Zumbo Speaks on the NUGE board

[Admin]

http://nugeboard.tednugent.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/286904.html

The last few days have been an educational experience, to say the least. My ill-conceived inflammatory blog, as all of you now know, set off a firestorm that, I’m told, has never before been equaled. I’m not proud of that.
Let me say this at the outset. My words here are from the heart, and all mine. No one can censor me, and I answer to no one but myself. And I have no one to blame but myself. Outdoor Life, a magazine that I worked for full-time as Hunting Editor for almost 30 years, fired me yesterday. My TV show was cancelled yesterday. Many of my sponsors have issued statements on their website to sever all relationships. This may cause many of you to do backflips and dance in the streets, but, of course, I’m not laughing, nor am I looking for sympathy. I don’t want a pity party.

They say hindsight is golden. Looking back, I can’t believe I said the words “ban” and “terrorist” in the context that I did. I don’t know what I was thinking when I wrote that. I can explain this as sheer ignorance and an irresponsible use of words. What I’ve learned over the last few days has enlightened and amazed me. As a guy who hunts 200 days a year, does seminars on hunting, wrote for six hunting magazines, had a hunting TV show, and wrote 20 books on hunting, how could I have been so ignorant and out of touch with reality in the world of hunting and shooting?

But I was. I really can’t explain it, maybe because I just summarily dismissed the firearms in question in my mind when I saw them in magazines and catalogs. I saw one “black” firearm in a hunting camp in all my 50 years of hunting, and I shot one last year off a boat when fishing in Alaska. To tell the truth, it was fun and I enjoyed it immensely, but I never considered one for use in hunting. I have to tell you that I have had a revelation. I’m learning that many of my pals own AR-15’s and similar firearms and indeed use them for hunting. I was totally unaware that they were being used for legitimate hunting purposes. That is the absolute truth.

My biggest regret is not the financial impact of all this. I’m almost 67 and retirement is an option. The dreadful impact here is that I inadvertently struck a spear into the hearts of the people I love most…America’s gun owners. And, even though this huge cadre of dedicated people have succeeded in stripping me of my career, I hold no grudges. I will continue to stand as firm on pro hunting as I’ve ever done. But what’s different now is that I’ll do all I can to educate others who are, or were, as ignorant as I was about “black” rifles and the controversy that surrounds them. My promise to you is that I’ll learn all I can about these firearms, and by the time this week is out, I’ll order one. The NUGE has invited me to hunt with him using AR-15’s, and I’m eager to go, and learn. I’ll do all I can to spread the word.

I understand that many of you will not accept this apology, believing that the damage has been done and there’s no way to repair it. You have that right. But let me say this. I mentioned this above, and I’ll repeat it. I’m willing to seize this opportunity to educate hunters and shooters who shared my ignorance. If you’re willing to allow me to do that, we can indeed, in my mind, form a stronger bond within our ranks. Maybe in a roundabout way we can bring something good out of this.

Jim Zumbo

Reading this clip here...

I was totally unaware that they were being used for legitimate hunting purposes.

It's quite obvious he still thinks gun ownership is about hunting...

 

[EddieCoyle]

legitimate hunting purposes

The phrase (above) that he continues to use, bugs the livin' crap out of me. The use of the word "legitimate" in front of "hunting purposes" implies that those of us that own these rifles for non-hunting purposes are somehow "ilegitimate".

He still doesn't get it! This guy should just STFU. I'm glad he got fired and I hope he never works again.

EDIT: Derek beat me to it!

 

[sksguns]

he needs to go away.

 

[crak]

He's still talking about legitimate purposes.

 

[tele_mark]

I wonder if he'll consider the very last thing he'll most likely do with a gun to be a legitimate purpose....

 

[SnakeEye]

he still manages to essentially completely skirt the "terrorist" accusation..thats what annoys me, with no appology to the Armed forces and all the various federal and local law enforcement agencies who employ the AR platform on a daily basis.
if he hasnt made enough money in his gimme "profession" to retire comfortably and disappear than boo on him.. no sympathy here on that front..

 

[sksguns]

my "black" guns are no more deadly than any of my other guns...

so they auto feed....so what.....so does my tommy gun and that's not black.

 

[Wingwiper]

Ladies & Gentlemen

Lay down the Grudges and think for a moment. Here is a man who had Power when he ignorantly struck at us, as Black Gun owners. But......... He is still a man that the opposition will be watching and we need BACK on OUR SIDE.
Whether you all accept his newest apology or not, he could very well achive what he is hinting at doing and he could be become a very Strong Ally of ours. We could turn our backs on him and he could do that to us as well or we could show how decent of a "Terrorist" we really are and "FORGIVE" and allow him to educate some of the other INFLUENTAL IGNORANT.
The Damage has been done, but the damage could be easily UNDONE and I read an APOLOGY that I felt was really from his Heart, at 67 and after 30 years of BIG BUCKS, he surly doesn't need money. He really didn't even have to acknowledge us and could have taken his bitterness to hit us again and again, but HE DIDN"T. I say give him the chance but "TRUST BUT VERIFY"
I would rather have him on OUR side than have him join the BRADY BUNCH.......

What we should have ALL learned from this is really very simple... WE HAVE MORE POWER THAN WE HAD IMAGINED, let's be smart in how we use it. We accomplished his UNTHRONING without the help of the NRA... We did it as INDIVIDUALS, no one waited for someone else to do something, we all did something, we ALL got off of our lazy asses and we wrote emails etc and we all did it as INDIVIDUALS.

Good Job people, that is a Home Run for us and the Second Amendment and for ALL Gun Owners.

 

[Admin]

I say give him the chance but "TRUST BUT VERIFY"

Zumbo doesn't get it... He only approves of black rifles because he found out people use them for HUNTING.

 

[Wingwiper]

Derek

WHo cares why he approves of them, the point is "HE APPROVES OF THEM"

Reread my post, I did some editing

 

[sksguns]

What we should have ALL learned from this is really very simple... WE HAVE MORE POWER THAN WE HAD IMAGINED, let's be smart in how we use it. We accomplished his UNTHRONING without the help of the NRA... We did it as INDIVIDUALS

Good Job people, that is a Home Run for us and the Second Amendment and for ALL Gun Owners.

You bring up a very good point. I will think about it. I am half sicilian so I tend to hold grudges for a very long time if not forever... But I will carefully consider your words based on what you've stated in bold above....

 

[Admin]

I honestly think he only made that statement to salvage any money making chances he may get in the future. His blog was beyond ignorant...

 

[Wingwiper]

SKSGUNS

I too CUT DEEP and take a LONG TIME TO HEAL, but I also think I am smart enough to try and use every tool at my disposal to accomplish the Mission.


DEREK

He has felt the BITE of the BLACK GUN OWNERs do you really think he wants to feel that bite again?????? That is why I wroter TRUST BUT VERIFY

I do not know all the people responsible for this website, but you have something Extra to be PROUD of, this website without question had a bearing on what happened and it also has a bearing on what WILL happen. SEMPER FI

 

[drgrant]

Zumbo doesn't get it... He only approves of black rifles because he found out people use them for HUNTING.

The irony in that, too, is probably 75% of the flak he got is from people
with black rifles that rarely or almost never use them to hunt... you would
think that he would get a clue and at least worded his statement a little
differently. IMO if the nuge is smart, he'll try to impress this a bit
on zumbo. We can only pray for reprogramming, lol.

I hope that there is some positive overall effect.... even if only
indirectly. I can't imagine that he's the only fudd hunting writer
that has had such embedded anti leanings.

-Mike

 

[EddieCoyle]

WHo cares why he approves of them, the point is "HE APPROVES OF THEM"

I care. A lot. Here's why:

By saying that he approves of the AR (still no mention of the AK) because he has recently decided that it has "legitimate hunting purposes", his implication still is that any gun that he decides is not suitable for hunting, has no "legitimate" purpose. By extension one can only deduce that guns with no "legitimate" purpose must therefore only be useful for "illegitimate purposes" such as crime or terrorism.

It is significant for us because the anti's can say the following:

"Even the prominent long-time NRA member, hunting writer, and gun rights activist Jim Zumbo agrees that Gun X has no legitimate purpose. We at the Brady Campaign agree with Mr. Zumbo and call for the ban of this deadly weapon."

THE SECOND AMMENDMENT IS NOT ABOUT HUNTING! IT IS ABOUT FREEDOM!

 

[Admin]

Yup, the damage is already done.

 

[Scrivener]

I care. A lot. Here's why:

By saying that he approves of the AR (still no mention of the AK) because he has recently decided that it has "legitimate hunting purposes", his implication still is that any gun that he decides is not suitable for hunting, has no "legitimate" purpose. By extension one can only deduce that guns with no "legitimate" purpose must therefore only be useful for "illegitimate purposes" such as crime or terrorism.

It is significant for us because the anti's can say the following:

"Even the prominent long-time NRA member, hunting writer, and gun rights activist Jim Zumbo agrees that Gun X has no legitimate purpose. We at the Brady Campaign agree with Mr. Zumbo and call for the ban of this deadly weapon."

THE SECOND AMMENDMENT [sic] IS NOT ABOUT HUNTING! IT IS ABOUT FREEDOM!

PRECISELY ! Even now, with his SECOND apology, almost a week and thousands of posts regarding his errors later, he still does not "get it."

Ergo, whatever his present promises of "educating" his fellow Fudds, he is a tool of the anti-gunners. Hunting is IRRELEVANT to any analysis of the Second Amendment and any "education" he professes to do based on hunting subverts that Constitutional right.

Zumbo is an ignorant troglodyte and we - as in gun owners - cannot afford the luxury of his further mistakes as he stumbles around in search of enlightenment. He should go quietly and quickly.

 

[bpm990d]

I'm sure he is going to post his Nuge AR hunt on the American Hunters & Shooters Website.

He is a tool, but I'm sure he will get a golden parachute right into these guys hands.


B

 

[RKG]

There is, I respectfully submit, an additional lesson in all of this, on which all should focus and which has absolutely nothing to do with guns.

Once upon a time (and while it seems a long time ago, I was there), if you wanted to set your thoughts down on paper and get them published so that a wide spectrum of people might be able to read them, the process was long and arduous. Along the way, you'd write and then, some time later (after it had been typed or set in galleys), you'd read what you had written, and then you'd edit and, after another delay, read it again. There might be several rounds of this. Depending on the vehicle doing the publishing, there might be comments or questions from editors, which you'd have to ponder and to which you'd have to respond, and which, in the process of handling, might lead you to fine tune what you'd previously written.

By the time your work of art finally saw the light of published day, it had been pretty much cleansed of poor expression, poor thought and, most importantly of all, lack of thought.

Computers and the Internet have changed this radically. By definition, we are now all self-publishers. This means no useful pre-publication review that might expose that our proposed words didn't really express what we wanted to say. It means that what is published is more like a first draft than a polished work. It means that the time between first capture of thoughts into words and publication for all the world to see, read and, possibly, ridicule, is now measured in nanoseconds, not weeks and months. In the publishing world, this is a supernova of change.

Now, whether the "new" is better or worse than the "old" is fairly debatable. What is not debatable, though, and what is painfully depicted by L'Affair Zumbo (particularly if you take his most recent words as having some measure of sincerity (even if that sincerity is misguided in respect of firearms)), is that it is more important than it ever was to think before pressing the "Send" button.

When I was practicing law, I used to participate in a seminar that we sometimes put on for good clients, the title of which was (or would have been if we had been willing to give it a formal title), "How to Avoid Paying Outrageous [name of firm] Legal Fees." One of my rules was, "For anything more significant than confirming a lunch date, NEVER COMPOSE ON AN EMAIL PROGRAM." That is to say, for any bit of correspondence of any potential significance, it is OK to use the Internet to substitute for the Post Office, if you must, but don't use the brower or Outlook to substitute for the process of writing a draft (on a word processor), printing it out, letting it sit overnight, and then reading it carefully, critically, and often before sending.

 

[Cross-X]

Derek, until I read Z's blog, I had no idea that you could both be a decorated Marine and a terrorist. (evil grin)

That guy needs to retire to a rocking chair and lament his utter ignorance of the firearm many of the rest of us own, know and love.

Darius

 

[EddieCoyle]

He's a crappy gun writer but I did like him as the manager in The Natural.

Well you're better than any player I ever had. And you're the best God damn hitter I ever saw. Suit up.

 

[dd]

I am still trying to digest all aspects of the Zumbo Debacle. However, recent posts here are directly on the money in saying that 1) He still does not get IT!, and 2) That it is NOT about hunting, it is about FREEDOM!

BUT, having a person with decades of hunting and shooting in is resume remain a pro-gun person is, IMHO, much better than driving him fully into the Brady Camp. Let us, then, try to expand his education into these areas where we feel it is lacking rather than continuing the attack. Further, let us take this opportunity to educate many other gun owners or hunters who have no idea “what all the fuss is about?’ And there are MANY of them. As the old saying goes, if all you got is lemons, make lemonade.

 

[sksguns]

I am still trying to digest all aspects of the Zumbo Debacle. However, recent posts here are directly on the money in saying that 1) He still does not get IT!, and 2) That it is NOT about hunting, it is about FREEDOM!

BUT, having a person with decades of hunting and shooting in is resume remain a pro-gun person is, IMHO, much better than driving him fully into the Brady Camp. Let us, then, try to expand his education into these areas where we feel it is lacking rather than continuing the attack. Further, let us take this opportunity to educate many other gun owners or hunters who have no idea “what all the fuss is about?’ And there are MANY of them. As the old saying goes, if all you got is lemons, make lemonade.

wingwiper had some great points as do you but after thinking about it and what he orginally said i think he is already on the Brady Campaign. For him to be in a shooting sport all these years and not realize what he said was totally ignorant of the meaning of the second ammendment makes me sick.

I'm sorry....I have to much sicilian in my blood to forgive this one.....he was never pro 2nd....he is only pro-fenced in animal hunting.

 

[Scrivener]

For him [Zumbo] to be in a shooting sport all these years and not realize what he said was totally ignorant of the meaning of the second ammendment [sic] makes me sick.

I'm sorry....I have to much sicilian in my blood to forgive this one.....he was never pro 2nd....he is only pro-fenced in animal hunting.

Correct. Dumbo Zumbo is just another ignorant, short-sighted Fudd.

 

[tele_mark]

I'm sure that what we saw on the internet with Zumbo is exactly what slapped Deval into spin-control -- just look at that anti-Deval blog on Boston.com!

Wonder how long until our masters turn their attention away from our guns long enough to deal with the real threat to them?

 

[Joe R.]

My thoughts...

This may or may not let you look into the person of who I am but here it goes...

1) Zumbo OODA loop wasn't working the day he made the comments in his blog on EBR's. I believe his years and beliefs came out that day with no filters or nothing turned on. His comments were trite and straight to the point: EBR's have no place on the hunting field and should be banned and anybody owning one is a terrorist. Not very pretty if you're like me and own a few black rifles. He basically slapped everyone who owns one of these rifles in the face.

2) As Derek pointed out, and my take on it too, is that even after 2 chances for an apology - HE STILL THINKS THAT HUNTING IS THE ONLY LEGITIMATE USE FOR FIREARMS! Sorry guys and girls, that is a Fudd remark of someone that has lost sight of his roots and history. Yes, he has "been there, done that " with the hunting part of life for over 30+ years and you give him some respect for that. Notice I said some, not alot. Damn, he went on hunts to places that only a person with some disposable income and 4+ weeks of vacation get to do. I would forget my roots after being treated that way for awhile too. Still though all he knows is hunting ( as all I know is shooting )... would I trust him after this little episode? Probably not... at least not without someone near him that can nudge him in the right way when he steps off of the path.

3) Amazing speed that just a few words made it around the 'Net so fast and a persons livelyhood was squashed quiclkly over a holiday weekend. Too bad we couldn't do this to a few Congresscritters...

4) Micheal Bane's site has brought up an interesting side consiquence to this episode. The shooting world seems to revolve around hunting stuff but this years SHOT show brought on that " shooters " may be the up and coming consumer for a companies products. Maybe a discussion of why might be fun to go over one day but I bet I buy more ammo than the average hunter does in a couple of years or more. Why cater just to them? Remington has tried to tap into that market recently with a few items but why not go further? The Gun Room ( save the groans for later! ) has a Remington 700 PSS in 6.8SPC. Why not do alittle more work and put a Badger oversize bolt handle on it and save me the time doing it. I don't know of many hunters that would buy that rifle for around here - they can't use it for hunting in MA. Still, you get the point.

5) It all boils down, at least for me, that this could be a uniting incident or another dividing incident. Bottom line for me - the 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting! Any person or group that make noises that go against that is a group that I won't help after my stuff is gone. We all need to be on the same page on this. We have 2 examples of what the anti's are trying to do and the evidence is pretty clear that they just didn't stop with EBR's - they went for the whole group. Read - learn - understand and make others understand too.

Joe R.

 

[SnakeEye]

this is probobly the best thing that could happen to all of the respective sponsors of zumbo.
The industry complains that their loosing numbers every year, well nows the perfect time to get someone who appeals to the 18-35 demographic in there and put a new face on hunting and sport shooting..
sounds like a great opportunity for some young charismatic soul.

 

[Erebus]

My promise to you is that I’ll learn all I can about these firearms, and by the time this week is out, I’ll order one.

He has learned at least one lesson this week. He can learn more. Don't write him off because he didn't come completely around in one week. Keep the lessons coming his way and maybe we will see the complete turnaround we all desire from him in time. We know that Nuge gets it. Hopefully he can help Zumbo take the next step.

There are a lot of Fudds that hate EBRs with a passion. He apparently was one. He took a big step(whether he wanted to or not) in a short time. Give the "old dog" some time to learn new tricks.

Personally I'm hopeful. If he comes around he could be a great ambassador between us and the Fudds. Speaking of 'Fudds', if we hope for unification with the hunting crowd we should stop using terms like 'Fudd'. We would be a hell of a lot stronger if we could get them active on 2A issues like we are and someone needs to bridge the gap. With the election of '08 coming up this may be the opportunity that we need to be able to make a real difference with the pols. We know the Bradys want to take every firearm in the country. Hunters don't seem to understand that. They didn't get it in Britain and Australia until it was too late. We need their numbers to save our EBRs and they need our numbers to save their hunting guns whether they know it now or not. Maybe if we and the Nuge can open Zumbo's eyes he maybe able to help us open their eyes.

 

[Scrivener]

Micheal Bane's site has brought up an interesting side consiquence [sic] to this episode. The shooting world seems to revolve around hunting stuff but this years SHOT show brought on that " shooters " may be the up and coming consumer for a companies products. Maybe a discussion of why might be fun to go over one day but I bet I buy more ammo than the average hunter does in a couple of years or more.

BINGO!

I'll go one step further: Shooters subsidize hunters.

I send more bullets downrange at one match than the hunters I talk to BUY in a year. Every time I buy ammo or guns, MY money pays for THEIR hunting land (Pittman-Robertson Act), yet I've never held a hunting license in my life and probably never will.

Note that I don't mind my subsidizing the purchase of wildlife habitat; I think it's a good use of the money. But NON-hunting shooters PAY for hunting land.

We also pay for defending THEIR guns, though most hunters do diddly in their own interests and would happily sell out ours. This is true of the shooting community at large; NRA membership is always a minute fraction of the supposed gun-owning population. With hunters, however, this becomes even more pronounced.

In short, the days of the "hunter" being the backbone of the gun-owning community is fading fast. The hunters' own wilfull ignorance, inertia and short-sightedness simply hastens their demise.

I wouldn't care, but they take the rest of us down with them.

 

[drgrant]

Personally I'm hopeful. If he comes around he could be a great ambassador between us and the Fudds. Speaking of 'Fudds', if we hope for unification with the hunting crowd we should stop using terms like 'Fudd'. We would be a hell of a lot stronger if we could get them active on 2A issues like we are and someone needs to bridge the gap.

IMO in many cases that's purely wishful thinking. Many of these people
would be the first to "turn in their guns for the state mandated
coupons" if/when the black vans come around.

Their level of apathy is also high because they know that even if
the US goes "eurotrash" that hunting will still be legal in some
manner or another. The problem is they know that they're not high
priority targets on the gun banner food chain... and most of them could
live within whatever rules exist because they're only sundry
hunters. (eg, deer a year with BP muzzleloader or whatever) While
I agree that some hunters may have some forethought that invariably
their hobby will get destroyed by PC BS, few of them link that forethought
and its relationship to gun rights, because there's still a degree of separation
between "gun rights" and "hunting". Although related they're not one in
the same. Few connect the dots that losing gun rights also wears down
the defensive barriers surrounding hunting's viability.

That being said... you are right... there are some that are out there
that could help us... and these are guys that mostly have "the clue" but
may not know how much their rights are threatened. (ex- undoubtedly
there are plenty of people, hunters and not, that own AR-15s but
don't really pay attention to rights issues. ) One of the "down"
sides of free states is the lack of impingement on rights, oddly enough,
encourages complacency with those rights. (eg, taking them for
granted because they've never been stepped on before. ) These guys
haven't had the "massachusetts experience" of having to endure hot
spikes through the nads in order to even own guns. Can you imagine
what the gun rights movement would be like, if every halfway decent
gun owner knew how BAD this shit is? Some just disregard MA as
some sort of aberrance, which is mostly true, but they also need to take it
as a warning sign... eg, if you elect shitty pols, you WILL get -this-.

I'm surprised that the NRA hasn't made a documentary film about places
like MA, CA, NJ, IL, etc. about the consequences of terrible gun
laws and the real effect they have on ones rights.

-Mike