10-22 LTR help

Coyote33

Coyote33

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OK, I am looking at options for a 10-22.

Right now, it is stock, other than an extended magazine release a forum member sent me.

I have heard of a couple changes to make the rifle A) more accurate B) more reliable C) more usable. What I don't want to do is build an incredibly expensive .22 target rifle. What I DO want is to improve my rifle for the least possible money put into it.

A) Trigger job? Trigger replacement? Sear replacement? Do it yourself? Leave it alone? Firing pin? Other? Again, think the least invested for the most gained.

A) Tech sights look good, but I want a fiber optic front. Or do you think a fluorescent painted dot on the front sight will do it? Right now, the black stinks out loud.

B1) I sometimes have jams. I think it is not ejecting properly, and then blocks the next round from feeding. Is there an extractor or ejector or something which fixes this? Again, think the least invested for the most gained.

B2) What lube to use? Where? How often?

B3) Bore snake, or cleaning rod? The cleaning rod is easier, but just wondering, as bore snakes are popular. I just don't like the idea of putting that into the washing machine.

B4) Do you folks find more powerful ammo results in better reliability? I have had great success with Velocitor, but it is expensive. I wish they sold it in bricks.

C) What am I missing? I plan on a sling, but not until some of the other stuff is sorted out, and I may want to check some out first.

Thanks.
 
I did mine a little while ago, I kept it simple Tech sights, new extractor and extended mag release.

extractor http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=363360

I use gun oil and just relube after I clean it
I mostly use a cleaning rod as it is easy, if Im going for the super clean I will use the snake after to make sure remaining junk is cleaned out.
I shoot standard Federal bulk pack from walmart no issues since I got the new extractor
 
I did the volquartsen (sp?) hammer myself. 10 minute job and if you look hard enough there are some youtube videos out there that will show you inch by inch what needs to be done. That one mod made a BIG difference in the trigger, and was relatively cheap and easy.

While I was at it, I did the mod for the bolt release. Simple to do (do it at the same time you are replacing the hammer.) and a nice feature to have.


Check rimfirecentral for LOTS of info on these and other simple mods you can do. (Including an ejector that may resolve your reliability issues.)
 
A1 - A diy trigger job is free and easy to do yourself (see below)

A2 - IMO Forget using iron sights and get a scope....your eyes will thank you

B1 - There is an aftermarket ejector for about 7 bucks its worth it and easy to install

B2 - I use CLP and lightly lube everything....I do try and keep lube away from the bolt face. Every 500 - 1500 rounds I take it apart clean and put back together.

B3 Use whatever gets it clean. Look for deposits at the end of the barrel easy to miss sometimes.

B4 - I use federal gold medal and CCI standard velocity both work well

C - The sling should be your top priority it adds a lot more stability than you might think.

Other stuff: Watch the receiver screw it comes loose and your accuracy goes out the window. You may find some benefit to adding a spacer pad to the stock I find that it helps keep the scope in the right place in relation to my eye.

The inside of your receiver might be painted. You may find that the paint peels and gets in all the works. I sanded mine so all thats left is bare metal. Gun cleaner may be responsible for this problem.

My trigger job involves polishing all the mating surfaces and then grinding down the hammer with a dremel sanding disc (rimfirecentral has a sticky). Another thing I do is polish the plunger behind the trigger. The part that touches the trigger should be rounded and mirror finish. Also I taper the body of the plunger since it scrapes against the walls of the receiver. You can easily get a 3 pound trigger pull with stock parts.

It is possible to shoot 1/2 - 3/4 inch groups with all stock parts and a sling at 25 yards. Spend your money on ammo and targets until you can at least put 10 shots in a 1 inch box at 25 yards.

Only my .02....
 
Coyote33 said:
OK, I am looking at options for a 10-22.

Right now, it is stock, other than an extended magazine release a forum member sent me.

I have heard of a couple changes to make the rifle A) more accurate B) more reliable C) more usable. What I don't want to do is build an incredibly expensive .22 target rifle. What I DO want is to improve my rifle for the least possible money put into it.

A) Trigger job? Trigger replacement? Sear replacement? Do it yourself? Leave it alone? Firing pin? Other? Again, think the least invested for the most gained.

I polished the trigger surfaces using a post on Rimfirecentral.com as a guide - I marked the correct surfaces with a red marker then used some 180 grit then 220 grit paper to remove just enough material to make the surfaces smooth - the "grain" was in the direction of motion, not across. I did not stone the hammer.

I have another trigger set to do at some point - I can help you at the same time if you like.

A) Tech sights look good, but I want a fiber optic front. Or do you think a fluorescent painted dot on the front sight will do it? Right now, the black stinks out loud.

There are fiber optic options available but I have no experience with them. The Tech Sites are worth it - my next set will be the 200 series with windage & elevation at the rear & extended front post

B1) I sometimes have jams. I think it is not ejecting properly, and then blocks the next round from feeding. Is there an extractor or ejector or something which fixes this? Again, think the least invested for the most gained.

First step, get an old toothbrush - tear it down to the bolt and use Hoppes and the brush - get it really clean. Reassemble and use Rem oil or similar oil - NOT WD40 - take it for a test ride again. If you still get misfeeds with a low round count, seek the extractor solution - the Volq gets high marks

B2) What lube to use? Where? How often?

Rem oil or straight 30wgt or any other similar gun oil - NOT WD40, it's a good product but its not gun oil

B3) Bore snake, or cleaning rod? The cleaning rod is easier, but just wondering, as bore snakes are popular. I just don't like the idea of putting that into the washing machine.

I got a snake and got a couple other calibers after that. Worth every penny, just go from the bor end, not crown end.

B4) Do you folks find more powerful ammo results in better reliability? I have had great success with Velocitor, but it is expensive. I wish they sold it in bricks.

I had a hard time finding ammo that would cycle reliably - Federal/American Eagle works well for me, Remy almost anything doesn't fire reliably - my rifle has a 10k round count on it though so I may need to replace the firing pin to get a good smack on the rounds.

C) What am I missing? I plan on a sling, but not until some of the other stuff is sorted out, and I may want to check some out first.

Sling - get one. Get the simple one recommended for LTR or a VTac (its what I use on mine), even a simple leather sling and using the "hasty" grip is better than nothing. QD swivels are a definite plus.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Adders would be 5 extra mags and range time - Party on Wayne
 
1 - the VQ bolt and hammer package (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=145851) is a virtual drop-in trigger job, and in my opinion the only necessary upgrade to a 10/22 besides Tech Sights. I couldn't recommend it more highly - gave a dirty, rust, crap-filled 30 year old 10/22 I bought for $90 a sweet smooth 2.5lb trigger pull. Some guys do the modifications on their own, but I don't trust myself to do it.

2 - Once you install Tech Sights, you can replace the front sight post with a fiber optic post if you like. It's an inexpensive part.

3 - What kind of ammo are you using? Some .22s are ammo sensitive. My 10/22 runs nearly flawlessly on Federal bulk packs, but gets hung up on occasion with standard velocity ammo. Also, make sure the rifle is clean and well lubed.

4 - I use M-Pro 7 and am quite happy with the results.

5 - Bore snake is all you need, small and easy to store, easy to clean in the sink with soap and water.

6 - High end .22 ammo is only needed for precision marksmanship. All you need for a LTR is reliable and cheap. Everyone seems to love the Federal bulk packs, $13ish/550 rounds at Walmart.

7 - Sling, at least 4 mags, and lots and lots of practice.
 
Your best resource for information is rimfirecentral.com

It may take several hours of reading, but you'll leanr more about the 10/22 than you thought there was to know.

For mine, I:
1) epoxy bedded the action and 1st 1.5" of barrel, then Dremmeled out the rest of the barrel channel to float the rest of the barrel. (GET RID of the barrel band.)

2) did a DIY trigger job (now breaks crisp at 3lbs).

3) replaced the factory barrel with a Green Mountain sporter weight barrel.

4) added a 3-9X scope.

Lastly, .22s, like most guns, will have a favorite ammo. After doing you mods, find your gun's favorite. Mine shoots better with Wolf Match than the $16 per box of 50 Elley. And by better, I mean typical groups are 1/4" at 25yards.

Good luck and have fun. Remember, if you don't fool with it you don't take a chance of breaking it and having to fix it...and what fun is that?!?!
 
chaynes68 said:
Other stuff: Watch the receiver screw it comes loose and your accuracy goes out the window. You may find some benefit to adding a spacer pad to the stock I find that it helps keep the scope in the right place in relation to my eye.
Click to expand...

+1 I added some loc tite to mine after it came loose during an Appleseed.
 
Some call it extractor, and others call it ejector. Are these the same thing?

Again, if it is <$15 for the part, I will consider it if it improves my reliability markedly. If it is over $15, I doubt I'd go for it unless I had a failure on the current part.

Thanks.
 
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Also, doesn't all the fancy gimmickry and gadgetry defeat the purpose of the "LTR" (Liberty Training Rifle)?

My only departure from the norm here would be a scope instead of the Tech-sights. I know there are some decent Simmons ones at Dick's sporting goods. I'd prefer a 30mm to let in more light, but we'll see. Maybe I'll spring for some fiber optic sights. What I'm getting at here is good low-light visibility. Thanks again.
 
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Here's my opinion...

Coyote33 said:
OK, I am looking at options for a 10-22.

Right now, it is stock, other than an extended magazine release a forum member sent me.

I have heard of a couple changes to make the rifle A) more accurate B) more reliable C) more usable. What I don't want to do is build an incredibly expensive .22 target rifle. What I DO want is to improve my rifle for the least possible money put into it.

A) Trigger job? Trigger replacement? Sear replacement? Do it yourself? Leave it alone? Firing pin? Other? Again, think the least invested for the most gained.

Do you want to spend the money? I have a VQ hammer and it has done wonders for my accuracy. It's not necessary, but it's nice.

A) Tech sights look good, but I want a fiber optic front. Or do you think a fluorescent painted dot on the front sight will do it? Right now, the black stinks out loud.

Why? Tech Sights are definitely the way to go if you want an LTR. I think the K.I.S.S. principle should apply to an LTR. I personally don't agree with the scope people out there. I'd rather be good with irons, then maybe shoot with a scope later. If you absolutely can not see the targets AT ALL...sure then use a scope. "see the fuzz...shoot the fuzz"

B1) I sometimes have jams. I think it is not ejecting properly, and then blocks the next round from feeding. Is there an extractor or ejector or something which fixes this? Again, think the least invested for the most gained.

Others have mentioned extractor replacements already.

B2) What lube to use? Where? How often?

I use breakfree CLP on everything every time I shoot....or a month later when I realize i'm not actually getting back out to the range "this weekend." Definitely every night after an appleseed though.

B3) Bore snake, or cleaning rod? The cleaning rod is easier, but just wondering, as bore snakes are popular. I just don't like the idea of putting that into the washing machine.

Easier?? I can clean my barrel before I even put a stupid cleaning rod together. I've cleaned my barrels probably 40-50times (AR and 10/22) and my boresnake doesn't even look dirty. Handwash it if you're sketchy about a washing machine for some reason.

B4) Do you folks find more powerful ammo results in better reliability? I have had great success with Velocitor, but it is expensive. I wish they sold it in bricks.

Federal Bulk Pack only here...

C) What am I missing? I plan on a sling, but not until some of the other stuff is sorted out, and I may want to check some out first.

You want 1 1/4" Uncle Mike's QD swivels/swivel stud kit. They can be had a midway for pretty cheap. Then go to the appleseed website and get a USGI cotton web sling for an inexpensive, reliable, well made sling. This is one of THE most important parts of a rifle. Do not overlook a sling.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Also, you people that loctite your receiver screw....do you not take your receiver off for cleaning? Loctite isn't really meant to be used like that.
 
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Would have sworn I asked to have my LTR thread made a sticky...

Coyote33 said:
A) Trigger job? Trigger replacement? Sear replacement? Do it yourself? Leave it alone? Firing pin? Other? Again, think the least invested for the most gained.
Either spend the money for the Volquartsen kit or go to www.rimfirecentral, the Ruger 10/22 forum, 10/22 action subsection and look at the sticky there labeled "Action Reference Section" and scroll down to "stoning the hammer".

A) Tech sights look good, but I want a fiber optic front. Or do you think a fluorescent painted dot on the front sight will do it? Right now, the black stinks out loud.
IIRC, I've seen AR-15 front sight pins that are fiber optic. So get both - get the Tech Sights and replace the front sight pin. Either way, they're worth every penny. If you're not doing long range shooting with your 10/22, you can cheap out and get the TSR 100 set. I did, since I don't shoot long range with my LTR.

B1) I sometimes have jams. I think it is not ejecting properly, and then blocks the next round from feeding. Is there an extractor or ejector or something which fixes this? Again, think the least invested for the most gained.
Volquartsen Exact Edge Extractors. $11.29. Worth it at three times the price.

B2) What lube to use? Where? How often?
Whatever. I usually use BreakFree or Triflow. Every time I clean it.

B3) Bore snake, or cleaning rod? The cleaning rod is easier, but just wondering, as bore snakes are popular. I just don't like the idea of putting that into the washing machine.
Drill a hole in the back of the receiver and clean it from the rear with no means of damaging the muzzle. .

B4) Do you folks find more powerful ammo results in better reliability? I have had great success with Velocitor, but it is expensive. I wish they sold it in bricks.
Federal bulk stuff from Wally World. Shot Rifleman with it, and it runs just fine.

C) What am I missing? I plan on a sling, but not until some of the other stuff is sorted out, and I may want to check some out first.
Go here and read.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
You're welcome.

Coyote33 said:
Some call it extractor, and others call it ejector. Are these the same thing?

Again, if it is <$15 for the part, I will consider it if it improves my reliability markedly. If it is over $15, I doubt I'd go for it unless I had a failure on the current part.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Coyote33 said:
Also, doesn't all the fancy gimmickry and gadgetry defeat the purpose of the "LTR" (Liberty Training Rifle)?
Click to expand...
Not in the slightest. What we're trying to do here is to make you a reliable rifle with good sights so that you can practice your marksmanship. The Ruger 10/22, as equipped from the factory, has crappy sights, a 10lb trigger that breaks like a cinderblock (instead of a glass rod), a bolt release that must have been designed by a lawyer, a magazine release that Ruger only took 45+ years to redesign, etc, etc... We're just fixing a 45 year old design with the benefit of all those years of hindsight.
 
Depends on what you want to do with the gun, I own a few Ruger 10/22's.

One is my one hole puncher that started life as a Target 10/22 and I changed it to a finger whole stock Stock and added a TS Mag release Mag Release and a BSA sweet 22 scope scope.

One of my other ones is my fun gun Fun Gun that I use for plinking, it's a lot of fun.

I like Andean, Andean they have some good pricing and they are really good to deal with !!!

The sky is the limit with 10/22's, have fun !!!
 
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OK, I did the trigger myself today following a link from rimfirecentral.com to here: http://www.greatwestgunsmithing.com/Videos/1022 trigger job high.html

Seems better, but will see at the range, maybe as soon as tomorrow. I also gave everything a good cleaning and lube with Militec-1. I also painted the front sight with some pinkish/orangish fingernail polish from the wife, which makes it a lot more visible until I can get a scope or fiber sights for it. Might also consider a red-dot type sight.

Depending how it runs, I may or may not get the Volquartsen edge extractor. For 11 bucks, it might be worth it.

I did not do the bolt release, as I didn't feel like it today. I'd rather learn to use the stock gun and then improve when I see the need for improvement. This may come after I get a chance to try someone else's some time.

I will now look into slings, but I think I will want to get some training on that, as opposed to trying to guess it. I think I'll get a little range time with what I have now, and see what ammo does what, and then look into Appleseeds. Can one buy the sling at an Appleseed event?

Thanks everyone for your help. Maybe at some future point, I will try to summarize some of this into one post.

Happy New Year!
 
Coyote33 said:
Depending how it runs, I may or may not get the Volquartsen edge extractor. For 11 bucks, it might be worth it.

I did not do the bolt release, as I didn't feel like it today. I'd rather learn to use the stock gun and then improve when I see the need for improvement. This may come after I get a chance to try someone else's some time.

I will now look into slings, but I think I will want to get some training on that, as opposed to trying to guess it. I think I'll get a little range time with what I have now, and see what ammo does what, and then look into Appleseeds. Can one buy the sling at an Appleseed event?
Click to expand...
To address your points in order:

1 - the VQ extractor would be worth it at three times the price. Seriously. I have not had ONE FTE since putting it in my two LTRs. (No, I don't get money from VQ to say that; I'm just seriously impressed by an utterly awesome product.)

2 - The bolt release is another no-brainer. Biggest advantage to the modification (or buying the replacement one for about $9 from MidwayUSA) is that once your sights are on the target, you can simply release the bolt with one hand without losing your NPOA (Natural Point Of Aim). One hand only needed to release the modified bolt vs. two hands for the stock abomination.

3 - Depends on the Appleseed. Some shoots have a gunsmith on hand (he's one of our Instructors) and he can install the needed studs, swivels and slings. If you already HAVE studs on your stock, I usually have swivels and slings with me for a modest cost (basically my cost - I'm not there to make money).
 
dwarven1 said:
To address your points in order:

1 - the VQ extractor would be worth it at three times the price. Seriously. I have not had ONE FTE since putting it in my two LTRs. (No, I don't get money from VQ to say that; I'm just seriously impressed by an utterly awesome product.)

2 - The bolt release is another no-brainer. Biggest advantage to the modification (or buying the replacement one for about $9 from MidwayUSA) is that once your sights are on the target, you can simply release the bolt with one hand without losing your NPOA (Natural Point Of Aim). One hand only needed to release the modified bolt vs. two hands for the stock abomination.

3 - Depends on the Appleseed. Some shoots have a gunsmith on hand (he's one of our Instructors) and he can install the needed studs, swivels and slings. If you already HAVE studs on your stock, I usually have swivels and slings with me for a modest cost (basically my cost - I'm not there to make money).
Click to expand...

1. You already mentioned that. I want to see how it runs now after a decent cleaning. Otherwise, I'll heed your recommendation.

2. The stock bolt release is nutty. I also needed two hands and to look at it when doing it. I thought maybe I just needed more/better training. The video explains how to do that, and I may very well do it after some more range time.

3. I don't have any of that hardware. Let me know what to get, and I'll get it. Are these pretty universal? If you'd like, I can order a couple extra sets and you can have them for a future Appleseed.


Thanks again!
 
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Coyote33 said:
3. I don't have any of that hardware. Let me know what to get, and I'll get it. Are these pretty universal? If you'd like, I can order a couple extra sets and you can have them for a future Appleseed.
Click to expand...
From the sticky:

Install sling swivels studs, detachable swivels and a USGI M1 Garand type sling.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=366960 $2.49
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=943877 $8.99
http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd....rSuperSKU=&MC= $8.35, black.

4: Shooter's Ridge QD sling swivels suck; they do not hold up under usage. Use The Outdoor Connection Talon models instead - they seem to be much more sturdy. Uncle Mike's swivels are also excellent - they have held up through several shoots on my loaner LTRs now.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the offer, but I have several sets on hand - we can meet up at Harvard Sportsman's, in Marlborough, or I'll be in W. Boylston tomorrow around midday at Boylston Lodge if you want to get the parts from me.

(and thank you to the mod who made that a sticky!)
 
If it is not asking too much, could you have them with you tomorrow, and I'll try to get over there? Is your lodge Boylston, or W. Boylston? The only thing which comes to mind is off 70 on the left heading towards Clinton.
 
Training class just got cancelled - Coyote33, shoot me an email and let's figure out where we can link up.
 
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Well, I took it out today. Seemed pretty good. Had a few problems going into battery, so I will have to recheck the pins. It seemed the same as when I first bought it before I put it all together. I took it apart and put it together quickly today to make one last couple passes over a stone to really polish it up, and maybe missed the pin on the mag catch. Otherwise, the trigger work seems to have worked. It is quite a bit better, though not exactly super-duper crisp. I didn't want to overdo it. I would describe the improvement as smoother and a little lighter. It does not really let off any sooner if I remember right. I am now at the point of hating the stock sights and wanting something brighter. Will need to decide between a 4x scope and a fiber front sight. I want to try the "Tech" sights first before spending more than $20 on them. Thanks everyone for your help. If anyone has a more detailed video or pictures of how to stone the sear (think that is it, the little notch thingy), I would appreciate it. I wasn't sure, so gave it a few quick passes and just stopped before screwing something up.

Thanks again.
 
I have one set up with the Tech sights, but am from CT. If you are ever down this way or want to take a pilgrimage, you are welcome to join me at one of my clubs and shoot mine.
The tech sights are similar to AR sights, but the rear sight has pretty gross windage adjustments, and the knob is a little bit of a pain. A buddy changed out the knob with one from his AR and it is much nicer. The front post is a typical AR sight - I might change it with one that is thinner - or just grind it down....
I posted some targets I shot with mine (off a soft roll). I need to get mine to my 25 yd range and see what the elevation is there - it was shooting high at 50ft - and I had to hold considerably below the POI.
 
Coyote33 said:
I am now at the point of hating the stock sights and wanting something brighter. Will need to decide between a 4x scope and a fiber front sight. I want to try the "Tech" sights first before spending more than $20 on them.
Click to expand...
Well, I am really in the mood to go shoot something, so I can throw my LTRs in the car this coming Saturday when I head up to Harvard Sportsman's. Let me know if you'd like to meet up there. (Yes, that was LTRs, plural - one's got a Weaver K7 scope on it and the other has a set of TSR 100 Tech Sights on it. You can try both. )
 
Coyote33 said:
I am now at the point of hating the stock sights and wanting something brighter. Will need to decide between a 4x scope and a fiber front sight.
Click to expand...

The problem probably isn't with the brightness of your front sight, but your inability to capture it with your rear sight. The rear sight is why Ruger's stock sights suck so much. You could put a glowing beacon on the end of your barrel and they would still suck.
 
TonyDedo said:
The problem probably isn't with the brightness of your front sight, but your inability to capture it with your rear sight. The rear sight is why Ruger's stock sights suck so much. You could put a glowing beacon on the end of your barrel and they would still suck.
Click to expand...

That, and trying to decide whether to wear or not to wear my glasses.
 
Coyote33 said:
That, and trying to decide whether to wear or not to wear my glasses.
Click to expand...

Your focus should be on the front sight, so go with the set up that best allows you to focus 20"-30" in front of your face. Some guys have even measured the distance, gone to their optometrist and gotten a prescription designed specifically for that distance.
 

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