of that (who is willing to do the work as you want it done, etc).
Click to expand...

Matt Yeamans is great. Hes done all the work on my Zastava. He doesn't do refinishing, as I took care of that myself as well, but everything else, awesome work.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
 
The butchered reworked ak/akm's kept me away from buying any of them till they were banned here(CT). But i love my brand new russian izmash saiga's in 223 and in 308win there the best quality that russia has to offer us. The fit, the finish and the accuracy is unmatched. Plus its a brand new russian ak/akm rifle. I left all my saiga's in there orginal form too so they can go hunting with no look of an evil assualt rifle. Bill
 
I need help here. I shot Ray's AMD and now I want one very badly. I always wanted to start my AK collection and this seems like a good start [grin]. Any info is appreciated. To buy a kit and which one ? Buy one new? Buy one off a website etc etc. Thanks.
 
ColdDayInHell said:
I need help here. I shot Ray's AMD and now I want one very badly. I always wanted to start my AK collection and this seems like a good start [grin]. Any info is appreciated. To buy a kit and which one ? Buy one new? Buy one off a website etc etc. Thanks.
Click to expand...

AMD-65's are pretty bad-ass. You tried Ray's so you already know that they're ugly, loud as hell, and flashy on the firing line. Not very practical in any means beyond taking AK mags and folding up nice and tight, but they are incredibly fun to shoot.

Now- for your questions I have to ask you:

Can you build an AK? Do you have the means to do this?

If so- buy a kit and build. Kits are not available at ak-builder and the like, but you can find them in classified sections on the ak files or the ak forum.

Receivers: check nodak, or order a custom through 74ullc.

If not- buy a rifle. But you might have to wait for this. The typical carriers are OOS, and then you'd have to get it shipped to a FFL that would be willing to Massify it for you.

The thing about the store-bought AMD-65's is that they're made on Hungarian receivers that have been modified to accept double stack mags. Early on these conversions sucked. Now they are looking great. Ray's gun is a good conversion, and it's cool because it's a hungarian parts kit on a hungarian receiver. My AMD-65 is a very, very used hungarian parts kit on a Nodak receiver.

The ****er is all over the place at 100 yards. I can barely keep it on a 11x8.5" sheet of paper. Conscript Yuri must have used my rifle in it's previous life for genocide or dicking off while spraying the sky- it's seen some usage.

AMD65.jpg
 
flintoid said:
AMD-65's are pretty bad-ass. You tried Ray's so you already know that they're ugly, loud as hell, and flashy on the firing line. Not very practical in any means beyond taking AK mags and folding up nice and tight, but they are incredibly fun to shoot.

Now- for your questions I have to ask you:

Can you build an AK? Do you have the means to do this?

If so- buy a kit and build. Kits are not available at ak-builder and the like, but you can find them in classified sections on the ak files or the ak forum.

Receivers: check nodak, or order a custom through 74ullc.

If not- buy a rifle. But you might have to wait for this. The typical carriers are OOS, and then you'd have to get it shipped to a FFL that would be willing to Massify it for you.

The thing about the store-bought AMD-65's is that they're made on Hungarian receivers that have been modified to accept double stack mags. Early on these conversions sucked. Now they are looking great. Ray's gun is a good conversion, and it's cool because it's a hungarian parts kit on a hungarian receiver. My AMD-65 is a very, very used hungarian parts kit on a Nodak receiver.

The ****er is all over the place at 100 yards. I can barely keep it on a 11x8.5" sheet of paper. Conscript Yuri must have used my rifle in it's previous life for genocide or dicking off while spraying the sky- it's seen some usage.

AMD65.jpg
Click to expand...

Thank you, yeah it was very fun to shoot and loud for x39. Would make a good truck gun. Not looking for accuracy anyways. I'll do some research when I get home.
 
you picture raises another valid point of the 7.62x39 platform: no other rifle platform has such a variety of magazines, readily available, with capacities above 30 rounds. Drum mags of various capacity (120, 75 rounds) and 40 round RPK mags are plentiful.

It makes the 7.62x39 platform (AKM, AK47) that much more appealing.
 
I've been telling cold to get a kit for months . I got all the tools to build a ak.

I'm going to build a basics akm x39 first my self.
But What do you guys think of a tantal build?
I know its a odd ball with the sector switch , different receiver etc.but I'm not sure if it just be a gay waste of money since it be semi only.
 

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