'17 NH Constitutional Carry, SB12 is law & U can carry if U can own, including MA res

[namedpipes]

Northwood Police Chief Glen Drolet, president of the New Hampshire Association of Chiefs of Police, believes the change will make police work more dangerous.
http://www.unionleader.com/Concealed-carry:-Imminent-repeal-of-permit-requirement-has-NH-residents-concerned,-thrilled

I think the cold is getting to him. He needs a hat. I'll knit one for him.

If he fears the law abiding, good people of new hamster that much, he should quit and move to Canada.

The criminal element are no more or less likely to carry concealed than before.

sent from my chimney using smoke signals

 

[Frizzle Fry]

The criminal element are no more or less likely to carry concealed than before.

QFT

 

[mikem317]

I think the cold is getting to him. He needs a hat. I'll knit one for him.

If he fears the law abiding, good people of new hamster that much, he should quit and move to Canada.

The criminal element are no more or less likely to carry concealed than before.

sent from my chimney using smoke signals

Good point. He seems to think that bad guys would be always seeking licenses in order to carry:

"Under the current law, officers arriving at a police call or making a stop have the benefit of knowing whether their local chief has issued a permit for someone to carry a concealed handgun, said Drolet.

"It was kind of our one leg up," Drolet said Friday."

Which is interesting: If a resident of Salem has a valid P&R, does another police department, say from Northfield, have the resources to check and validate? I always thought the licences were offline.

 

[noxin]

Northwood Police Chief Glen Drolet, president of the New Hampshire Association of Chiefs of Police, believes the change will make police work more dangerous.
http://www.unionleader.com/Concealed-carry:-Imminent-repeal-of-permit-requirement-has-NH-residents-concerned,-thrilled

The police chiefs have pulled this shit in every state that has gone cc in the last few years. Maine, West Virginia, and now nh. None of which have turned into a shooting galley, or even have had a noticeable difference in their firearm related deaths.

It gives them less reasons to arrest people and they hate it.

 

[Kevin_NH]

As for the law's possible implications, 2nd Amendment expert and New Hampshire lawyer Penny Dean explained that out-of-state visitors excited to be able to carry openly or concealed in the Granite State should still keep in mind that they need a nonresident pistol or revolver permit.

Bill applies to both NH residents and non-residents. So I have no idea what she's referring to.

Maybe she is thinking of the Federal "Gun Free School Zone" exception? It's not even a direct quote, so no idea if it is out of context

Which is interesting: If a resident of Salem has a valid P&R, does another police department, say from Northfield, have the resources to check and validate? I always thought the licences were offline.

There's no official registry of Resident licensees, unlike MA we don't feed the national NLETS database with CHL data. If an officer is stopping somebody from one town over, I'm sure there's an informal mechanism to do the same query that an in-town officer would make.

When a NH resident moves, they need to notify the new town of residence to keep the license active:

When the licensee hereunder ceases to be a resident of the community in which the license was issued he shall notify in writing the issuing authority at his new place of residence that he has a current license. Such license shall remain in effect until it expires pursuant to RSA 159:6.

 

[ScottS]

Good point. He seems to think that bad guys would be always seeking licenses in order to carry:

"Under the current law, officers arriving at a police call or making a stop have the benefit of knowing whether their local chief has issued a permit for someone to carry a concealed handgun, said Drolet.

"It was kind of our one leg up," Drolet said Friday."

Which is interesting: If a resident of Salem has a valid P&R, does another police department, say from Northfield, have the resources to check and validate? I always thought the licenses were offline.

They are. In all these quotes from COPs, they always make it sound like there's a central database they just radio into for the info. Not the case. The license info is kept at the local issuing agency (PD), and not digitized. I've seen some people state that such a database is, in fact, proscribed by NH law, but I can't find a reference to that.

What I really like is that all the LEO's interviewed explain the exact rationale for CC to be passed. They all say things like, "Well, if this person is a 'known troublemaker,'" or "We don't think this person has the temperament," etc. They all lament the fact they can no longer make the very definition of arbitrary and capricious decisions.

 

[Golddiggie]

Which is interesting: If a resident of Salem has a valid P&R, does another police department, say from Northfield, have the resources to check and validate? I always thought the licences were offline.

AFAIK (or what I was told when I picked mine up last June), a PO would have to call the issuing town to confirm you have a P&R. I had asked if I needed to keep a physical copy of my P&R with me and was informed that I did not. I did take a picture of it to keep on my phone (just in case).

 

[mikem317]

They are. In all these quotes from COPs, they always make it sound like there's a central database they just radio into for the info. Not the case. The license info is kept at the local issuing agency (PD), and not digitized. I've seen some people state that such a database is, in fact, proscribed by NH law, but I can't find a reference to that.

What I really like is that all the LEO's interviewed explain the exact rationale for CC to be passed. They all say things like, "Well, if this person is a 'known troublemaker,'" or "We don't think this person has the temperament," etc. They all lament the fact they can no longer make the very definition of arbitrary and capricious decisions.

Yeah, I noticed that too. The other thing I noticed is this glaring inability for CLEOs to restrict "known troublemakers" for open carrying. Or carrying an unloaded but concealed handgun. I wonder what they would say if pressed. They seem to conflate a P&R License as required for simple possession of a handgun. But it's not. You would think a CLEO in NH would know this. Or maybe they do and are just being coy.

AFAIK (or what I was told when I picked mine up last June), a PO would have to call the issuing town to confirm you have a P&R. I had asked if I needed to keep a physical copy of my P&R with me and was informed that I did not. I did take a picture of it to keep on my phone (just in case).

Good idea. I keep a copy in my vehicle too.

 

[Golddiggie]

Good idea. I keep a copy in my vehicle too.

Since I always have my phone on me, I just keep that image available.

With CC coming about for NH, I will probably renew my P&R when it's time. More for the additional benefits than anything else. Plus, at how cheap it is, it's easy to justify.

 

[mikem317]

Yeah, I noticed that too. The other thing I noticed is this glaring inability for CLEOs to restrict "known troublemakers" for open carrying. Or carrying an unloaded but concealed handgun. I wonder what they would say if pressed. They seem to conflate a P&R License as required for simple possession of a handgun. But it's not. You would think a CLEO in NH would know this. Or maybe they do and are just being coy.

From the UNION LEADER article:

If that permit requirement is now eliminated, local police answering a call won't know if a gun might be involved. - See more at: http://www.unionleader.com/Conceale...ents-concerned,-thrilled#sthash.EayUxOSy.dpuf

Found it. Not sure if this is the article's author, PAT GROSSMITH wordsmithing here, or not. But it does underscore the fact that some people, including law enforcement officials, believe a P&R is required for mere possession. Heck, I have longtime neighbors and friends in NH that recently got a P&R so they could get a gun. They were under the impression they needed the license even to just purchase.

- - - Updated - - -

Since I always have my phone on me, I just keep that image available.

With CC coming about for NH, I will probably renew my P&R when it's time. More for the additional benefits than anything else. Plus, at how cheap it is, it's easy to justify.

Same here. The extra year, from 4 to 5, is nice too. Hopefully JR and the other pro-freedom members of the House can cook-up a LIFETIME license type. And make it $0.

 

[Dradian]

Since I always have my phone on me, I just keep that image available.

With CC coming about for NH, I will probably renew my P&R when it's time. More for the additional benefits than anything else. Plus, at how cheap it is, it's easy to justify.

I went to staples, had them copy and shrink the P&R to be the same size as a credit card then laminate. makes it eaiser to keep in the wallet.

sent from my phone

 

[mikem317]

Can't wait to see this get updated!

 

[Oldarmy]

The Governor was on Jack Heath's New Hampshire Today show this morning. He said he will sign this bill as soon as it hits his desk

 

[Kevin_NH]

Yeah, that lifetime license deal worked out soooo well for Massachusetts.

Same here. The extra year, from 4 to 5, is nice too. Hopefully JR and the other pro-freedom members of the House can cook-up a LIFETIME license type. And make it $0.

On the one hand, our lifetime hunting license has been a good source of revenue, but on the other, would a lifetime license be accepted for reciprocity by all the same states as the current license?

Five years is the longest validity acceptable for a state-issued license to serve as a replacement for the Brady background check, see § 922 (s)(1)(C)(i)(II). NH would still need to fine-tune the resident P&R for it to qualify as an exemption to the Brady check, but this does bring us closer. I could see NH going with the Alaska system, where an optional checkbox on the application leads to a "NICS-Exempt" endorsement on the license.

 

[mikem317]

On the one hand, our lifetime hunting license has been a good source of revenue, but on the other, would a lifetime license be accepted for reciprocity by all the same states as the current license?

Five years is the longest validity acceptable for a state-issued license to serve as a replacement for the Brady background check, see § 922 (s)(1)(C)(i)(II). NH would still need to fine-tune the resident P&R for it to qualify as an exemption to the Brady check, but this does bring us closer. I could see NH going with the Alaska system, where an optional checkbox on the application leads to a "NICS-Exempt" endorsement on the license.
View attachment 190579

Even if there's no appetite for LIFETIME licenses, I would still like to see both resident and non-resident licenses costs to be set to $0. CCWs fees are pretty darn close to poll taxes, IMHO, and they're illegal. And for good reason as it obviously has a chilling effect on a Constitutionally-protected right.

I never lived in a Brady-exempt state so I don't know the full pros-and-cons of that setup. I dig the AK model. Kinda like the current "Would you like a REAL ID compliant NH driver's license or not?"

 

[Jared]

For a NICS exempt license, it may be better to just have the county sheriff's issue the license by mail and print out a 2X3 plastic card.


Once the bill is law, the police will have to issue if you can posses. It may be better to just have the state police issue them since suitability is no longer a factor and they can print and mail you the cards.

I think the sheriff's would be fine as well but playing wack-a-mole with 100+ chiefs and localities gets old.
The blue PRL's, especially from a town selectman look fake. If you are visiting Detroit and show that license, if they can't verify it because your town selectman isn't answering his phone, guess who will be arrested?

I'd imagine the same is true for Philadelphia and a couple of other places.

One more thing, for the NICS waiver, it has to be 5 years max, not 5 years plus until your next birthday, and not 5 years and then for the rest of the month. It has to be 5 years to the day or less.

The bad part is that you will have to be 18+ to get a license.

Maybe having an enhanced license may be the way to go.

 

[timbo]

For a NICS exempt license, it may be better to just have the county sheriff's issue the license by mail and print out a 2X3 plastic card.


Once the bill is law, the police will have to issue if you can posses. It may be better to just have the state police issue them since suitability is no longer a factor and they can print and mail you the cards.

I think the sheriff's would be fine as well but playing wack-a-mole with 100+ chiefs and localities gets old.
The blue PRL's, especially from a town selectman look fake. If you are visiting Detroit and show that license, if they can't verify it because your town selectman isn't answering his phone, guess who will be arrested?

I'd imagine the same is true for Philadelphia and a couple of other places.

One more thing, for the NICS waiver, it has to be 5 years max, not 5 years plus until your next birthday, and not 5 years and then for the rest of the month. It has to be 5 years to the day or less.

The bad part is that you will have to be 18+ to get a license.

Maybe having an enhanced license may be the way to go.

No license at all is my preference...If I can legally own a pistol or revolver (or any firearm for that matter) I should be able to carry concealed without anyone knowing.

State Police issuing licenses would most likely mean everybody ends up in a database. At least with local CoP's issuing licenses, it has been local and relatively anonymous....allegedly.

 

[Jared]

No license at all is my preference...If I can legally own a pistol or revolver (or any firearm for that matter) I should be able to carry concealed without anyone knowing.

State Police issuing licenses would most likely mean everybody ends up in a database. At least with local CoP's issuing licenses, it has been local and relatively anonymous....allegedly.

Constitution carry will already allow for that.

The point of the optional permit is for reciprocity and increased recognition. Something has to give for this goal, either different tiers of optional permits or making the optional permit in a database, or many states won't recognize it.

 

[timbo]

Constitution carry will already allow for that.

The point of the optional permit is for reciprocity and increased recognition. Something has to give for this goal, either different tiers of optional permits or making the optional permit in a database, or many states won't recognize it.

States we share reciprocity with now already accept our licenses without a statewide data base.

 

[Peicemaker]

Northwood Police Chief Glen Drolet, president of the New Hampshire Association of Chiefs of Police, believes the change will make police work more dangerous.
http://www.unionleader.com/Concealed-carry:-Imminent-repeal-of-permit-requirement-has-NH-residents-concerned,-thrilled

That guy is a total asshat. He really sounds like what I would expect a cleo in mAss to sound like. He refuses permits to known drug users and people who are suicide risks? I can see such a measure working here, but in nh those people can still procure firearms. I'm not sure how not being in possession of a carry permit would have any bearing on a suicidal person shooting themself or a druggie doing drugs. The guy's premise is completely retarded.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Northwood Police Chief Glen Drolet, president of the New Hampshire Association of Chiefs of Police, believes the change will make police work more dangerous.
http://www.unionleader.com/Conceale...uirement-has-NH-residents-concerned,-thrilled

Glen should be removed from office. Mass will welcome that tyrant with open arms. *******.

 

[timbo]

That guy is a total asshat. He really sounds like what I would expect a cleo in mAss to sound like. He refuses permits to known drug users and people who are suicide risks? I can see such a measure working here, but in nh those people can still procure firearms. I'm not sure how not being in possession of a carry permit would have any bearing on a suicidal person shooting themself or a druggie doing drugs. The guy's premise is completely retarded.

He actually started out as a Border patrol agent in Texas. I expected to see he had started out as a cop in mass or NY

 

[Jared]

States we share reciprocity with now already accept our licenses without a statewide data base.

More states would. That's why very gun friendly states like Idaho and South Dakota offer optional tiered licenses.

 

[42!]

Might be a good idea for folks to call the Gov's office and remind him to sign the bill.....he campaigned on signing it into law but I'm pretty sure they are getting hammered with calls from hysterical dems.......


We're in the home stretch....make the call......603-271-2121

See post #464, give the Gov a break, he's all in.

 

[design]

Dear Gun owner,

I am sure that by now you have heard that last Thursday, February 9, the New Hampshire House of Representatives voted "ought to pass" on SB 12, Constitutional Carry by a super majority, 200-97.

The bill will now go to Governor Chris Sununu for consideration. Please contact Governor Chris Sununu and let him know that you support SB 12, Constitutional Carry. This is very important, our enemies are attempting to flood his office with calls and emails and he must hear from firearms owners.Tell Governor Sununu that you will rely upon the New Hampshire Firearms Coalition to keep you informed of their actions on SB 12, Constitutional Carry.

There is still a few hours left to sign our Constitutional Carry Petition. All petitions which are signed by 11:59 PM, Monday, February 13 will be delivered to the Governor, in hard copy form.

In case you missed it, last week, NHFC Vice President, Alan Rice and Corporate Secretary, Rep. JR Hoell co-authored a column which appeared in the February 8 edition of the Union Leader.

You may recall that last week, the House Criminal Justice and Public Safety Committee voted both HB 201 "sell a gun to a friend, go to jail" and HB 350, the "voter gun ban", "inexpedient to legislate" (ITL). However, my friends at the Statehouse told me that our enemies are gearing up for a floor fight on HB 350 "Voter Gun Ban" and maybe even HB 201 "sell a gun to a friend, go to jail".

Your calls and emails made a huge difference and as Alan and I have been telling you all year; it is you, the Grassroots Gun Owners who are our strength. We will keep you informed and we will do everything we can when we are in Concord, but we count on your support. We still need calls and emails to ALL State Representatives to stop the "Voter Gun Ban" and "sell a gun to a friend, go to jail" bills.

Please click here for contact information for your State Representatives and urge them to vote HB 350 and HB 201 Inexpedient to Legislate (ITL). These bills have no redeeming qualities and cannot be amended. They must be defeated.

Lastly, NHFC is an almost all volunteer organization. Our only staff member receiving any form of payment is a part-time bookkeeper. All Board Members and Officers have volunteered our time to win back our civil rights. Unlike another group which is pretending to operate in New Hampshire, NHFC uses all monies raised to defend your rights and all money raised stays in New Hampshire. We do this through an aggressive email, postal mail and online advertising program. 100% of your dues and donations stay in New Hampshire.

We try to be as frugal as we can and bulk email is far less expensive than postal mail, there are still costs associated with sending high volume email as well printing and delivering petitions and written testimony to the Statehouse. We do not charge a few to receive our email updates because we feel that is important to involve as many firearms owners as possible. However, if you can help please click here or here to become a member.

Thanks for your support.

In Liberty,

Scott A. Krauss
President - NHFC

P.S. The New Hampshire Firearms Coalition is working tirelessly to keep gun owners like you up-to-date on as many gun issues as possible -- please consider contributing to the effort by chipping in $15 or $20.

Click here to support NHFC by purchasing one of our custom rifles.

Was this email forwarded to you? Click here to go to our home page and sign up for legislative alerts.

Not an NHFC Member? Click here to join.

 

[Brin747]

Got a family membership to NHFC last week...

 

[BBQ.Uncle]

Got a family membership to NHFC last week...

We did too. The antis have a lot of money to use against us, it makes sense to invest a few bucks to help the guys who are helping us.

 

[Horrible]

We're in the home stretch....make the call......603-271-2121



When Sununu signs it then I'll believe it

Until then trust but verify and that means calling and urging the Gov to do what he said he would do

Sununu has a long track record of splitting the baby......personally I hope he has learned from Sen Ayotte and Frmr Sen Sununu's failed re-election campaigns and what happens when they turn their backs on their base constituent voters.

Don't forget to add fmr Senator Scott Brown (defeated twice in two different states) and soon-to-be fmr Gov. Charlie Baker to your list of those that went to down to epic defeat shortly after turning their backs on their base!

 

[timbo]

We've got to neuter Zandra Rice-Hawkins somhow (executive director of Granite State "Regress").

http://granitegrok.com/blog/2017/02/zandra-rice-hawkins-master-purveyor-fud-towards-second-amendment

 

[ScottS]

We've got to neuter Zandra Rice-Hawkins somhow (executive director of Granite State "Regress").

http://granitegrok.com/blog/2017/02/zandra-rice-hawkins-master-purveyor-fud-towards-second-amendment

I don't know. She seems to be doing a pretty good job of neutering herself. Recycled talking points for each "outrage," the Senate passing SB12, the House taking it up, passing it, etc.

God forbid they get rid of her and put someone effective in her place.

A weak enemy is just fine with me.