.380 was made great again (.380 Intercepter Taofledermaus)

[namedpipes]

380 - why?

 

[whacko]

Point of order:

.380 was never great.

 

[Animal357]

Newsflash: 380 was never great, is not great now. Never will be. Nothing a 9mm can't do better.

 

[whacko]

Let me guess, he supports gun control and his opinion means more since he’s a “veteran”

I've met more "veterans" in this category than I care to admit. Imo there is no lower form of scum on earth than a former support soldier that droles on and on about how only people with their level if training should be able to handle an "assault rifle" these f*** sticks have never fired anything but the m16 or m4 they were issued.

They are out there.....even in my VFW post..... I tell them the same thing every time.....sorry .....your 160 rounds a year doesn't make you any kind of expert.......I know plenty of people (including myself) that shoot 3 to 5 times a WEEK and 160 rounds is fired before they pack their first dip.

 

[Dench]

It won’t penetrate deep enough to hit vitals.

380 needs an FMJ, low-expanding JHP, or a Lehigh fluted solid copper.

Edit: scanned through the video. 8.25” of penetration confirms my hypothesis. On pistols, the diameter of an expanded JHP is far less important than adequate penetration. Some are even leaning to being higher than FBI spec is desired due to what has been observed in people.

8.25 inches of penetration isn't enough to hit something vital? Am i misunderstanding?

 

[Dench]

That's cool that it works for you but imo even a 43 is too big for a lot of people for that application.

I pocket carry my G43. It's basically around the same size as my phone I suppose. Hasn't been too much of a hassle.

 

[jkelly1229]

That's cool that it works for you but imo even a 43 is too big for a lot of people for that application.

Pm9 homie or jncos

 

[whacko]

8.25 inches of penetration isn't enough to hit something vital? Am i misunderstanding?

8.25 inches of penatration into gel does not equate to 8.25 inches into a human beings center of mass. The gel is a test media of which the fbi recommends 12 to 18 inches of penatration to be considered an adequate load for penatration into a human threat to be lethal. 8.25 in into calibrated gel is way light of the fbi requirements.

 

[blindndead]

My girlfriend has 2 guns a victory .22 and her EZ shield performance center in .380 she is still a little timid but getting better ever range trip. She has fired all my 9mm and she is not there yet.
Not saying only girls should only shoot .380 if this is the point you are at with firearms so be it. When I bring my .357 to the range I cant even get her to try it. I believe once she masters her two pistols she will venture off into bigger calibers. Or not, only you know your comfort level I will not be pulling anybody's man card today as long as you can shoot strait. I would love to play with some

Intercepter Taofledermaus!!!!​

 

[PappyM3]

8.25 inches of penetration isn't enough to hit something vital? Am i misunderstanding?

8.25” of gel. The gel is a repeatable medium to test the fluid dynamics of the bullet design. But it is not synonymous with human bodies.

Add in real world factors and then maybe you will, maybe you won’t. That 8.25” of penetration very well may not penetrate if it hits a rib. Or, if your threat is turned and you have a side target, shooting through an arm.

The bullet does, of course, have the ability to reach the vitals in a number of situations. But outside of perfect situations, the reliability of it penetrating enough is greatly reduced.

I’ll say again that 380 is a perfectly adequate carry cartridge. You just need to stick with FMJ, low expanding JHP, or fluted copper solids.

 

[CMEBoston]

.380 was never great, it’s better than nothing, has its merits and uses but it was never great.
If I carried .380 I’d probably consider FMJs

 

[T-Unit]

In a medium size pistol, relative to smaller calibers, the .380 is great. In a pocket size pistol I'm not so sure the .380 is better than even .22 for the reasons that someone will be able to shoot the .22 better given they will shoot it more and it has less recoil.

 

[Animal357]

In a medium size pistol, relative to smaller calibers, the .380 is great.

NO

 

[PappyM3]

In a medium size pistol, relative to smaller calibers, the .380 is great. In a pocket size pistol I'm not so sure the .380 is better than even .22 for the reasons that someone will be able to shoot the .22 better given they will shoot it more and it has less recoil.

It’s better than .22 purely due to the fact that it’s centerfire vs rimfire, and thus has a more reliable ignition mechanism.

 

[T-Unit]

It’s better than .22 purely due to the fact that it’s centerfire vs rimfire, and thus has a more reliable ignition mechanism.

That's the only thing that may make it better, but for some .22 will still be better for them.

 

[T-Unit]

NO

You think .380 is not better than .25 or .32 in a medium sized pistol?

 

[PappyM3]

That's the only thing that may make it better, but for some .22 will still be better for them.

Well, I mean, it’s not the only thing. They each have pros and cons.

I was just trying to say it’s the biggest factor and makes 22 a non-starter for many.

 

[67ray]

I’ll say again that 380 is a perfectly adequate carry cartridge. You just need to stick with FMJ, low expanding JHP, or fluted copper solids.

Maybe, but compared to 9mm it is inadequate.

Whatever 380 can do then 9 can do better. It will forever be the red haired step sister only getting inivited to the dance when the others are already taken

 

[T-Unit]

Maybe, but compared to 9mm it is inadequate.

Whatever 380 can do then 9 can do better. It will forever be the red haired step sister only getting inivited to the dance when the others are already taken

9mm can only do it better by being bigger in size. When it's a "fun size" themed dance, the .380 fits the bill while the BBW 9mm has to stay at home with her cats and a tub of ice cream.

 

[PappyM3]

Maybe, but compared to 9mm it is inadequate.

That’s not how to use the term inadequate. It’s either adequate for the task or it’s not.

..
Whatever 380 can do then 9 can do better. It will forever be the red haired step sister only getting inivited to the dance when the others are already taken

Plenty of people have said the same about 45 ACP vs 9mm Luger

 

[Qwikdraw45]

I have been using the ARX in the wife's G42 carry gun and I have a G42 I carry jogging or doing any type of activity that I can’t carry a 9 or 45 easily. They seem to have pretty good penetration they leave a three prong hole in ballistic gel and seem to function reliably.

I'm surprised. That was the only time that I've had a Glock fail to feed (except for defective/damaged ammo). The ARX in a G42. I was both surprised and disappointed. Got rid of the ARX after that.

 

[Animal357]

You think .380 is not better than .25 or .32 in a medium sized pistol?

No. They are all useless when it comes to stopping power

45,40 and 9 are pathetic when it comes to the ability to destroy enough of the body to stop locomotion. Smaller than those are just a joke

 

[PappyM3]

No. They are all useless when it comes to stopping power

45,40 and 9 are pathetic when it comes to the ability to destroy enough of the body to stop locomotion. Smaller than those are just a joke

All pistol cartridges suck at stopping threats. But a .25 or .32 are better than nothing.

 

[Yotacrawler]

I'm surprised. That was the only time that I've had a Glock fail to feed (except for know, defective/damaged ammo). The ARX in a G42. I was both surprised and disappointed. Got rid of the ARX after that.

I’m surprised I've put quite a few boxes through both of ours.

 

[Animal357]

All pistol cartridges suck at stopping threats. But a .25 or .32 are better than nothing.

Having a 25 or 32 will make you want to stay and fight when any other action is better

 

[Qwikdraw45]

No. They are all useless when it comes to stopping power

45,40 and 9 are pathetic when it comes to the ability to destroy enough of the body to stop locomotion. Smaller than those are just a joke

User name checks out!

 

[67ray]

Plenty of people have said the same about 45 ACP vs 9mm Luger

Except this isn't about 45

Pappy M3 carries a 380!!!

 

[PappyM3]

Except this isn't about 45

Pappy M3 carries a 380!!!

View attachment 878490

Weird insult, but okay.





I’d still be perfectly comfortable carrying a pocket 380. And likewise I would be comfortable recommending a locking block 380 for someone with less grip strength.

Of course 9mm has advantages. But that doesn’t make 380 inadequate.

 

[Animal357]

Weird insult, but okay.

View attachment 878516
View attachment 878517
View attachment 878518

I’d still be perfectly comfortable carrying a pocket 380. And likewise I would be comfortable recommending a locking block 380 for someone with less grip strength.

Of course 9mm has advantages. But that doesn’t make 380 inadequate.

Yes, yes it does

Actually, you are correct. The advantages of 9mm is not what 380 inadequate, 380’s gross under performance is what makes it inadequate.

 

[kalash]

Lucky Gunner summed it up nicely, imo:

As expected, .380 ACP turned in the weakest overall performance of the four calibers we tested, but a few loads fared surprisingly well. Most loads showed either good penetration but no expansion, or decent expansion with sub-par penetration. Only a couple of loads managed to show decent numbers for both. There’s a reason that .380 ACP is often considered “underpowered”, but careful ammo selection can help to mitigate its deficiencies to some degree.

I'd rather pocket carry a 9mm or even a 5-shot .38