zeroing for dummys needed

[roux]

OK so I really have no clue what I am doing when it comes to zeroing a rifle. I have been reading earlier posts and it seems quite complicated. I may be making too much of it or I need to keep reading til I get it. I am going to do an appleseed this weekend and want to have some clue beforehand. No one ever taught me how to shoot rifles without a scope so I am hoping the appleseed will be a good start

I took my 10/22 put tech sights on it. Made some adjustments at 50 ft with it resting on my range bag. Made adjustments to the front sight till every shot was consistently in the middle of the target horizontally as well as vertically. Took the rifle outside and made some shots at the 25 yard range and while I was on the paper mostly in the center of the target there were no real groups. I made some adjustments to the front sight but not much changed. Unlike pistol shooting where I would be aiming at the hole from my first shot with the front sight, with rifles I can not even see where my first shot went. The front sight takes up the whole entire bullseye. Either way, this could be me as a bad shot or the rifle is not zeroed, not sure. I really need the bare bones starting point and how to go from there.

I bought an optics ready smith ar15 some time ago with the intentions of putting a scope on it down the road. I bought some magpul flipup sights just to have something on it. Unlike the 10/22 where I can put all ten shots within the target, I dont think I can hit the broadside of a barn with the ar. I shot the ar from a benchrest and could not get it on the paper. I messed with the front sight and tried to center the rear sight but still no go.

I am hopeful the appleseed will clear up some of my issues but any help would be greatly appreciated. Remember this needs to be for a rifle rookie

 

[RichM]

If you can put the shots into the bull at 50 ft, you're probably close enough to take it to an Appleseed. They will work with you to achieve a good stance, a good sight picture, and a good trigger pull. Those improvements will help you to make tight enough "groups" to refine your zero. The Appleseed instructors will help you with that as well, and they have "Zero Targets" to get you set up. They will also explain MOA and "sight (or scope) clicks" so that you'll be able to take what you've learned and zero your AR.

 

[BossHarley]

One of the skills that helps zero'ing an iron sighted rifle (or any firearm) is the ability to 'call your shots'. That means that when you fire the shot, you have awareness of where the alignment of the sights was actually. This will help you discount shots that were made without good alignment. The appleseed will help. Also shooting with a spotting scope or binoculars will let you see each shot.

Good luck this weekend.

 

[Jose]

If you can put the shots into the bull at 50 ft, you're probably close enough to take it to an Appleseed.

+1

Get it back on paper at 50 yards and leave it alone. You go to training to learn, so let them teach you.

 

[LKB3rd]

I agree, that if you get it sighted in at 50 feet, at least you will have the windage (left to right) adjustment correct, and getting it zero'ed at 25 meters should be pretty simple. A lot of the first half of the first day is spent zeroing, and learning how to zero, your rifle. You'll have a good weekend and learn a lot. What you need to do at distances where you can't see the holes, is to choose a hold point for the front sight, and shoot your whole group using the exact same hold point. When you can get a discernible group, you move the group to the bullseye by continuing to use the same hold, and adjusting the sights.

 

[Deer_KiLLer]

thats about as good as it gets untill skill improves.

its not bad either rookie, id consider hitting the pie at 50 great for a rookie, don't down yourself on not grouping. it will shrink right down with some good training. leave the sights alone for now.

its you thats for shure not your sights you sighted it good it sounds. go to appleseed they will help on sighting you in and then you can sight your rifle more.

 

[yanici]

The following link has a lot of useful info for folks who are new to sighting in a gun. It explains bullet trajectory and why the bullet crosses zero in elevation twice when fired. Anyway, I'll just let the DEMO show you. Even though it is an airgun site all the principles apply to powder burners also. Just scroll down and learn.
http://www.arld1.com/

 

[mac1911]

I have been wanting to go to a appleseed shoot for a while. They are always on weekends that are filled with other plans. Personally I would go with a clear mind and let them teach you.
It is not a match but a opportunity to learn the basics.

 

[roux]

cool, as long as I am close I am sure the appleseed will give me the info I need thanks guys

 

[jar]

As others have said, as long as you're on the paper, the Appleseed instructors will teach you how to do the rest.

 

[rep308]

The most important part for me is to write down any adjustments on paper. I can't tell you how many times I've made an adjustment, taken a shot and then thought "did I turn it right or left?" Now I keep written track, sounds stupid but it works for me.

 

[ShadeWPI]

Here's some advice for zeroing a firearm

1) If using a scope, level the scope.

Tie a weight on a highly visible string (black on white background or neon masonry twine work well) This will provide a verticle reference to align the verticle line in your scope. Hang it then bench rest/sandbag the rifle and get it as level (right to left) as possible and adjust the scope to align to the verticle string. This will make sure your windage and elevation adjustments are as accurate as possible (and don't adjust one another along the way)

2) Bore Sight

There are a couple of ways to do this and many many tools to help. I'll offer a few that I've used and work.

A) In Chamber Laser - While it's one of the more expensive, it's also the fastests. Several companies make cartriage shaped laser units that are slid into the chamber and project a dot on the paper. If you set your sights to the dot at 25 yards, you'll be close enough to get the rounds on the paper when you're shooting. If you don't have 25 yards measure the height of the scope center from the barrel center and place 2 dots that far appart on a wall. Place a 3rd dot in the middle the same percentage down from the first dot as your distance is from 25 yards (if you're 25 feet, put the middle dot 1/3 of the way down) Place the laser on the bottom dot then adjust the cross-hairs / sight to the middle dot. You'll be close to bore sighted at 25 yards.

B) Magnet - There are some commercial versions available, but you can make your own as well. Measure the bore center to scope center spacing and place two marks on a bar magnet that fat apart. Stick the magnet to the muzzle of the rifle and align the bottom mark. Adjust the sights to the top mark. This places the line of sight parallel to the center line of the bore. Next click the sights UP (move point of impact up) 4x the distance from the center of bore to center of scope (If the sights are 2" above the bore, click up 8" at 100 yards) This will bore sight at 25 yards. - This is very hard to do with higher power scopes since they don't focus well at the muzzle

C) Laser Pointer - If you have a laser pointer, carefully hold it to the top of the barrel (the contout of the barrel should cause it to drop) and follow the in chamber laser directions. Take measurements from the laser pointer rather than the center of the bore. Be careful that the laser pointer is aligned right to left carefully.

3) Printing "groups"

Once the rifle is bore sighted, get a couple of larger targets (Presentation Poster Board works well) and with a wide marker and straight edge, draw a cross at the center. Draw smaller crosses with a thinner marker in each quadrant (quarter). It can help to add "ticks" on the crosses each 1"

A) Place the target at the desired range.
B) Sandbag the rifle and adjust it so the sights are on the center cross
C) Either use a spotting scope or walk out and measure the center of the 3 shots to the vertical and horizontal lines (seperate measurements - Note if the point of Impact needs to go UP/DOWN or RIGHT/LEFT)
D) Adjust the scope in 1 axis at a time (Up/Down or Right/Left)
E) Repeat B, C and D for the other axis.
F) Move the point of Aim to the Upper Left quadrent cross
G) Fire 5 shots at the upper left quadrent cross
H) Repeat for each cross, Lower Left, Lower Right, Upper Right
I) Compare the centers of all 4 5-shot groups. If they are ALL in the same direction (Right/Left or Up/Down) average the 4 distances and make the opposite adjustment to the sights (sights are marked as how they move point of impact not point of aim) If the center of a group is not always in the same direction (3 right and 1 left, etc) don't try to make adjustments.


As your shooting improves and groups tighten, you can repeat the process and refine your zero.

 

[dwarven1]

Roux, if you're on paper at 25 yards, don't sweat any further corrections. We'll be showing you how to sight it in on Saturday morning. It's far more important to get you to shoot tight groups... and once we've done that we can teach you how to adjust your sights.

Oh, one more thing... I hope you used blue Loc-Tite to mount your Tech-Sights. If not, go unscrew the screws, Loc-Tite them and re-install. Please trust me when I tell you that this is the MOST important step in the whole process.

Mac1911, here is the Appleseed schedule for the rest of the year. Pick a shoot and we'll see you there. We'll have shoots at Harvard this weekend, August 22-23, October 23-24, and December 11-12. There'll be a shoot in Mansfield in September, as well as one in Leyden, MA. Watch the Appleseed sub-forum here on NES for further developments.

 

[ShadeWPI]

Oh, one more thing... I hope you used blue Loc-Tite to mount your Tech-Sights. If not, go unscrew the screws, Loc-Tite them and re-install. Please trust me when I tell you that this is the MOST important step in the whole process.

Seconded.

Precision (one of the fundemental components of accuracy) is all about repeatability. If the screws can move, the sight can move and repeatability will be poor and everything else will follow.