92 Year old woman shot in Atlanta after firing on cops

[tele_mark]

Despite how tragic this incident was, I can't help but be inspired by the fact that this 92 year old woman blasted away with a gun at what she thought was an intruder breaking into her home in an attempt to defend herself and hers. It says alot about her spirit and the different era/area that created her. May she find rest as the independent spirit she was.

 

[JonJ]

Despite how tragic this incident was, I can't help but be inspired by the fact that this 92 year old woman blasted away with a gun at what she thought was an intruder breaking into her home in an attempt to defend herself and hers. It says alot about her spirit and the different era/area that created her. May she find rest as the independent spirit she was.

Or she was protecting her stash.

 

[RKG]

A minister was killed in Boston on a warrant served at the wrong address a few years ago. It happens, sadly.

Although, this seems like they served the right address, but got the wrong person in this case because the old woman thought she was being invaded, and shot first.

There was an episode approx. 2 years ago where some older folks (in their 70's as I recall) WERE dealing drugs. So, it's possible that this woman was too.

Not exactly, as to the Boston incident.

The street address on the search warrant was correct, so far as it went. However, there were three apartments, one on each floor. The CI, whose information was correct, was from a European culture where one refers to what we think of as the first floor as the "ground floor" and what we think of as the second floor as the "premier etage" (literally the first level, but in context the first level above the ground floor), and so forth.

The controlled buy was made on what we call the third floor, but which the referred to as the "deuxieme etage." The police officers who applied for the warrant, the ADA who approved the application, and the judge who granted it, all took this to mean the second floor.

The warrant was issued, therefore, for the second floor and served on the second floor.

The occupant of the second floor was a retired minister, who was home alone at the time. He refused commands to get down on the floor and strenuously resisted being secured. As a result of his exertion, he suffered and died from a heart attack.

Let's face it boys and girls: unless you want to live in anarchy, you need laws and someone to enforce them. Incidents like this will happen, but if the minister had simply followed orders, the police officers would have quickly devined their mistake and left (absent a warrant for the third floor, they could not have proceeded upstairs). At worst, he would have had to go to the station, but his maximum exposure was to nothing more than the sort of inconvenience that goes with living in an ordered society.

Instead, for whatever reason, he chose to fight. In this case, the officers did not shoot or anything like that; the man died as a result of his own actions. The rule is: when the police show up, say "Yes, sir" and do what you're told. Differences will be settled in the station or in court, not in the street. You really wouldn't want it any other way.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I have a 60+ yo neighbor who deals/dealt cocaine (I don't know if she gave up after getting caught or not). She served a whooping 6 months of house arrest. BTW, she also drove a special needs bus for the town school system, working off part of her real estate tax bill at the same time she was dealing. Now she works at Wal-Mart!

So age is not an attribute that determines guilt or innocence. There is serious money to be made there and it attracts all sorts of people. Rscalzo is right.

I also think he's right that it was probably the grand-kids and friends who were dealing out of her house and she probably didn't know about it. Time will tell.

On the other hand, as I've stated numerous times, if the police swarm your house and you try to defend your self/homestead (let's assume she didn't hear/know that it was the police), you will DIE in place!

 

[dwarven1]

On the other hand, as I've stated numerous times, if the police swarm your house and you try to defend your self/homestead (let's assume she didn't hear/know that it was the police), you will DIE in place!

There's just something wrong with that statement...

 

[Len-2A Training]

Ross, let me put it this way . . .

You're walking down a path between 2 buildings with no way out except straight ahead, no cover and you are CCW'g. A 10 year old starts walking towards you, draws a gun and starts shooting at you.

What do you do? Return fire on a CHILD?? Accept your fate because "it's just not right for an adult to shoot a child?"

It's a Hobson's choice, but that is what real life is about some times.

The police get fired upon, they will return fire. If they are properly trained with firearms (SWAT/HRT), they will most likely hit their target. They all want to go home at end of shift.

Sorry but reality can often times be rather cold.

 

[dwarven1]

It was more the "if police swarm your house" part of the statement that bothers me, Len. I dislike having to fear the cops, even if "police swarm[ing] your house" would only happen by mistake.

I can see where some people would need to be arrested that way, but what bothers me is that it could happen to the wrong person... which brings me back to "do they really need the SWAT team" in the first place.

I don't know the answers, I'm just wondering if there are any better solutions.

 

[adweisbe]

Any updates on the guilt/innocence or correctness of the address used in the raid?

 

[BigRich06]

Number one if this was nt the suspect they were intending to go after or hot she still SHOT AT COPS!!!. If it was me or you we would have shot back as well. Do not monday morning QB these officers becuase they killed in some of your minds "an innocent 92 y/o woman" There are NO FACTS that say she was innocent. And fighting the battle to say she was to old to sell drugs is ridiculous.

"Still... the person they shot was NOT the person who was dealing the drugs."

Now it did say that the undercover officers bought from a male in the house earlier in the day. This does not mean the 92 y/o lady knew nothing about what was going on. She may have may not have i dont know and you do not know.

Lets look at the facts. The officers bought drugs from this home earlier in the day. The officers legally got a search warrant and legally executed it. The officers were then SHOT AT and returned fire (which anyone would do).

Now to say "stop raids" lets not let the liberal state of MA get to you. Most of these dealers obv. keep a big bulk of thier stock in thier homes. Not only that but there are also meth labs and whatnot set up inside homes. Now you mean to say that these drugs/labs should not be taken away becuase they are in someones home?? If the police legally get a warrant to take drugs off the streets who can potentially supply to god knows who then im all for it. If you dont like the raids dont do the drugs.

 

[vellnueve]

This is just one more reminder that the decision to shoot can have serious consequences. What do you expect the police to do? Lay down and die because she's old? These guys want to live just as much as anyone else. Once someone starts shooting at you, all other considerations go out the window and you shoot back.

 

[sksguns]

If you're not breaking the law then you have nothing to worry about. The police make a mistake and nobody is hur then no harm no foul. They can raid my house whenever...I have absolutely NOTHING to hide!!! I'll take the ride to the station to sort it out or even appear in court if I have to. If it cost me out of pocket money and they were clearly in the wrong, i'll work to get it back...Worst case i have a great story for my grandchildren.

This anti-cop sentiment is crap. If anyone thinks life would be better without law enforcement there are a few third world countries where the real estate is cheap. Have at it....

Mistakes get made. Poeple have a bad taste in their mouth because the police did something to their friend or family member and they feel it was wrong. So now they hate cops too.....thus the minister who resisted for no reason. Heart attack and dead. If he stayed calm and did what he was told....well, maybe he wouldn't have died. Not all cops are good but the majority of them are not bad.

They are serving us and if they make a mistake once in a while so be it. We do not have to antagonize the situation. That doesn't help anything. We've seen what it does do.

 

[Biff Quizler]

Lets look at the facts. The officers bought drugs from this home earlier in the day. The officers legally got a search warrant and legally executed it. The officers were then SHOT AT and returned fire (which anyone would do).

Thank you for pointing this stuff out!!!!!!
1) they had a legal warrant based on solid (per current reporting) intel....
2) The police RETURNED FIRE people!!!! No Freakin brainer to me and probably to every one of you in the same instance.
3) Is a person innocent it they have knoweldge of criminal activity in their own home? We'll never know if she knew what was going on. Think she was scared of the police or other drug dealers/gang members coming after her loved one?
4) One last thing, THREE OFFICERS WERE HIT!!!!! Glad some people are concerned with the welfare of the lady sitting in a drug trap with a gun when people were injured doing their job enforcing the laws that were instilled in this democratic society. You don't like them? A) Run for office and change them or B) move to a happy place where pedophiles and drug lords can frolic in your business (ergo Michael jackson)!

Whatever you do, unless you were there DO NOT question the actions of these men/women who have to live with the outcome of this incident for the rest of their lives.

Very Tragic incident but enough said.

 

[dwarven1]

And the beat goes on...

Informant denies buying drugs at elderly Atlantan's home

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- An informant cited in a search warrant as having purchased narcotics at an elderly Atlanta woman's house denies buying drugs there, authorities say.

Undercover officers raiding the 88-year-old woman's house shot her to death last week after she fired on them while they broke down her door in a high-crime neighborhood.

Federal prosecutors will investigate the case, Atlanta police Chief Richard Pennington announced Monday. (Watch when the snitch says he got the call to concoct a drug-buy story Video)

Pennington said the eight-member narcotics squad that took part in the raid has been placed on paid leave while investigators look into the informant's story and the circumstances surrounding the November 21 death of Kathryn Johnston.

The informant also told investigators from the Atlanta police internal affairs bureau that he was told to lie about the matter, the chief said.

"The FBI will investigate his statements, along with the police officers' statements as well," Pennington said.

Authorities said Johnston opened fire on police who tried to enter her home, prying off burglar bars and forcing open her door, during a "no-knock" drug raid. Officers returned fire, killing her.

Relatives put Johnston's age at 92, but Fulton County medical examiners said she was 88.

Neighbors and relatives said the raid had to have been a mistake. They said Johnston lived alone and was so afraid of crime in her neighborhood west of downtown Atlanta that she wouldn't let neighbors who delivered groceries for her come into her home.
Atlanta police reviews 'no-knock' policy

In an affidavit used to obtain the search warrant, narcotics officers said an informant had purchased two bags of crack cocaine from a man identified only as "Sam" in the home earlier that day.

Pennington said he called in federal prosecutors and the FBI after internal affairs investigators questioned the informant during the weekend.

"After we brought the informant in and interviewed that informant, he told us that he had no knowledge of going into that house to purchase drugs," he said. "That's what he told us. I don't know if he went in or not. We don't know if he's telling the truth."

In an interview with Atlanta's WAGA-TV, the informant said he had never been to Johnston's house.

"I'm telling them, I never went to the house," the informant told the station. "The police can't say I ever went to the house."

The informant then said police called him and told him "you need to cover our ass."

"It's all on you -- have to tell them about this Sam dude," the informant said police told him.

Pennington said the man was being "put away in a secure place" until the FBI could question him. The chief also promised to make "every document, every witness and piece of evidence" available to investigators.

Meanwhile, the seven narcotics officers and a sergeant were put on administrative leave with pay, and the department is reviewing its use of "no-knock" raids after the shootout, he said. The warrants are common in narcotics cases when officers fear suspects may try to dispose of drugs or evidence in the time it takes authorities to gain access to the home.

In addition to the FBI and Justice Department, the Fulton County district attorney's office and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation are taking part in the probe.

Pennington made his reputation cleaning up a corrupt New Orleans, Louisiana, Police Department in the 1990s. He said the "intense speculation and suspicion" surrounding Johnston's death spurred him to call in outside agencies.

"There are many unanswered questions. I promise each and every citizen that the complete truth will be eventually known, whatever that might be," he said. "But we must all exercise patience while we examine and re-examine every single aspect of these tragic events."

A spokesman for Johnston's family, the Rev. Markel Hutchins, went to Washington to request a federal investigation Monday. Hutchins said he had received assurances that agents would conduct a "swift and thorough" investigation into the woman's death.

Hutchins said the three midlevel officials with whom he met also promised "all resources at our disposal" to help counter the fallout in the African-American community from the shooting. He said he urged Justice Department officials to press for strong federal guidance to local police departments against the use of no-knock warrants.

CNN's Terry Frieden contributed to this report.

 

[KMaurer]

If you're not breaking the law then you have nothing to worry about. The police make a mistake and nobody is hur then no harm no foul. They can raid my house whenever...I have absolutely NOTHING to hide!!!

You seem to be missing the central problem here. When somebody kicks your door in the middle of the night and runs in screaming "Police!", just how exactly are you supposed to know it's the police? In a lot of these cities that are big on no-knock warrants and dynamic entries, the local thugs doing home invasions have taken to yelling "Police!" as they kick your door. Since you know that there aren't any illegal guns, illegal drugs, illegal explosives, child pornography or similar items in your home that might justify a surprise visit from the police, you've got to wonder whether it's the police making another one of those innocent, harmless mistakes, or Snoop Bling and his Posse looking to have some fun and get rich at your expense.

Ken

 

[Ray P]

If you're not breaking the law then you have nothing to worry about. The police make a mistake and nobody is hur then no harm no foul.

Wow. Neat perspective. What's your philosophy on rape? "You'll hurt yourself more if you try to fight, so just lie down and enjoy it"?

 

[Jose]

On the other hand, as I've stated numerous times, if the police swarm your house and you try to defend your self/homestead (let's assume she didn't hear/know that it was the police), you will DIE in place!

You're assuming that you will always be better trained, armed, and motivated than the opponents you will face.

 

[Moga]

I noticed that this development was previously contributed by Dwarven1 only after I posted it. I think its interesting to see it in video even if the news is stale. It looks pretty damning when you view the newscasts one after the other, IMO.

-Moga

Any updates on the guilt/innocence or correctness of the address used in the raid?

Here is the Atlanta Police Chief talking to the public on the local news Monday night about the circumstances of the drug buy that precipitated the search warrant.

Next is an interview from the individual that the APD Chief refers to as the CRI in the former segment in which he directly contradicts the facts given by the APD brass. The news segment aired three days after the first.

The lowdown:

The "CI" that supposedly scored some crack-cocaine from an individual inside the house for the APD is in Federal protective custody after he revealed on the Atlanta local news yesterday that APD narcotics team contacted him AFTER they shot the lady, asking him to lie about buying drugs from the house in an attempt to construct a cover-up. He states that he was never at the house where the warrant was served nor had he purchased any drugs from a person associated with the home.

Also the grand-daughter of the victim stated in another reporting that only days before, there was a home invasion in the Greater Atlanta area involving the robbers masquerading as Fulton County Sheriff's Officers that was reported on the nightly news. She feels certain that her Grandmother's fear of such an incident happening was a crucial factor in her decision to open fire on the officers.

I would now like to know how the narcotics team got the warrant if their "CI" tip was all a fabrication. What rubber stamp judge issued the warrant anyway with so little information substantiating drug activity worthy of a bust, and how will this incident affect future no-knocks? Will there be any consequences for the APD offiers responsible for what amounts to lying to get their warrant?

I guess we'll have to wait and see. One things seems certain: this case is becoming a fiasco quickly. The feds are investigating, the community is in an uproar, and the APD is besieged with suspicion involving impropriety. Its turning ugly really quickly and doesn't seem to show any signs of blowing over.

 

[reinbeau]

And the beat goes on...Authorities said Johnston opened fire on police who tried to enter her home, prying off burglar bars and forcing open her door, during a "no-knock" drug raid. Officers returned fire, killing her.

Gee, do you think when they were prying off bars and breaking down doors they may have scared her a bit?

I'd read it was a high-crime area, and she had armed herself against home invasion, as the elderly had been preyed on in the area. I don't blame her a bit for firing. The blame rests solely on the invaders in this case.

You seem to be missing the central problem here. When somebody kicks your door in the middle of the night and runs in screaming "Police!", just how exactly are you supposed to know it's the police? In a lot of these cities that are big on no-knock warrants and dynamic entries, the local thugs doing home invasions have taken to yelling "Police!" as they kick your door. Since you know that there aren't any illegal guns, illegal drugs, illegal explosives, child pornography or similar items in your home that might justify a surprise visit from the police, you've got to wonder whether it's the police making another one of those innocent, harmless mistakes, or Snoop Bling and his Posse looking to have some fun and get rich at your expense.

Ken

Egg-zactly!

 

[adweisbe]

Rubber stamp judges will issue a warrant based on the testimony of a single officer. If the officer presents enough "evidence" fabricated or not the warrant is issued. If and when it goes to trial the fabricated warrant can be challenged if it can be proved the officer lied and the evidence thrown out. Meanwhile it allows them to "legally" force their way into people's homes and set them up for a plee bargain, harrassment, or slaughter. Not all too common but as we can see it has happened.

I don't see judges as the problem, they can't help if officers lie or fabricate evidence. They don't have the time and I am not necessarily sure it is their job. At trial if an officer is caught he should be prosecuted and that is where the system seems to break down as some officers seem comfortable doing this as SOP which means there is not enough effort at accountability.

In theory judges operate off a set of standards for what is required to issue a warrant, there should be little to no variation between judges for the majority of cases.

 

[Jose]

I hope the Atlanta PD gets its ass handed to them.

 

[dwarven1]

Well, Jose - sometimes you get what you wish for

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18328267/

2 plead guilty in Atlanta police shooting death
Manslaughter pleas come after 3 officers indicted for killing elderly woman
Updated: 2:58 p.m. ET April 26, 2007

ATLANTA - Two police officers pleaded guilty to manslaughter Thursday in the shooting death of a 92-year-old woman during a botched drug raid. A third officer was also indicted in the woman’s death.

Gregg Junnier, 40, who retired from the Atlanta police force in January, pleaded guilty to manslaughter, violation of oath, criminal solicitation and making false statements.

Officer J.R. Smith, 35, pleaded guilty to the same four charges and to perjury, which was based on making untrue claims in a warrant.
Story continues below ↓advertisement

In court, Smith said he regretted what happened.

“I’m sorry,” he said, his voice barely audible.

The state charges followed a Nov. 21 drug raid on the apartment of Kathryn Johnston, 92. An informant had described buying drugs from a dealer there, police said. When the officers burst in without warning, Johnston fired at them, and they fired back, killing her.

Junnier and Smith had been charged in an indictment unsealed earlier Thursday with felony murder, violation of oath by a public officer, criminal solicitation, burglary, aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and making false statements.

The third officer, Arthur Tesler, 40, was charged with violation of oath by a public officer, making false statements and false imprisonment under color of legal process. His attorney, William McKenney, said Tesler expects to go to trial.

Tesler is “very relieved” not to face murder charges, McKenney said, “but we’re concerned about the three charges.” He said Tesler had testified before the grand jury.

Tesler and Smith have both been on administrative leave from the force.

Federal charges expected
In Junnier’s case, prosecutors asked the judge to withhold sentencing until after a hearing later Thursday in federal court, where he was also expected to enter guilty pleas. Federal charges were expected against all three officers.

U.S. Attorney David Nahmias told The Associated Press the federal sentence for Junnier would be 10 years and one month in prison. The state and federal sentences were expected to be the same.

The deadly drug raid had been set up after narcotics officers said an informant had claimed there was cocaine in the home.

When the plainclothes officers burst in without notice, police say Johnston fired a handgun at the men, wounding three, and the officers returned fire. An autopsy report revealed Johnston was shot five or six times in the chest, arms, legs and feet. Initially, the medical examiner’s office said Johnston was 88, while her relatives insisted she was 92. Public officials now agree she was 92.

Questions about no-knock raids
The case raised serious questions about no-knock warrants and whether the officers followed proper procedures.

Atlanta Police Chief Richard Pennington asked the FBI to lead a multi-agency probe into the shootout. He also announced policy changes to require the department to drug-test its nearly 1,800 officers and mandate that top supervisors sign off on narcotics operations and no-knock warrants.

To get the warrant, officers told a magistrate judge that an undercover informant had told them Johnston’s home had surveillance cameras monitored carefully by a drug dealer named “Sam.”

After the shooting, a man claiming to be the informant told a television station that he never purchased drugs there, prompting Pennington to admit he was uncertain whether the suspected drug dealer actually existed.

The Rev. Markel Hutchins, a civil rights activist who serves as a spokesman for Johnston’s family, said the family was satisfied with Thursday’s developments. “They have never sought vengeance. They have only sought justice,” he said.

Hutchins said the family is considering civil action against the police department. “I think what happened today makes it very clear that Ms. Johnston was violated, that her civil rights were violated,” he said.

 

[noelephant]

Why do drugs need to be illegal? An entire industry has sprung up around the illegal drugs - from the drug gangs, importers, theft due to supporting a drug habits, privatized overfull prisons, and militarized police.

Would drug use actually go up or possibly down if it were legalized? The prohibition of alcohol didn't seem to work too well.

I certainly wouldn't go out and start taking drugs if it became legal - I don't even consume alcohol. I would do my best to discourage people from taking drugs.

However, throwing drug users in jail doesn't really seem like the best course of action. Drug dealing as it is now would disappear overnight as legitimate businesses were allowed to sell them.

I will concur that drugs are very detrimental to our society but the drug war seems like the worse alternative.

 

[Mikey]

Drugs should be legal.

No-knock raids should be ILLEGAL.

This is a scary b/c even though the chances are slim this could happen to any of us.

 

[dwarven1]

Yup, and very likely the NES poster AND a cop or two wouldn't survive the experience. It's dangerous to no-knock a gun-owner... whether or not he's doing anything illegal.

 

[Jose]

If you're not breaking the law then you have nothing to worry about.

How does the world look through rose colored glasses?

 

[Jose]

Why do drugs need to be illegal? An entire industry has sprung up around the illegal drugs - from the drug gangs, importers, theft due to supporting a drug habits, privatized overfull prisons, and militarized police.

Because we never learned the lesson from prohibition.

 

[Jose]

Boy howdy.

Now that it comes out that the cops in charge of this execution are a bunch of lying sacks of shit, our police boosters are strangely silent.

At least they didn't get away with it like that piece of shit Horiuchi. I hope someday someone finds him and gives him what he has coming.

 

[Jaxon]

Boy howdy.

Now that it comes out that the cops in charge of this execution are a bunch of lying sacks of shit, our police boosters are strangely silent.

What is there to say? They screwed up and they got busted for it. Its embarassing when cops do stupid things.. but then everyone expects them be be better, so its a longer fall.

 

[Jose]

I will tell you what I expect police agencies to do.

I expect police agencies to POLICE themselves to a much higher standard than they have been.

I expect lawmakers to tighten the screws on the requirements to trigger no-knock or violent entry warrants. And I also expect them to raise the standard necessary for judges to issue search warrants.

If it makes police's job harder, so be it. We, the law abiding, deserve it.

 

[Jaxon]

I will tell you what I expect police agencies to do.

I expect police agencies to POLICE themselves to a much higher standard than they have been.

I expect lawmakers to tighten the screws on the requirements to trigger no-knock or violent entry warrants. And I also expect them to raise the standard necessary for judges to issue search warrants.

If it makes police's job harder, so be it. We, the law abiding, deserve it.

Nothing wrong with that. But I expect people to be people. Its a vicious circle.