AIM Surplus BCG Staked Properly?

RichLec

RichLec

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New to AR's. I got this AIMSurplus BCG during their 89.95 sale. Is this properly staked? Don't want to have issues with my first build.
BCGStaking.jpg

Is this BCG Staked properly?

Thank you for your time!
Rich
 
Looks good to go! Have fun

I have a couple aim BCG's and they are great for the money.
 
Those ones on the right side are "decent". .That rear left one completely sucks. It is a fair job and "should" be fine. I personally would re-stake it myself because that overall job is sub-par.
 
I bet if you try to take those screws out they turn out easily.

I've bought a few of the aim BCGs and none of them had the key installed properly.

Here's what I did to make them right.

1) removed the bolts and key
2) cleaned all the oil and grease off the bolts, key, carrier, and bolt holes.
3) apply loctite part number 27010 to the bottom of the key, bolt holes, and bolts.
4) Torque to 55 in lbs.
5) I don't stake because I believe if its not done right, you do more harm than good and have never had trouble. But I'm not advocating others do this.

With this done, I've never had any trouble with an AIM BCG. I have one with about 3000 rounds through it. Not a lot, but it was all full auto, pretty much 30 to 90 rounds at a time. This was part of my low budget MG upper build. ($290 total into the upper)

Don
 
I would at least check to see if they are tight.
Those stakes are weak. Although they might hold just fine. So find someone with a inch pound torque wrench and check them. Over tight can be just as bad as loose.

A bit over kill for diy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3ocIfzf4MI

Just be careful if you try to restake it yourself. Make sure you have secure way of holding the BCG or you may make it ugly.
 
Last edited:
I wouldn't worry about it. There are like 1000x more threads on the internet of "is my gas key staked properly?" than there are actual accounts of anyone's gas key coming loose.

That being said, objectively, metal was deformed by the staking process on yours to the point of an interference -- it was done correctly.
 
thormx538 said:
I wouldn't worry about it. There are like 1000x more threads on the internet of "is my gas key staked properly?" than there are actual accounts of anyone's gas key coming loose.

That being said, objectively, metal was deformed by the staking process on yours to the point of an interference -- it was done correctly.
Click to expand...

Agreed. My process of using red loctite and properly torquing the bolts has never resulted in any problems.

By the way. All of my Aim BCGs were too loose in addition to not having any loctite or adequate staking.
 
dcmdon said:
Agreed. My process of using red loctite and properly torquing the bolts has never resulted in any problems.

By the way. All of my Aim BCGs were too loose in addition to not having any loctite or adequate staking.
Click to expand...

The two old armors at our cluib say you should put permatex gasket seasler between key and carrier ? anyone do this.
 
mac1911 said:
The two old armors at our cluib say you should put permatex gasket seasler between key and carrier ? anyone do this.
Click to expand...
true, and they use Avaition Permatex sealant. Only thing I ever do is check to make sure they are at 40-60 inch lbs, I like to set my Torque Wrench at 55 inch lbs , I have never found one under 40lbs so far .
 
mikelawtown said:
true, and they use Avaition Permatex sealant. Only thing I ever do is check to make sure they are at 40-60 inch lbs, I like to set my Torque Wrench at 55 inch lbs , I have never found one under 40lbs so far .
Click to expand...

I've heard that also. I've googled around to see what the official Colt method is and can't find it. Does anyone have a Colt armorer's manual?

For what its worth, Loctite (and Permatex for 30 years) were located about 3 miles away from colt. I dont' know if it matters but who knows.
 
Using sealant on the key didn't sound familiar at all, but all my years were in the M16A2 & M4 era.

No mention of using any sealant in the December 1996 release of the M16A2/M4A1 maintenance manual (TM 9-1005-319-23, Section 3-9 Key and Bolt Carrier Assembly)

It's possible that the addition of sealant was part of the fix to the reliability issues with the M16 that the M16A1 addressed; and was later found to be unnecessary. It's not like the key or carrier changed at all. When my unit was digging M16A1s out of storage for conversion to M16A2, the only parts reused were the lower and BCG.
 
That's interesting.

I just dug out my Marine Corps armorer's manual and it says that if the bolt carrier key is loose to replace the carrier. Ha. lots of help.

Again, I'd like to see what Colt's current method is.

Don
 
RichLec said:
So, I am going to make sure the bolts aren't loose and go from there..
Click to expand...

Spend the extra 5 minutes and remove the key, spray it, the carrier and the bolts with brake cleaner or another degreaser then loctite them. Its no big deal, requires no tools and is stupid easy.

If you buy the wheeler engineering scope mounting kit, it comes with an inch pound torque wrench.
http://smile.amazon.com/Wheeler-Sco...gineering+scope+mounting+combo+kit+1+and+30mm


And everyone should have some loctite at home. Use the blue if you don't have red. Its better than nothing.

Don
 
dcmdon said:
Spend the extra 5 minutes and remove the key, spray it, the carrier and the bolts with brake cleaner or another degreaser then loctite them. Its no big deal, requires no tools and is stupid easy.

If you buy the wheeler engineering scope mounting kit, it comes with an inch pound torque wrench.
http://smile.amazon.com/Wheeler-Sco...gineering+scope+mounting+combo+kit+1+and+30mm


And everyone should have some loctite at home. Use the blue if you don't have red. Its better than nothing.

Don
Click to expand...
Found this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0012AXR4S/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER i assume this is the same wrench?

I do have blue locktite but you recommend red?

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
 
Yes same torque wrench. Its your money, but for another $50 you might as well get the whole scope mounting kit.

Red is better. I mentioned blue because you said you weren't going to loctite it at all. And blue is better than nothing.

Don
 
Blue is semi permanent, red is supposed to be permanent. When using loctite its good to have a small map gas or propane torch. Its heat sensitive. I like to warm up the bolt heads after torqued so it hardens.
 
The other thing to remember about loctite is its strength goes down when it is heated (I believe) beyond 600 degrees.

I'm not sure if an AR can get a gas key that hot. But I'd guess that in a military situation in a prolonged firefight, it could.

During one of the carbine courses I've taken, the gun got hot enough so I couldn't touch the delta ring with an ungloved hand.

But I dont' think there is a lot of need for the bolt to be truly locked. Even loctite that has been heated up still provides some damping against vibration loosening. Loctite says to heat "red" up to 250C/480F for disassembly.

I did a test with a mapp gas torch to see how much the Red Loctite breaks down. And it still provides some hold. I was curious so I simply degreased a quarter inch nut and bolt, then screwed the bolt into the nut with red loctite. Then I clamped the bolt head in my vise and heated the nut up with a torch. The Loctite had definitely broken down. But there was a kind of "mushy" resistance as I turne dthe bolt. This is probably all that is needed to keep properly torqued bolts in place. But what do I know?

Don
 
84ta406 said:
Blue is semi permanent, red is supposed to be permanent. When using loctite its good to have a small map gas or propane torch. Its heat sensitive. I like to warm up the bolt heads after torqued so it hardens.
Click to expand...

I dont think loctite will benefit from any type of pre or post warming of the parts unless your working below its working temp. A clean dry surface is all it needs... What should be used is loctite primer. basically any metal that is coated is recommended to use the primer.

(Primers Recommended)
Plated Parts
Anodized Aluminum
Titanium
Stainless Steel
Galvanized Steel
Zinc
Pure Aluminum
Cadmium
Magnesium
Natural or Chemical
Black Oxide
Magnetite Steel
Inconel®
Silver
Gold
Active Metals
(Primers Optional)
Iron
Plain Steel
Copper
Brass
Bronze
Nickel
Manganese
Monel®
Kovar®
6
When should I use a Loctite®
primer?
Speed up cure
Significantly speed up the cure time of
Loctite®
threadlockers when assembling
metal parts that are cold, have large gaps
or deep threads.
Inactive metal assemblies*
When assembling metal parts with inactive surfaces, Loctite®
primers are
recommended to ensure proper performance of Loctite®
threadlockers.
Loctite®
threadlockers cure in the absence of air and presence of metal ions. When assembling inactive metal parts, which are
low in metal ions, the use of Loctite®
primers are recommended to ensure proper performance of Loctite®
threadlockers.
 
Loctite on the gas key screws is pretty pointless. From the OP photo, I would call the staking job poor, but very easily fixed with a vise, hammer, and punch.
 
dcmdon said:
Why do you say loctite is pointless? Even when it gets hot, it still has some hold
Click to expand...

If the key is staked correctly the loctite is not necessary. If the staking is bad, I wouldn't trust even red loctite to hold it. It's very easy to correct a bad stake job, so I would just do that. Loctite is great stuff, but I don't think this is a good use for it.
 
All 7 of my BCG's are staked, but with that said I have this info from Young Manufacturing:

There has been a lot of talk about the pros and cons of staking the gas key on the carrier. Here is our opinion and why Young Manufacturing will not stake keys. We have been making carriers since 1991. The US Mil Spec. assembly drawing requires the carrier key to be staked. Contrary to some popular opinions staking does not “SEAL” the gas key. Staking keeps the screws from backing out Period. If you do not properly torque the screws to 56 inch pounds you will be staking a screw that is loose or one that is over torqued and prone to breakage. We have seen plenty of staked screws that are loose or broken. The Mil Spec. also calls for the gas key bottom surface to be “SEALED” with Permatex gasket sealer. Something no one does to our knowledge. Here is our procedure for installing a gas key. First clean the oil from the gas key and the mating surface on the carrier. Then clean the oil from the screw threads. We use break cleaner for this. Next use a very light coating of Permatex high strength thread locker gel on the bottom of the key. PN 27010. This is much easier to use than the Permatex gasket sealer. It comes in a plastic twist dispenser. Make sure you don’t use so much that it squishes into the gas port hole. The cure rate is 60 minutes. Next coat the screw threads with the same gel. Install the key and torque the screws to 56 inch pounds. Should you decide to remove the key for some reason don’t use the old screws when you put the key back on! You will most likely break them during installation or when you fire the rifle. Go to the local hardware store and buy new 10-32 x ¼” SHCS. If you feel the need to stake the screws spend the money and get one of the staking tools from Brownell that uses a screw type system to swedge the material into the top of the screw. Don’t use a hammer and a punch! You can stretch the thread on the screw and now you have a loose screw that will eventually break if the gun even fires. We will not warrantee a carrier with a staked key no matter who staked it. You will be charged for a new key and any labor required to remove broken screws.Good Shooting!
Daniel H Young
President
Click to expand...
 

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