.308 at 1700 yards

[TheRoland]

Horus reticle are busy when you look at the reticle as a whole. When you get behind the scope on a target all the markings seem to disappear and it is very easy to concentrate on the correct marking and your target. I hated the reticle until I actually used it. I love it now and would never go back.

Reticules are very much personal preference, so there's absolutely no way I'd ever convince you otherwise. I might just draw attention to the fact that you've just taken a class with a very experienced and charismatic instructor telling you all about it.

Wind is incredible easy. The TReMoR II reticle has wind markings that relate to 3,4, or 5 mph depending on your bullets verity and BC (caliber mostly) If your dot is 4mph and you have a 12mph wind, hold 3 dots. 14 mph, hold 3.5 dots. No needed to calculate hold values.

Calculating hold values usually isn't really the problem vs. calling the wind, but it's a neat feature. Some less-spreadsheet reticules do this, too.

Todd told me horror stories about mechanical errors in expensive scopes, much higher than $1600. I think it was a $5000 Zeiss that he said was his worst. When error occur, most often, when you dial large amounts you don't get what you dialed. Ex. Dial 10mils and get 10.8. Another scope you may get 9.2. That's very important at long distances. The worst errors are inconsistent mechanics.

That's pretty horrifying, and I'm not sure what to say about that.


EDIT: Sorry to derail; sounds like an awesome time.

 

[Davidk]

Yes, I just did take a class withe the reticle's designer, but it was using it that convinced me of its value. My only point is that you can't judge it by looking at it, you have to use in in the field.

Yes, calling the wind is the difficult part, it is the real art of long distance shooting. My point was that the holds are much faster than dialing turrets. I was shooting while every shooter who dialed was still doing the math.

The scope stories were scary. He had bad experiences with some very big $ names. Surprisingly , he highly recomends the Bushnells, but only the top of the line scopes. He also likes Leupold, Nightforce and S&B.

 

[Shawnjohn16]

Lol. I'm not going to get involved in the back n forth on the BC's and bullet trajectories argument that's evolved here.
But instead say. WOW. Awesome trip. Looks like a blast.

 

[atilla]

goddamn. come show me a thing or two with my .308, please.

 

[Davidk]

goddamn. come show me a thing or two with my .308, please.

Its all about strict adherance of the fundamentals of markmenship. The longer the range the more your mistakes show. Happy to help you if you meet me at my range

 

[atilla]

might take you up on it one of these days! i don't have any decent .308 to shoot out of the rifle, it's all milsurp or crappy core-lokt that i have no idea where i got it.

 

[Davidk]

The fundamentals are the same regardless of the rifle or ammo

 

[MetalgodZ]

The reticle looks significantly less busy to me once you've turned the illumination on. The big horizontal bars are nice, but the red dots stand out much better.

The fundamentals are the same regardless of the rifle or ammo

True.

I've only got the PTR in 308, and it doesn't have a scope at the moment. I'd really like to take you up on that as well, once I've got a good claw mount and scope for the PTR and I've walked it out past 200 (longest range I've regularly got access to).

Worst case, I've got a good heavy barrel CZ that loves 75gr Hornady loads. That's got to be at least usable for picking on my fundamentals out to 500 or 600...

 

[Boghog1]

Damn now you got me looking at $$$$ scopes for my $$ rifle hard to spend more than double what the rifle cost.

 

[mav]

The reticle looks significantly less busy to me once you've turned the illumination on. The big horizontal bars are nice, but the red dots stand out much better.

True.

I've only got the PTR in 308, and it doesn't have a scope at the moment. I'd really like to take you up on that as well, once I've got a good claw mount and scope for the PTR and I've walked it out past 200 (longest range I've regularly got access to).

Worst case, I've got a good heavy barrel CZ that loves 75gr Hornady loads. That's got to be at least usable for picking on my fundamentals out to 500 or 600...

Buy a bolt action Remington 700 or Savage 10 in .308. Fairly cheap, around $700 (less for used) and much easier to work on longer range fundamentals than with a semi-auto.

Damn now you got me looking at $$$$ scopes for my $$ rifle hard to spend more than double what the rifle cost.

Think of it as an investment that moves from gun to gun...

 

[DrRansom]

Damn now you got me looking at $$$$ scopes for my $$ rifle hard to spend more than double what the rifle cost.

This is as it should be. You will only ever shoot as accurately as you can precisely see and aim your rifle, regardless of how accurate the rifle is.

 

[TheRoland]

This is as it should be. You will only ever shoot as accurately as you can precisely see and aim your rifle, regardless of how accurate the rifle is.

Good glass is cheaper now than ever before, though. The Bushnell HDMR (available with a Horus reticle!) is great glass, has many of the bells and whistles, and is in the sub-$2000 range. A reliably sub-MOA custom rifle is $3000+.
easily.

 

[MetalgodZ]

Buy a bolt action Remington 700 or Savage 10 in .308. Fairly cheap, around $700 (less for used) and much easier to work on longer range fundamentals than with a semi-auto.

CZ or Rem in .30-06 is on the list, and but I've got a wedding to deal with at the moment. If I feel ambitious and finally get around to setting up the reloading table, I've been thinking of going bigger (.338 Lapua), "just because," and letting the wife pick out her own bolt .30-06.

Think of it as an investment that moves from gun to gun...

Yep...QD mounts needed, too.

 

[mav]

CZ or Rem in .30-06 is on the list, and but I've got a wedding to deal with at the moment. If I feel ambitious and finally get around to setting up the reloading table, I've been thinking of going bigger (.338 Lapua), "just because," and letting the wife pick out her own bolt .30-06.

Yep...QD mounts needed, too.

Yeah, I ended up selling my .308 bolt action and building an LR-308 to replace it. When I buy another bolt action, it will be a Barrett or Desert Tactical. The nice thing about the Desert Tactical is that they have a chassis with interchangeable barrels and actions in different calibers. So you can swap between say .338 or .300 Win Mag and .308 in just a few minutes.

 

[DrRansom]

Good glass is cheaper now than ever before, though. The Bushnell HDMR (available with a Horus reticle!) is great glass, has many of the bells and whistles, and is in the sub-$2000 range. A reliably sub-MOA custom rifle is $3000+.
easily.

It's not just a matter of glass and reticle though, but overall scope construction. Even miniscule misalignments in erectors and inconsistencies in adjustment can result in problems (and more frustratingly, "unexplainable" misses) when you're at long range. I'll take my PMII over any Bushnell, NF, etc.

----------------------------

Questions to the OP:
What was your average MV, ES, and StdDev for your rifle and ammunition? (assuming H 178AMax)
What ballistics calculator did you use for your measurements?
What elevation were you at?
What pressure/humidity?
What downward angle did you have to shoot at to hit the target?

 

[TheRoland]

For sure, the PMII is the king of the "not 5k" scopes. I see a ton of them following the PRS out west.

 

[MetalgodZ]

Yeah, I ended up selling my .308 bolt action and building an LR-308 to replace it. When I buy another bolt action, it will be a Barrett or Desert Tactical. The nice thing about the Desert Tactical is that they have a chassis with interchangeable barrels and actions in different calibers. So you can swap between say .338 or .300 Win Mag and .308 in just a few minutes.

Very interesting...I'll have to take a look.

And the .338 Lapua idea isn't just "oh, that looks cool, I think I'll buy something oversized and not have anything else to really learn on." I've got several .30 cal bolt guns (03-A3, Nagant) that I've been shooting for a while, but none that are scoped. I've got a stripped 03-A3 receiver and bolt that I got, basically for free, that I've been thinking of building up. If I build that up, I'll scope it.

Fundamentals of the shot and the short shot I've been doing for a while now. I do, however, need both a range over 200-250 yards and someone to sit over my shoulder and provide a little instruction on the long stuff. I've been dragging my feet about joining Hamilton, which is both close enough to shoot regularly, and long enough that I can start messing around with wind and longer shots. (Still, only technically "mid-range" distance.)

 

[RockIt]

There are 39.37 inches in a meter.

Doing the math (39.37in per meter * 1600meters)/12inches per foot = 5249.34 feet

5280 feet in a mile, so this was VERY close to a one mile shot, short by about 30 feet.

Impressive.

 

[Fattman]

Darn, I never did the math myself, but you are right. It must be that yards are bigger in TX, he was using "new math" or rounding up!. The drink cups at the restaurants were the biggest that I have ever seen. LOL

Thinking back, it was probably meters, not yards and I miss remembered. Text amended.

Did you go to twin peaks????? thats a texas must.

 

[TheRoland]

I feel like maybe we should have a long-range forum instead of hijacking poor David's thread.

 

[mav]

My club in Taunton/Raynham has a 300 yard range which I use frequently. I plan on joining Woodcock in Dartmouth this Spring, once the LR-308 is built. They have a 400 yard range. About the longest I'll get in eastern MA it seems.

Once I make a few tens of millions , I'll buy enough land to set up a 1000 yard range somewhere local and open my own club. Based on other conversations I've had, seems like there would be some serious demand for this locally...

 

[PatMcD]

Making hits on a sub-MOA target at 1700 yds with a .308 is truly impressive. That is a long way. I'd be curious to see how many hits out of ten shots could be made in a no-wind condition.