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Administration urges SCOTUS to reject 2A claim (Sessions vs. Binderup)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by endus, May 25, 2017.

  1. endus

    endus

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    1 person likes this.
  2. JRLB

    JRLB NES Member

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    I'm not surprised. Repubs and dems are the same coin just different sides.
     
  3. Reptile

    Reptile NES Member

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    Not good optics to support the gun rights of a 41 year old glazing the 17 year old doughnut at the bakery.
     
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  4. eboos

    eboos

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    Although these are not the best plaintiffs, this is the disturbing part: "Although the two men pleaded guilty to misdemeanors, their crimes could have been punished by more than a year in jail".
     
  5. firestorm

    firestorm

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    Screw optics, how about the second amendment protects a RIGHT. Rights should not be removed for minor crimes, if he raped her then convict him of it. If not, and it was probably a matter of her being above the age of consent since statutory rape seems like an easy kill there, then why are we taking his rights?
     
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  6. Chevy 2 65

    Chevy 2 65 NES Member

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    SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED
     
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  7. firestorm

    firestorm

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    Yeah I think this is the misdafelony case that has the potential to fix the mass first time DUI no jail time but permanent rights loss BS.
     
  8. Lcstyle

    Lcstyle

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    quote of the century:

    Attorney Alan Gura, a gun rights advocate who represents the two men, said he was disappointed but not surprised.
    “I am not shocked by it. The government never likes to have its authority limited,” said Gura, a Virginia lawyer who brought the landmark 2008 case District of Columbia vs. Heller,
     
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  9. bigblue

    bigblue

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    That pretty much sums this whole thing up.
     
  10. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    Lol, so much for Trump being pro RKBA. How long did that last, 100 or so days? [rofl] Gives lip service at NRA, now is telling SCOTUS to screw gun owners. The plaintiffs may be half scumbag but the rights being protected here are more important than that.

    Of course within a few hours a few resident statism apologists will post in this thread about how "if these guys wanted their rights they shouldn't have broken the lawr" or some garbage like that. If their crimes are that heinous they should have been punished more appropriately- not subjected to the whims of extrajudicial punishment that is carried out without explicit due process protections.

    -Mike
     
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  11. cockpitbob

    cockpitbob NES Member

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    Is this normal for the WH to be lobbying the SCOTUS? I remember the uproar when Obama admonished the SCOTUS on some topic. I thought the SCOTUS was supposed to be such a separate branch of the .gov that they are almost isolated. They don't talk to or lobby Congress or the WH and vise versa.
     
  12. Chevy 2 65

    Chevy 2 65 NES Member

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    yes, but don't be fooled. it's for sure happening and always will.
     
  13. GlockJock

    GlockJock NES Member

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    This.
    What the absolute fuq???
     
  14. JRLB

    JRLB NES Member

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    It's that statist ***hole Sessions and the justice dept that's doing this, not necessarily the WH.
     
  15. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    Uhh, it is the WH, because Trump appointed the piece of shit, and could also likely give him directives on it that he probably would obey.

    I don't think it's "illegal" per se but it's probably precariously close to some kind of line. Telling the supreme court what to do always had horrible optics surrounding it, regardless of who did it and why they did it.

    -Mike
     
  16. oldguy68

    oldguy68 NES Member

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    The whole prohibited person thing was written to prevent a certain ethnic group from obtaining firearms!

    Shall not be infringed applies to everyone!
    Criminals are free men once they serve their time and the right to bear arms shall not be taken from free men!

    The founders of this nation were very weary of a standing Federal army.
    That is why they wrote the second amendment to guarantee the individual right to keep and bear arms!
    They always intended the people be armed and outnumber the standing army as they wanted to avoid what the British had done to their own people!
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
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  17. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA NES Member

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    Thankfully:

    A) We have momentum on our side for strengthening 2A rights.

    B) We have a conservative majority on the court.

    C) What Trump or Sessions wants the Court to do is irrelevant. It would be analogous to the SCOTUS to tell Trump to get busy filing some tax legislation ASAP.


    Before I was a gun owner, I had a real problem with curtailing rights of people convicted of crimes. At some point, your debt to society is over. Either that or you should be imprisoned for life, however short we are able to make that.

    You can decide on an entire class of people based on "well that guy SHOULD have been charged with rape but wasn't." Tough! You can't pick and choose who gets what right on an individual basis.
     
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  18. EddieCoyle

    EddieCoyle Consigliere Moderator NES Member

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  19. bigblue

    bigblue

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    He is pro 2A when it fits the statist agenda not when it restricts .gov power.

    Also, this is a longstanding tradition in DC not to scuttle the ongoing lawsuits from previous admins.
     
  20. endus

    endus

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    Despite my obvious dislike of Trump, I tend to agree with this.

    Trump isn't a gun guy and of course a lot of his 2a support was/is obviously political posturing. We should also see this type of thing coming any time someone says they're the, "law and order" candidate.

    However, I definitely think Sessions (whom I admittedly dislike even more than Trump) is behind this. He is a typical statist RINO and he's whispering in Trumps ear bigtime on this.
     
  21. Carl in Ct

    Carl in Ct

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    Help I'm steppin' into the twilight zone
    Not cool, not cool at all. It really burns my toast that one of the reasons they gave to continue screwing with the 2A is because it would clog up the courts to change now. Well, gee, aint that a shame. Maybe if you ass hats didn't illegally remove people's constitutional rights in the first place you wouldn't be afraid of clogging up the courts to fix it. So if we find hard evidence that a guy on death row is innocent we should not re-open his case because it would clog up the court so we just go ahead and execute him?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
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  22. eboos

    eboos

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    This is just a matter of sucky plaintiffs. There is a saying that "bad facts = bad law". There will be better cases coming up to address this issue. But for the misdemeanor convictions being treated as felonies, I am surprised this case is as far along as it is.
     
  23. EddieCoyle

    EddieCoyle Consigliere Moderator NES Member

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    Maybe Trump can talk to Sessions's boss.
     
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  24. tuna

    tuna NES Member

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    Well, let's see how this plays out in court. At least it shouldn't be a tie. I'd feel better if Ruthie dropped dead and was replaced before this came up.

    I've always said that there should be no limit on a man not in jail from owning a firearm. If he's THAT dangerous - either put him down, or keep him locked up. If parole boards had to think about these animals being able to legally obtain guns (because they know these guys won't get a gun, it's against the law, right?) as soon as they step out of prison, maybe they wouldn't be so quick to release them.
     
  25. Obie1

    Obie1 NES Member

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    Putin? He's busy
     
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  26. JRLB

    JRLB NES Member

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    I'm not a Trump guy either. I think he's a giant turd sandwich. I agree Sessions is likely behind this. He doesn't need any prodding from Trump.
     
  27. MichaelJames1971

    MichaelJames1971

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    ZZZZ-iiinnnnnggggg!
     
  28. terraformer

    terraformer NES Member

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    The solicitor general's job (he was asked by SCOTUS to file a reply when AG sessions failed to do so) is to fight to retain whatever laws/regs that the legislature and executive branch put in place. This has nothing to do with Trump. Anyone who is stating that this SG's response reflects the policy wishes of the Trump admin is shoveling fake news...

    Oh, and you can bet that's why documents filed with the court months ago are now just being touted as Trump hating on the 2A. Someone wanted to make gun owners hate Trump right about now. Mission Accomplished, if this thread is to be believed...
     
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  29. Knuckle Dragger

    Knuckle Dragger NES Member

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    For the sake of continuity, this really should have been added to the existing Binderup thread.

    This isn't surprising at all given that this is the certiorari stage. It's highly unusual for the government to NOT defend it's laws and you typically only see it with very public and political issues. A good example is when the Obama administration failed to defend DOMA. And, at this point, the government isn't actually defending the law, they're just trying to keep SCOTUS from taking the case. We'll get a better sense of where the Session DOJ and Trump administration stand if SCOTUS actually grants cert. and they actively try to defend that law. But, I do believe they'll continue to defend it.

    No, actually Binderup is a very good plaintiff. If you want to challenge these types of prohibitions you're not going to be able to do it with an Eagle Scout. By definition your plaintiffs are going to be from the scratch and dent crowd.

    This isn't lobbying. The federal government, represented by the Attorney General and the President are parties to this law suit. During the certiorari stage, the direct parties (here Binderup and the Federal Government) try to convince the court to take the case and grant cert. or not. Others, who are not direct parties to the case also weigh in trying to sway the court one way or the other by filing amici briefs. Comm2A has filed a number of these with the Supreme Court over the years, both on our own are in concert with other state organizations.

    If SCOTUS grants cert., this cycle starts all over again with the direct parties and amici all filing a new set of briefs.

    As others have pointed out, this is a critical issue for Massachusetts because of the Commonwealth's longstanding efforts to exclude as many people as possible from the Second Amendment. Even now, we're waiting on the First Circuit for a decision in a very similar case - Morin v. Leahy.
     
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  30. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

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    I would rather have someone with an old OUI than a history of porking the underage.
     
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