Taking non-US residents to the range

[Mustang5L5]

I've got a number of coworkers that work in other offices around the globe. I've had a working relationship with some for close to a decade, and once in a while we have some small talk about gun laws in our various countries.

Anyway, they often come to the US for business, and I'm wondering if MA/US has any stupid laws preventing me from making a range trip with them? Just want to make sure before I offer. I know a handful of them would love the opportunity to fire a firearm.


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[one-eyed Jack]

If you have full auto stuff, don't let them shoot those if there are Fudds watching. Jack.

 

[76Too]

hell no...this is America! load up some mags and let 'em go back to their homelands with some freedom in their hearts and a moto-boner in their pants!

they can be all like 'pew! pew!' and shit!

 

[Len-2A Training]

Not claiming expertise on this, but I recall reading something Federally which prohibits anyone not a US Resident (OK if non-citizen) from handling/shooting guns. I know that WA had a law against it too (there was a shitstorm over some Brits posting pics in another forum some years ago), I've never seen any such law specific to MA however.

That said, it's done all the time and nobody gets in trouble unless they post stuff on social media about it.

 

[RG Sports]

The way MA caters to foreigners it's hard to imagine them throwing the book at them. If they do, use it as a tool to help foreigners say fu to MA.

 

[IPSC_DRL]

I did this all the time with folks traveling in to MA for training with my company. The folks from Japan were especially excited to be able to fire a real gun.

 

[76Too]

Not claiming expertise on this, but I recall reading something Federally which prohibits anyone not a US Resident (OK if non-citizen) from handling/shooting guns. I know that WA had a law against it too (there was a shitstorm over some Brits posting pics in another forum some years ago), I've never seen any such law specific to MA however.

That said, it's done all the time and nobody gets in trouble unless they post stuff on social media about it.

this is news to me, but i guess my experience is with guys that have shot/handled firearms under the umbrella of military training and didn't achieve citizenship until almost a year of being enlisted. i guess it makes sense that if there were exceptions to the rule it would be for government entities.

Len knows more about this stuff than anyone else here...so I suggest digging deeper and trying to find out what the ACTUAL answer is before you get in trouble over wanting to show some people how to 'freedom.'

 

[greencobra]

That said, it's done all the time and nobody gets in trouble unless they post stuff on social media about it.

this ^....and seriously, have any of you been asked to produce "papers" while at the range?

 

[Penniepup1]

Just tell them they are your cousins and all will be well.

 

[76Too]

The way MA caters to foreigners it's hard to imagine them throwing the book at them. If they do, use it as a tool to help foreigners say fu to MA.

unfortunately, any recourse would rest solely on the OP.

 

[Len-2A Training]

this is news to me, but i guess my experience is with guys that have shot/handled firearms under the umbrella of military training and didn't achieve citizenship until almost a year of being enlisted. i guess it makes sense that if there were exceptions to the rule it would be for government entities.

Len knows more about this stuff than anyone else here...so I suggest digging deeper and trying to find out what the ACTUAL answer is before you get in trouble over wanting to show some people how to 'freedom.'

I just shot off an Email to a BATFE contact that I have for clarification.

this is news to me, but i guess my experience is with guys that have shot/handled firearms under the umbrella of military training and didn't achieve citizenship until almost a year of being enlisted. i guess it makes sense that if there were exceptions to the rule it would be for government entities.

Len knows more about this stuff than anyone else here...so I suggest digging deeper and trying to find out what the ACTUAL answer is before you get in trouble over wanting to show some people how to 'freedom.'

Military training with so-called "allies" would be strictly under whatever laws/rules the military sets up (Sec. of Defense?) and BATFE or MA AG would have no say in the matter.

this ^....and seriously, have any of you been asked to produce "papers" while at the range?

There are tons of Mass gun owners who are hiding their AKs and ARs for fear that Healey will swoop down on her broom at the range and arrest them. Seriously!!

 

[Mustang5L5]

Thanks everyone. Just as I thought. My range is quiet during the normal work day, so if we made a trip during the week we'd be likely alone.

Just doing my homework to see if I missed something


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[dcmdon]

this ^....and seriously, have any of you been asked to produce "papers" while at the range?

This.

I've been shooting for roughly 35 years, many of which included firearms that are a bit esoteric, including SBR'd ARs and AKs and machine guns, including belt fed.

I've never even been approached by anyone claiming to be LE. Well, at least not in a professional capacity. A guy at Mass Rifle gave me the puppy dog eyes when I was shooting a M4 one day. I offered to let him shoot it BYOA (bring your own ammo). He was giddy. We walked out together and he got into a State Police cruiser. We were just two gun nuts playing at the range.

I have had idiot know-it-alls tell me my gun was illegal. But that was only in MA over the last 5 years. Never in CT. These are usually the ignorant guys who put trigger locks on their guns for transport.

 

[Dip Dungles]

this ^....and seriously, have any of you been asked to produce "papers" while at the range?

If anyone did just tell them to EABOD's. I've gotten spoken to about my 30 rounders and I politely told them to pound sand.

I received a call from the Pres over that and he easily sided with me.

Can't wait to get my SBR just for situations like already mentioned.

 

[fishgutzy]

The ATF pages is actually pretty help in this regard.
An immigrant here on a visa of any type, may not purchase or possess a firearm or ammunition.
However, non-citizens that can travel to the US without a visa, or has a green card, can. So colleagues from the UK for instance, can be taken to the range without trouble. If I take my Chinese colleagues to the range, and ATF just happens to show up, there would be consequences. But not exactly one of their priority enforcement issues.

 

[MAJoe]

The ATF pages is actually pretty help in this regard.
An immigrant here on a visa of any type, may not purchase or possess a firearm or ammunition.
However, non-citizens that can travel to the US without a visa, or has a green card, can. So colleagues from the UK for instance, can be taken to the range without trouble. If I take my Chinese colleagues to the range, and ATF just happens to show up, there would be consequences. But not exactly one of their priority enforcement issues.

Here's the ATF page BTW for those wondering:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may...dmitted-united-states-under-nonimmigrant-visa

Visa Waiver appears okay per question 5 (ESTA):
https://www.atf.gov/file/61841/download

 

[whacko]

I did this all the time with folks traveling in to MA for training with my company. The folks from Japan were especially excited to be able to fire a real gun.

I can certainly see some Japanese tourists taking a liking to shooting! I was traveling a couple years ago and stopped in the cabelal in PA. There was a whole family of Japanese folks fondling the used guns in the rack.....taking pictures with them.......I think the men all had boners!

 

[browncoat]

There are ranges in Hawaii that do a brisk business of letting Japanese tourists shoot guns for steep prices. I'm wondering if they are under a visa waiver or if the possession is allowed under supervision.


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[42!]

Years ago I went to an indoor range in CA, it was a dump but it was packed with Japanese tourists. Apparently it's a thing. Go to the US and you have to try shooting a real gun.

More recently I've seen a number of foreign visitors shooting at Granite State (always as someone's guest).

So it would appear to be a pretty common occurrence.

 

[Ultrarunner]

Well seeing as though it's not illegal to be illegal, there is a third gender, and guns are bad, it would naturally make sense that you must come to a complete stop at a stop sign.

I'm so confused.


In all seriousness BATFE out of Helena is okay with this. You can even sell them guns.

 

[browncoat]

Well seeing as though it's not illegal to be illegal, there is a third gender, and guns are bad, it would naturally make sense that you must come to a complete stop at a stop sign.

I'm so confused.


In all seriousness BATFE out of Helena is okay with this. You can even sell them guns.

Long guns only, or handguns too?


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[Ultrarunner]

Long guns only, or handguns too?


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Depends if their domicile is in the state in which your FFL conducts business.

 

[Billsail]

Took some Aussies to the range to help them rekindle their memories of a bygone era. Bittersweet. [sad2]

 

[Wendell]

The ATF pages is actually pretty help in this regard. An immigrant here on a visa of any type, may not purchase or possess a firearm or ammunition...

Unless they meet an exception to the general prohibition, such as a state-issued hunting license, or an invitation to a match; the OP could arrange for (either) one or the other.

That's the federal law.

What about Massachusetts?

However, non-citizens that can travel to the US without a visa, or has a green card, can. So colleagues from the UK for instance, can be taken to the range without trouble...

That's the federal law.

What about Massachusetts?

 

[milktree]

Unless they meet an exception to the general prohibition, such as a state-issued hunting license, or an invitation to a match; the OP could arrange for (either) one or the other.

That's the federal law.

What about Massachusetts?



That's the federal law.

What about Massachusetts?

Massachusetts is (I believe) silent on it. Massachusetts cares about people with a state issued licence, and those without. There's nothing about citizenship.