So it would seem that the jury is still out as to what's okay in MA as far as pins or not. One thing to consider is this......pins or screws, if something bad were to happen and lets say your AR got taken away, you would probably have a bigger problem than whether or not your stock was secured by pins or screws. Me personally, I like my Ace tactical stock........it's fixed, but a shorter length for us smaller guys and totally MA OK.
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AR15 Remove pins in collapsible stock ?
- Thread starter Harleynut
- Start date
The mags are yet another silly law. I do leave my favorite magpul mags in New Hampshire and bought some Pre Ban mags then rebuilt them with some MagPul parts to keep Assachusetts happy. I was able to find one preban 40 round mag and a bunch of 30's.
The sad thing is I don't think the people writing the laws really believe this will help keep us safer just trying to make it look like they are doing something to justify their existance.
I moved from Mass to NH several years ago to get away from this stuff but still have lots of Mass friends I shoot with. So to quote line from the God Father" Just when you think your out they drag ya back"
Yes, though I'd say based on the ATF letter, screws are very likely a no go. And based on the extremely common usage, pins are probably ok.
Old age or brain fart call it what you wish. I had responded to that late last night and found it on my computer now and thought oh I forgot to hit send so did it then. I must have hit the back button when setting the laptop down so it looked like it was never sent off.
Give me 40 lashes and make me move back to Massachusetts.
You know, there is no call to be rude. I was simply asking for clarification since you seemed to be in possession of information that would be beneficial to all of us. But rather than being helpful, you choose to be standoffish.
If that's the way you want to be, so be it. But why waste your time with these forums if you are not going to contribute something to the greater good? We all use these forums for the sharing of information and discussion that will benefit us gun people. It's not enough to say "No, you can't do this or that" and then offer no explanation or cite specific regulations.
Big time +1
Pretty sure Sigfan did not demand the info but simply asked you to supply the link. Since you feel the need to play keyboard lawyer waving your "no-no" finger it would be nice if you backed up your one word statements of "Wrong". I guess we should just look at your post count and assume you know everything.
This is a demand. Despite the sarcastic wording. And I don't feel the need to help him out. My initial answer was intended for the OP and the person who responded before me erroneously guiding him towards a course of action that would likely violate the law.
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All the crap about pins etc in MA is why I've got an ACE stock on my Stag. Not worth the grief and a neutered collapsable stock's just kinda weird IMO. I've seen carbine style AR's with A2 stocks as well - at least you get the benefit of carrying your cleaning gear in the buttstock.
"Can you send me the actual link for this? I was just all over the BATF's website and couldn't find any reference to this. Sorry to be a pain in the backside, but I feel that it's important to fully research this 
Thanks!"
This was my first request for the information that you claimed you had on this subject. This was a friendly request, not a demand. You replied with:
"It's a moot point for you because you cannot own an AR in Boston."
To me, this is a total rude brushoff. If you couldn't find the information why didn't you simply say so? This is about the time I realized you were just wasting everyone's time with your own BS and at that point, yes, I got a bit testy. But I think everyone is now aware of this fact. And you called me lazy?? I'm the one who tore apart the BATF website trying to find that information. If you had the info on hand, why not share with the group? Or do you simply like spouting off and being insulting to everyone on this forum??
Thanks!"This was my first request for the information that you claimed you had on this subject. This was a friendly request, not a demand. You replied with:
"It's a moot point for you because you cannot own an AR in Boston."
To me, this is a total rude brushoff. If you couldn't find the information why didn't you simply say so? This is about the time I realized you were just wasting everyone's time with your own BS and at that point, yes, I got a bit testy. But I think everyone is now aware of this fact. And you called me lazy?? I'm the one who tore apart the BATF website trying to find that information. If you had the info on hand, why not share with the group? Or do you simply like spouting off and being insulting to everyone on this forum??
This place is for people to be helpful and assist fellow gun owners with questions. If you can't be helpful then don't reply to threads for the sake of replying to them. And to whomever neg reped you for your post please PM me your name so i can give you a +1.
![[angry]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/008.gif "Angry [angry]")
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
Pefect solution...Buy a second rifle![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Funny you said that I just ordered a Rock River Varment with a 20 inch bull barrel but it will be a long time getting here.
You better be real careful my wife is really pissed at you now. I told her you made me do it.
![[laugh2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/014.gif "Laugh at above [laugh2]")
Funny you said that I just ordered a Rock River Varment with a 20 inch bull barrel but it will be a long time getting here.
You better be real careful my wife is really pissed at you now. I told her you made me do it.
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
I find myself having that same problem every now and then. Must run in the family.
dcmdon
NES Member
"Can you send me the actual link for this? I was just all over the BATF's website and couldn't find any reference to this. Sorry to be a pain in the backside, but I feel that it's important to fully research this
This was my first request for the information that you claimed you had on this subject. This was a friendly request, not a demand. You replied with:
"It's a moot point for you because you cannot own an AR in Boston."
To me, this is a total rude brushoff. If you couldn't find the information why didn't you simply say so? This is about the time I realized you were just wasting everyone's time with your own BS and at that point, yes, I got a bit testy. But I think everyone is now aware of this fact. And you called me lazy?? I'm the one who tore apart the BATF website trying to find that information. If you had the info on hand, why not share with the group? Or do you simply like spouting off and being insulting to everyone on this forum??
Thats what it sounded like to me.
Holy thread resurrection.
What's the problem? He added a lot to the discussion! Just like you did! And just like I am doing now! :-D
[New member, 1st post]
I see some people stating that a collapsible stock just needs to require tools to adjust to be legal. It has always been my understanding that the pinning job must be a permanent installation and that the pins cannot be removed with common tools. This would mean that you couldn't adjust it with wrenches, hammer, screw drivers, etc. It must be blind-pinned and epoxied, etc. Same as flash suppressors under ATF rulings, must be blind-pinned and welded OR must be silver-soldered @ 1200F so that a common armorer's tool cannot remove it.
If I were to pin a collapsible stock, I'd drill through the stock behind the adjuster and also through the rib on the bottom of the aluminum receiver extension. Then I'd tap it for a set screw and run in the screw below flush THEN Epoxy over it all and sand smooth.
Just my $0.02. If you disagree, I'll gladly accept a refund. Cash only.
I see some people stating that a collapsible stock just needs to require tools to adjust to be legal. It has always been my understanding that the pinning job must be a permanent installation and that the pins cannot be removed with common tools. This would mean that you couldn't adjust it with wrenches, hammer, screw drivers, etc. It must be blind-pinned and epoxied, etc. Same as flash suppressors under ATF rulings, must be blind-pinned and welded OR must be silver-soldered @ 1200F so that a common armorer's tool cannot remove it.
If I were to pin a collapsible stock, I'd drill through the stock behind the adjuster and also through the rib on the bottom of the aluminum receiver extension. Then I'd tap it for a set screw and run in the screw below flush THEN Epoxy over it all and sand smooth.
Just my $0.02. If you disagree, I'll gladly accept a refund. Cash only.
I tend to agree, however it's never been tested in a MA court and the AG doesn't issue opinions on the matter. So it's all a bit fuzzy as to whether ATF rulings apply, and what is or isn't considered 'permanent'.
(And welcome to the forum!)
dcmdon
NES Member
I don't buy that. By that logic, the fact that you can entirely remove the stock from an AR15 with 2 screws would make any AR illegal since its stock is not "permanently" attached.
As you have said, nobody has ruled on this. So if there is no interpretation, and it is not explicitly forbidden by law, then it is legal.
This is one (marginally) grey area I'd be very willing to wade into if I even liked retractible stocks. Shortly after the CT AWB I simply made a small wedge
of aluminum and held it in place with an allen set screw. This prevented me from squeezing the release to collapse the stock. I felt very comfortable
with my "adjustable" stock.
For what its worth. I have a non collapsible stock on my pre-ban gun. Just because I prefer them.
As you have said, nobody has ruled on this. So if there is no interpretation, and it is not explicitly forbidden by law, then it is legal.
This is one (marginally) grey area I'd be very willing to wade into if I even liked retractible stocks. Shortly after the CT AWB I simply made a small wedge
of aluminum and held it in place with an allen set screw. This prevented me from squeezing the release to collapse the stock. I felt very comfortable
with my "adjustable" stock.
For what its worth. I have a non collapsible stock on my pre-ban gun. Just because I prefer them.
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FWIW I have a 'compliant' AR from Smith & Wesson. The stock is pinned. The hole they drilled does not pass through . In other words you can't simply punch the pin through and out the other side. You would most likely have to drill it out. I would consider that a permanent fix.
when I built my NES AR I pinned it in the same fashion.
ETA If I were standing in front of a judge, who in all probability is not mechanically inclined, I would not want to be using the word epoxy or screwdriver to explain my 'permanent' stock.
when I built my NES AR I pinned it in the same fashion.
ETA If I were standing in front of a judge, who in all probability is not mechanically inclined, I would not want to be using the word epoxy or screwdriver to explain my 'permanent' stock.
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dcmdon
NES Member
Where does the law say "permanent"?
The CT ban says simply:
(A) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:
i. a folding or telescopic stock;
ii. a pistol grip;
iii. a bayonet mount;
iv. a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and
v. a grenade launcher.
The CT ban says simply:
(A) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:
i. a folding or telescopic stock;
ii. a pistol grip;
iii. a bayonet mount;
iv. a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and
v. a grenade launcher.
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Right. And in most cases we are taking a telescoping stock and modifying it so that it can no longer function as such. Remember it's an adjustable stock that you are claiming you have converted to fixed. It's a gray area I don't want to play with.
Removing those two screws does not make the stock 'folding or telescoping', so your example doesn't apply.
dcmdon said:
The problem with no interpretation is that when you get to court, you're going to be held to what a 'reasonable person' would agree is 'folding or telescoping'. There is plenty of case law which shows that statutory wording not specifically defined is subject to 'general meaning'. So, lets hope the jury you get likes gun owners, because otherwise I think most non-gun people would say that a telescoping stock that simply has an easily removable pin that temporarily stops it from telescoping is still a telescoping stock.
