.44 mag case expansion

[jrbtzx12r]

Hi All, I went to the range tonight to test some reloads in .44 rem mag and had some weird results. The gun is a Taurus 2-440089 (8 3/8 barrel), brass was a mix of Frontier and something with stars on it (the cases were given to me), powder was Titegroup or H110, primers were CCI large magnum primers, and bullets were Hornandy 300gr XTP.

Reloads
5 loaded with Titegroup 8.6gr 1.602 O.L.
5 loaded with Titegroup 9.5gr 1.602 O.L.
5 loaded with H110 18gr 1.602 O.L.
5 loaded with H110 18.5gr 1.602 O.L.
5 loaded with H110 18.9gr 1.602 O.L.

All loads fired with H110 fell out of the cylinder without any issue.

When I shot any of the reloads with Titegroup I had what I would call case expansion. It was to the point where I had to manually extract each case from the cylinder with the 8.6gr. After I fired the 9.5gr loads I had to punch each case out of the cylinder to remove them. After removing the cases they didn't appear damaged, and the primers looked fine.

Has anyone seen this happen with Titegroup? Any suggestions when using this powder, or should I just stick with the H110?

Thanks

 

[center442]

Hi All, I went to the range tonight to test some reloads in .44 rem mag and had some weird results. The gun is a Taurus 2-440089 (8 3/8 barrel), brass was a mix of Frontier and something with stars on it (the cases were given to me), powder was Titegroup or H110, primers were CCI large magnum primers, and bullets were Hornandy 300gr XTP.

Reloads
5 loaded with Titegroup 8.6gr 1.602 O.L.
5 loaded with Titegroup 9.5gr 1.602 O.L.
5 loaded with H110 18gr 1.602 O.L.
5 loaded with H110 18.5gr 1.602 O.L.
5 loaded with H110 18.9gr 1.602 O.L.

All loads fired with H110 fell out of the cylinder without any issue.

When I shot any of the reloads with Titegroup I had what I would call case expansion. It was to the point where I had to manually extract each case from the cylinder with the 8.6gr. After I fired the 9.5gr loads I had to punch each case out of the cylinder to remove them. After removing the cases they didn't appear damaged, and the primers looked fine.

Has anyone seen this happen with Titegroup? Any suggestions when using this powder, or should I just stick with the H110?

Thanks

I just did a quick check of one reloading manual. Your 9.5gr load of Titegroup is close to maximum; they listed 9.6gr as a max load with that bullet. The other Titegroup load was well within safe range.

I noticed you had two different types of brass. Were the Titegroup loads all from one type of brass or was it mixed?

 

[EddieCoyle]

The brass with the stars is Starline - about the best pistol brass going. Really.

Titegroup is a much faster burning powder than H110, and pressure spikes much faster. It's possible that the Titegroup-loaded rounds achieved a higher pressure (but much lower velocity) than the ones loaded with H110 - even though (I assume) the recoil was lighter.

I load both powders in my .500 but I haven't noticed a difference in extraction. Maybe that's because I stay at 14 grians of Titegroup which is way below the maximum.

 

[jrbtzx12r]

I just did a quick check of one reloading manual. Your 9.5gr load of Titegroup is close to maximum; they listed 9.6gr as a max load with that bullet. The other Titegroup load was well within safe range.

I noticed you had two different types of brass. Were the Titegroup loads all from one type of brass or was it mixed?

Yes the 9.5gr load was close to max. As with most loads I like to test the low and the high. In this case the higher grain loads were much more accurate.

I just did a check of the brass from yesterday, and all loads used both types of brass. So I can't blame an individual brass type.

The brass with the stars is Starline - about the best pistol brass going. Really.

Titegroup is a much faster burning powder than H110, and pressure spikes much faster. It's possible that the Titegroup-loaded rounds achieved a higher pressure (but much lower velocity) than the ones loaded with H110 - even though (I assume) the recoil was lighter.

I load both powders in my .500 but I haven't noticed a difference in extraction. Maybe that's because I stay at 14 grains of Titegroup which is way below the maximum.

Well that's good to know about the Starline brass . Yep the H110 rounds had more of a kick to it, and the rounds appeared to be more accurate.

I just thought it was very weird that the Titegroup powder caused such an issue, and across such a large difference in the amount of powder used. I guess I'll keep the Titegroup powder for my .357 loads, and keep it away from the .44 loads .

Thanks

 

[center442]

Yes the 9.5gr load was close to max. As with most loads I like to test the low and the high. In this case the higher grain loads were much more accurate.

I just did a check of the brass from yesterday, and all loads used both types of brass. So I can't blame an individual brass type.



Well that's good to know about the Starline brass . Yep the H110 rounds had more of a kick to it, and the rounds appeared to be more accurate.

I just thought it was very weird that the Titegroup powder caused such an issue, and across such a large difference in the amount of powder used. I guess I'll keep the Titegroup powder for my .357 loads, and keep it away from the .44 loads .

Thanks

That is what I would do. Some guns just don't work well with certain powders. Even though your primers don't show any flattening or cratering, primers aren't always a reliable indicator of high pressure. My .44 Mag loads have usually been with lead bullets using 2400 and 4227. I would take the difficult extraction as a little warning sign that something is amiss.

Curious as to why the Magnum primers. My loads over the last 30 years for this caliber all used large pistol primers. Were the magnum primers called for in the Titegroup loads?

 

[EddieCoyle]

Titegroup doesn't need magnum primers. That powder works well for light loads in big cases because it's not position-sensitive (in other words, it doesn't matter if the small charge is laying on the bottom of the case, back against the case head, or against the bullet - the velocity will be about the same). This is the reason why it is so often shown as a suitable powder for magnum calibers. However, if you look at the velocities shown, Titegroup's is always much lower than those for H110, W296, Lil' Gun, 2400, AA9, or the other "magnum" powders.

Titegroup burns way too fast to get full power out of a magnum.

 

[Gammon]

Hi All, I went to the range tonight to test some reloads in .44 rem mag and had some weird results. The gun is a Taurus 2-440089 (8 3/8 barrel), brass was a mix of Frontier and something with stars on it (the cases were given to me), powder was Titegroup or H110, primers were CCI large magnum primers, and bullets were Hornandy 300gr XTP.

Reloads
5 loaded with Titegroup 8.6gr 1.602 O.L.
5 loaded with Titegroup 9.5gr 1.602 O.L.
5 loaded with H110 18gr 1.602 O.L.
5 loaded with H110 18.5gr 1.602 O.L.
5 loaded with H110 18.9gr 1.602 O.L.

All loads fired with H110 fell out of the cylinder without any issue.

When I shot any of the reloads with Titegroup I had what I would call case expansion. It was to the point where I had to manually extract each case from the cylinder with the 8.6gr. After I fired the 9.5gr loads I had to punch each case out of the cylinder to remove them. After removing the cases they didn't appear damaged, and the primers looked fine.

Has anyone seen this happen with Titegroup? Any suggestions when using this powder, or should I just stick with the H110?

Thanks

Difficult extraction is a sure sign of excessive pressure.

 

[jrbtzx12r]

That is what I would do. Some guns just don't work well with certain powders. Even though your primers don't show any flattening or cratering, primers aren't always a reliable indicator of high pressure. My .44 Mag loads have usually been with lead bullets using 2400 and 4227. I would take the difficult extraction as a little warning sign that something is amiss.

Curious as to why the Magnum primers. My loads over the last 30 years for this caliber all used large pistol primers. Were the magnum primers called for in the Titegroup loads?

Titegroup doesn't need magnum primers. That powder works well for light loads in big cases because it's not position-sensitive (in other words, it doesn't matter if the small charge is laying on the bottom of the case, back against the case head, or against the bullet - the velocity will be about the same). This is the reason why it is so often shown as a suitable powder for magnum calibers. However, if you look at the velocities shown, Titegroup's is always much lower than those for H110, W296, Lil' Gun, 2400, AA9, or the other "magnum" powders.

Titegroup burns way too fast to get full power out of a magnum.

Well reading thru some of my reloading manuals pretty much puts this one to bed. As both of you said, large pistol primers are enough. I think the magnum primers and Titegroup are a BAD mixture. I'll mix up a couple with regular primers and see if I get the same result. Thanks a bunch guys!