Zumbo Responds to Sen. Carl Levin

[Jose]

Lets wait and see how Levin twist Zumbo's most recent letter. Then we'll get a feel for how well he's doing for "the cause".

Antis have twisted other people's words as well in the past. Should we say nothing because someone, somewhere will msirepresent what we say?

You've made your point that you still dislike Zumbo and are unwilling to give him any credit for trying to make ammends.

Nothing to see here, move along.............

 

[Erebus]

With out the initial public exposure of the rift and its deservedly harsh response, Mr. Zambo would likely still believe that EBRs have no place in hunting. And would unlikely be making any effort to close that gap he was (is?) so much a part of.

Wasn't that the point of the outcry? To teach him a lesson. Like the point of a spanking is to teach a child a lesson on what they did wrong.

If someone who is illiterate goes to school and learns to read and write, are they to still be considered illiterate?

Oh and it's Zumbo with a 'U'.

 

[TomH]

sksguns: my guess is they'll ignore the letter altogether

 

[LoginName]

sksguns: my guess is they'll ignore the letter altogether

I don't know whom Zumbo sent the letter to, but he should send it to his Senator and have him read before Congress so it'll be entered in the Congressional Record. May not mean much, but at least it'll become public record.

 

[sksguns]

Antis have twisted other people's words as well in the past. Should we say nothing because someone, somewhere will msirepresent what we say?

You've made your point that you still dislike Zumbo and are unwilling to give him any credit for trying to make ammends.

Nothing to see here, move along.............

Oh, now I can't re-state my opinion? I never stated i didn't like what he said and I am on record for why. But I have every right to voice my opinion again in regard to this latest letter.

Who made you the NES police?

 

[bpm990d]

I hope that Zumbo can find a new job as a lobbyist. The mere fact that he has not jumped ship to American Hunters and Shooters (which would have loved to have a crucified by EBR owners & the NRA victim) means that he knows he screwed up and wants to try and mitigate the disaster. I think he can be a very powerful force if he sets out to fix his own transgression. A guilty conscience to motivate people to go above and beyond.

Wasn't it Paul of Tarsus that persecuted Christians before he had a transformation and became one of their greatest apostles?

He seems to be trying to fix things.

B

 

[Erebus]

sksguns: my guess is they'll ignore the letter altogether

Unless someone reads it into the congressional record that's exactly what will happen.

I don't know whom Zumbo sent the letter to, but he should send it to his Senator and have him read before Congress so it'll be entered in the Congressional Record. May not mean much, but at least it'll become public record.

I hope he sent it to everyone in the Senate, I would think at least one of them would read it into the record.

 

[Erebus]

Wasn't it Paul of Tarsus that persecuted Christians before he had a transformation and became one of their greatest apostles?

Yep Saul became Paul with a 180 degree about face. Took a real spanking to do it but some people learn hard.

 

[jkelly]

Quote:
With out the initial public exposure of the rift and its deservedly harsh response, Mr. Zambo would likely still believe that EBRs have no place in hunting. And would unlikely be making any effort to close that gap he was (is?) so much a part of.

Wasn't that the point of the outcry? To teach him a lesson. Like the point of a spanking is to teach a child a lesson on what they did wrong.---Erebus

Recap to get back on track:
My point was that the public exposure of the rift between we “Hunters” and the “Sport Shooters” beliefs, was the single most important thing that came out of that Mr. Zumbo’s (thank you for the spelling correction) transgression against the 2nd amendment.

You suggested that is was his efforts to close that gap that was the more/most important result.

I disagreed explaining with out the public exposure and it’s deservedly hard response that Mr. Zumbo would still likely believe that EBRs have no place in hunting and therefore there would be no effort on his behalf to close the exposed gap.


My Argument:
My thought is that, with out the exposure of the rift there would have been no harsh response (the point of the harsh response is irrelevant to this argument and to be left to the hundreds or thousands that responded. Beating your child is even less relevant.).

With out the harsh response Mr. Zumbo would not likely have seen the “light”, for whatever reason he did, and therefore he would have made no effort to close the gap.

Therefore as I first posted

…the most important single thing to come from Mr. Zambo’s transgression against the 2nd Amendment is the exposure of the rift between the “Hunters” and the “Sport Shooters” and their beliefs.---jkelly

Respectfully,

jkelly

 

[Erebus]

My point was that the public exposure of the rift between we “Hunters” and the “Sport Shooters” beliefs, was the single most important thing that came out of that Mr. Zumbo’s (thank you for the spelling correction) transgression against the 2nd amendment.

I see your point now and agree. Whether the anti's can use that to divide us further or people like Zumbo can close it is yet to be seen. My position about him closing it will only be relevant if he is successful and the antis fail to exploit it toward their ends. Otherwise all it did was expose a possibly exploitable "wart".

I like to stay optimistic and think that he will prove to be a great asset to our cause, and a net gain over all.

Beating your child is even less relevant.

Who said anything about beating children? Perhaps we shouldn't go there, it would be rather OT.

 

[jkelly]

Who said anything about beating children? Perhaps we shouldn't go there, it would be rather OT. ---Erebus

Agreed!


Respectfully,

jkelly

 

[Wingwiper]

Zumbo has more Balls than most here. He could have easily dissappeared with his millions and just slipped into a nice retirement. No! He has done more since he had a VERBAL slip than most on these boards have done in their lifetimes to save or rather protect the second. His letter has been read by how many thousands? and will be read by how many more thousands? Levin thought he had leverage to attack the Second and Mr Zumbo stripped him of that leverage and actually turned it against him. We are the people that matter.
We all can sit and judge people, that is so easy to do but ACTION speaks louder than words and the Letter from Zumbo is only one action and an action that speaks louder than anything any of us has ever done. To continue to shun Mr Zumbo when he has raised the White Flag and has given us NO REASON to doubt his attentions is childish and non productive for the protection of the Second. We can dwell on his verbal slippage and contend he was an EVIL ANTI GUN person when in FACT he was not. He was Pro Gun and had casually included a limitation on the Pro Gun and I have too and many here have. I would NOT allow owning an RPG,106mm Recoiless or a 3.5" Rocket Launcher to fall under the Second. He felt through IGNORANCE and only IGNOREANCE that AR-15s should be in a seperate category. He has been corrected, he has admitted he was wrong and he has accepted the firearms as being acceptable now, what do some of you want? his first born?

 

[Jose]

Oh, now I can't re-state my opinion? I never stated i didn't like what he said and I am on record for why. But I have every right to voice my opinion again in regard to this latest letter.

Who made you the NES police?

 

[Patriot]

I find it hard not to like this guy. He made an error, rights it, talks about it,
and some people can't forgive. It's not my nature. Welcome back to the
fold Zum!

TBP

 

[calsdad]

He's in a very unique position to change the opinions and bring the light to many hunters who don't care about other gun rights. If he can help even a few fudds see the larger picture he is a valuable ally. All of the attacks from people here and gun owners everywhere to his post have done their job: convinced him that he was wrong and made him look into the issue more. Wasn't that the goal of boycotting him and his sponsers, etc? Or did you just enjoy bashing on him for personal pleasure? Take the victory and roll with it, the war on Zumbo was a win. The same strategy could be used to turn many people, including politicians if enough people are for the cause. I'd rather see them educated and converted than to hate them forever and have them be against my rights.

-Tom

+1

While I have to admit I did derive some amount of personal satisfaction from giving Zumbo a beatdown - it was only because it is rare occurence that we are actually able to take somebody who expresses an anti gun stance as ill-informed as his - and make them suffer for it.

The fact that Zumbo is out there stumping for gun owners rights must be a plus - if having Zumbo up on Capitol Hill deriding idiots like Levin is such a bad thing, I have to ask - is anybody else doing it? Is Zumbo standing in line behind all of the other pro-gun advocates to voice his opinion or is he the only one up there? If he is one of the few up there standing up for our rights - and admitting his mistake - then in my mind our little internet blanket party achieved more than we could ever have hoped for. If Zumbo can convince the Fudds that legislation like HR1022 is going to affect them also - then that is even better - this whole incident is turning out good for us - don't blow it.

Now we need to find a few more people to smack around.

 

[sksguns]

you all want to buy into his BS go right ahead. He screwed you once. He'll do it again.

Enjoiy.

 

[Wingwiper]

SKS

You have no proof it is B.S. and you most certainly have no reason to beleive he will do it again. How can you even begin to judge a man's integerty by a reference to Black Guns? He never screwed me, he may have misunderstood the Ar-15 and firearms like it, but that isn't screwing me, if anything I screwed him. I am still employed, he is not. Yet as the smoke clears away, he stands more on our side than many who claim to be on our side. TBP and Calsdad said it as well as several others. You are declaring War against some one who is NOT your enemy.

 

[sksguns]

I'm not declaring war against him. I'm just not as forgiving as the rest of you and I don't trust him. He burned that bridge. It will take a lot more than a letter to build it back up again.

I'm interested to see the outcome of this and how far he is willing to go.....should be interesting.

 

[jkelly]

you all want to buy into his BS go right ahead. He screwed you once.---sksguns

There is no doubt about Mr. Zumbo’s transgression against the 2nd Amendment and I can understand how you see that as “screwing us”. And I don’t think anyone with even a small bit reason thinks we are better off then before the Zumbo statement.

I can see how those who own “Terrorist” rifles (I don’t own one, as I’m a FUD, but I do want to) might be just a “little” put off by Mr. Zumbo linking then with mass murders and the like. I think that’s not something most of us want to hear, perhaps especially those who have actually spent time battling terrorists (not I).

I can also understand how those who want to see Mr. Zumbo’s epiphany as evidence of testicular mass either large or small as that person may wish. I assume that no one on this forum has actual PERSONAL knowledge, but if they do then of course I defer to them.

But sksguns I don’t think (and it’s no more then an uneducated guess) that Mr. Zumbo will “screw” us again as it is simply not in his best interest. The man may have been ignorant of some major gun issues, which is confusing to me, but he is no fool.

But no, I don't trust him either!



Respectfully,

jkelly

 

[Mattitude]

Zumbo sure turned around pretty quick and went to pretty much the most high profile outspoken sprortsman (Ted Nugent). I absolutely hated what he said in his original blog post and, to me, he only tried to save his own ass by "seeing the light"...it sounded like he just seen Jesus or something...and all of a sudden noticing that "terrorist" rifles aren't just that. If he has millions, then I would expect to see him traveling around the country and possibly even showing up in Congress to defend his words and not just sending a letter. He has the money and it would make much more of an impact. His letter to Congress has as much impact as me posting here. I won't be convinced of his Jesus sighting until I hear of the Zumbo USA tour and lecture series w/a stop in DC.

 

[Pilgrim]

sksguns, you didn't respond to my question about the S&W 'agreement'.

 

[sksguns]

sksguns, are you also against S&W for 'the agreement'?

BTW, there is no 'reverence' here. Just embracing anyone who is for our cause.

I don't own any S&W guns.

 

[Pilgrim]

I don't own any S&W guns.

good answer

 

[kevin9]

you all want to buy into his BS go right ahead. He screwed you once. He'll do it again.

Enjoiy.

sksguns, I sincerely hope you never make a mistake. Other peoples' shoes can be very uncomfortable when you have to wear them the rest of your life.

It will take a lot more than a letter to build it back up again.

I'm just curious, what would it take for you to forgive Mr. Zumbo?

 

[Pilgrim]

I'm just curious, what would it take for you to forgive Mr. Zumbo?

He doesn't own any S&W guns.

 

[FPrice]

sksguns, I sincerely hope you never make a mistake. Other peoples' shoes can be very uncomfortable when you have to wear them the rest of your life.

+1.

I suppose that the righteous could banish everyone who ever makes a mistake or commits a transgression and never ever forgive them. Then the last two pure defenders of the RKBA could look at each other one day and wonder where all of their guns went.

 

[LoginName]

+1.

I suppose that the righteous could banish everyone who ever makes a mistake or commits a transgression and never ever forgive them. Then the last two pure defenders of the RKBA could look at each other one day and wonder where all of their guns went.

I forgive Zumbo more than that draft-dodging asshat Ted Nugent.

At least Zumbo owed up to his mistake... when is Nugent going to own up for his?

 

[RKG]

sksguns, are you also against S&W for 'the agreement'?

BTW, there is no 'reverence' here. Just embracing anyone who is for our cause.

Without taking a position on any of the other issues subsumed in this thread, I do think that the situation with the S&W - City of Boston "agreement is a bit different." The "agreement" was an action, and abrogating the agreement was an action. Even if one believed that S&W abrogated the agreement for insincere reasons and only in the face of the reaction of the gun owners, abrogating the agreement had consequences beyond merely uttering some words.

Let me say again: I'm not taking a position on whether Mr. Zumbo should be forever shunned or be entitled to rehabilitation; I'm saying only that the his situation and the S&W situation are not perfect parallels.

 

[jkelly]

I suppose that the righteous could banish everyone who ever makes a mistake or commits a transgression and never ever forgive them. Then the last two pure defenders of the RKBA could look at each other one day and wonder where all of their guns went.---FPrice

I don’t think that not forgiving Zumbo for his transgression against the 2nd Amendment equates to banishing everyone for any mistake and to suggest as much is ludicrous. And of course the rest of your argument is then moot.

Respectfully,

jkelly

 

[sksguns]

sksguns, I sincerely hope you never make a mistake. Other peoples' shoes can be very uncomfortable when you have to wear them the rest of your life.

I'm just curious, what would it take for you to forgive Mr. Zumbo?

What would it take for you to forgive someone who raped a close family member of yours? They did their time and seem to be rehabilitated......would you forgive him? Do you think that is a mistake or a premeditated act?

I don't believe Zumbo made a mistake. I believe he made a miscalculation and didn't anticipate the firestorm he ultimately created.


I believe in a higher power although I am not a religious man and as such I am not a very forgiving man. Not that this thread is about Zumbo's first blog I wonder why a man who has been in the hunting a firearms industries for so long could make such a stupid blunder. Could someone supposedly as knowledgeable about firearms and the struggles gun owners are going through to maintain their constitutional right to keep and bear arms be that blind as to make such a mis-statement?

I say NO!!! He was trying to use his position as a knowledgeble and time tested hunter and sportsman to make a statement about the evils of military style firearms. It backfired in a huge way. I know he didn't expect that response. And as such he jumped on the bike and back pedaled his little 300+ pound ass off to right the wrong he so arrogantly committed. I used "arrogantly" because I feel there was nothing ingnorant about his intent.

His first blog wasn't a mistake. You don't write such a well planned letter and then call it a mistake.

I will forgive a mistake. This was not. There was deliberate ill intent to harm owners of military style firearms behind his original blog.