Actor David Spade helps Phoenix PD buy rifles

[MassMark]

As another poster has pointed out, many of our M16A1s are part of overseas military aid packages or are being held in strategic reserve.

Let me pose this question to you: Do think the Federal Government should be supplying weaponry and other technology to state and local LE organizations? The truth of the matter is that state and local LE are so in bed with the Feds that it reaches the point where it should be cause for concern. Sooner or later when you take gifts or aid from the Feds, the Feds are going to call in their marker.

Currently law enforcement in this country is predominately local, but a de facto national police force is just around the corner, given the unprecedented degree of cooperation between the Feds and State and locals since 9/11.

Mark L.

Thank you... +1

 

[bpm990d]

From Gazette, The (Colorado Springs), Feb 11, 2007

Colorado Springs patrol officers are getting more firepower: AR- 15 rifles, in addition to their handguns and shotguns.

The rifles, worth an estimated $140,000, were free under a military program that sheds surplus supplies.

The 140 guns have been converted to semiautomatic for civilian use. The Police Department paid $5,000 in shipping.

The military has been giving surplus M-16A1s to police since 9/11. I would not feel under gunned with an A1 to just about anyone, but it looks like they need to have the latest and greatest M-4s so they can look bad ass. I'd rather see them get training and be equipped with A1s instead of paying for fancy new rifles and no training.

B

EDIT - Yes, I want cops to have the equipment to deal with nut jobs like the guys in the North Hollywood bank hold up.

 

[mark056]

From Gazette, The (Colorado Springs), Feb 11, 2007
EDIT - Yes, I want cops to have the equipment to deal with nut jobs like the guys in the North Hollywood bank hold up.

We can debate the North Hollywood shootout until hell freezes over, but consider this: the whole concept of SWAT or special units is to deal like the incident in North Hollywood. I know that there was a great clamoring to get rifles into the hands of rank and file patrol officers in the aftermath. In effect though, the rank and file did what they should have which was lay down supressive fire to contain the gunmen until the SWAT team arrived to finish the job. The stories of LAPD members rushing into sporting goods stores and grabbing rifles off the rack make for colorful newspaper copy, but some might also see the initial reaction as poor leadership exercised under fire, and perhaps poor training. The mission should have been (and ultimately was) to contain until the "big guns" arrived.

Now training with patrol rifles requires more hours of training which in turn has to be budgeted. Someone issued an AR15 or an M16 as a civilian police officer will require a higher degree of training than a soldier. That means more training hours and more money spent. Using a rifle in an urban situation with much different rules of engagement than a soldier in combat, creates a host of other problems as well. Frankly, it is hard enough to get many officers qualified on their issued handguns, and having everyone qualify on a rifle is going to cause more problems than it might be worth in the long run. You see, most cops are not really "into" guns and view them not much differently than flashlights, pens or other pieces of LE equipment.

You have a lot more faith in police marksmanship than I do, apparently.

In the past there have been aid packages in getting M16's into state and local agencies but I believe that those have been curtailed due to our commtments in Iraq and Afghanistan. If these packages have not been curtailed, then they have at least been cut back.

A personal question for you: Have you ever qualified on an M16 or AR15? Could you engage mutiple targets and varying distances in various positions 40 out of 40? We are not qualifiying as an Army Marksman here, as there is no room for error because the heirs of the collateral damage are going to sue.

Mark L.

 

[EddieCoyle]

What's the 990 for?

 

[blindndead]

I hope he got one for his home also.

 

[Pilgrim]

I keep mixing him up with:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000652/

 

[bpm990d]

There are lots of other threads on the board that go into topics about the police having too much firepower and becoming militarized. I'm not really going to get into that here.

I think they have the same rights as other citizens and would not want to put artificial limitations on them, although I don't think they should have any more rights that regular citizens. If ten round magazines is all citizens can have, then it should apply to the police as well.

I know cops are not gun guys by and large, but it seems that they have no problem paying to look like they are gun guys. They really are wasting resources on the latest whiz bang rifles when they could get nearly the same thing for free and put that money to use somewhere else.

B

 

[45collector]

I keep mixing him up with:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000652/

You mean the BMW driving prick in "Pretty In Pink"?

 

[vellnueve]

I disagree with the idea that SWAT negates the need for patrol rifles. When you have an "active shooter" situation, the first officers on the scene often need to go in immediately to stop the threat. It can take an hour or more for any SWAT team to be ready to go.

 

[PatMcD]

A personal question for you: Have you ever qualified on an M16 or AR15? Could you engage mutiple targets and varying distances in various positions 40 out of 40?
Mark L.

Assuming this is directed at bpm990d........

I think Brian may be too modest to reply to this, so I'll just mention that he is a current Distinguished High Master with the AR15. Also shot for the Army Reserve.

Yeah, I think he has qualified with the AR.

 

[mark056]

Assuming this is directed at bpm990d........

I think Brian may be too modest to reply to this, so I'll just mention that he is a current Distinguished High Master with the AR15. Also shot for the Army Reserve.

Yeah, I think he has qualified with the AR.

Brian is a modest man...and the 990 (990/1000) is part of his screen name. I am well aware of his prowess with the rifle, and were he a police officer, he would be one of the few that could be reliably trusted to use a patrol rifle, IMO.

My concluding remarks were an attempt at wry humor...probably too wry.

Mark L.

 

[Cross-X]

Maybe he can throw a few freebies the NES way...

 

[stoneypete]

I keep mixing him up with:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000652/

Are you calling a spader a spade?

Part of me thinks it's a good thing. SWAT is needed in some parts of the country and as long as the city does not skimp on the "T" (tactics) which requires trainging. But part of me thinks it's too large a bribe...er, I mean gift. Do you really think Dave is gonna get in ANY trouble in town now?

 

[mikem317]

Cool. Nice to see another Hollywood actor that's not a hoplophobe.

 

[bpm990d]

Brian is a modest man...and the 990 (990/1000) is part of his screen name. I am well aware of his prowess with the rifle, and were he a police officer, he would be one of the few that could be reliably trusted to use a patrol rifle, IMO.

With any type of competitive activity, you are really only as good as the performance you had that day.

While I would trust myself with a patrol rifle, I've never been to a carbine class or carried one in harms way. I'm pretty low on that totem pole but it's an awkward measuring stick to use. I once knew a guy with a CIB in my chain of command that insisted the AK47 could shoot 5.56 in an emergency. Yeah, Ok, don't forget your safety glasses.

B

 

[Kalahari]

Wow. I used to really dislike him. Seems like a decent guy.