WWI era 1911 refinishing project

terraformer

terraformer

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That got your attention... [wink]
So, before we start, I purchased this gun for $300 and the historical value had already been destroyed many, many years ago. Apparently, someone wanted Patton's pearl handles and nickel finished this gun and put fake ivory plastic handles on it.
Here is what it looked like when I bought it.

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You will notice the chipping of the nickel finish and the general overall condition of the finish is poor at best. I shot the gun and it runs fine. Accurate as I would expect from the gun as well.

The serial number is a colt US Govt 276xxx which denotes a 1918 mfg and was a std issue to the Army. So it was originally parkerized in 1918. The inspector cartouche was J.M. Gilbert which is found on Colt 1911s from 1917 to 1918 SN 230,001 to 302,000. The Property of the US Government stamp was filled and polished over which is common with mid century refinishing of former US army 1911.

So, tonight I stripped it down.

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In the shop I knew that nickel can be stripped. So I jumped at the chance to purchase this.

The four parts on the blue shop towel are the ones that will get refinished. I have not decided what type of finish yet. I am up for suggestions but the obvious options are some sort of parkerized finish, electroless nickel, or ceracote.

My only concern is featured in this last pic. You will note the top screw well in the frame has popped out. I will have to have this fixed before getting it refinished. I am hoping it is "fixable" given these are not welded like in modern 1911s but staked. The screw well is stripped but the threads in the frame are savable. My concern is where I will find a replacement screw well...

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I will post more as it comes.
 

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Sounds like a cool project Tom, I have found that you get the most enjoyment out of a gun that you have fixed up yourself. Can't wait to see the finished gun so we can hit the range.
 
One thing to note, I am not trying to refurb this back to a collectors piece or somehow make it show worthy. I would buy a blued 1911 and stuff it in a display box if I wanted that. I want to be able to carry and occasionally shoot this one. I want to bring it back to life if you will.

I am having a bear of a time trying to decide with a bluing, a parkerizing/coating or just redoing the nickel with electroless nickel after stripping it. My issue is getting a consistent look. As you will see in the pic above, there is bluing on the mag release, the safety and just about every part other than the slide, the backstrap, the frame and the front bushing. All of the pins are blued and you can see it in the pics.

Now, if I go with nickel again or anything other than bluing I will need to coat those bits as well. I can blue the gun and it will then match the other bits. Any type of ceracote/parkerizing will fill in the gaps and probably cover over the monogram and the prancing horse.

So I think my only two choices are bluing and electroless nickel. Can I nickel coat the various small parts and the barrel to make it all work? Any pros and cons between the two? Am I missing an option?
 
Tom can the stripped insert be heli-coiled?

I'd go with blueing, it's a good compromise finish, kind of a modern update on the old classic.

[jealous]It's going to look awesome when it's done, man, what a steal [/jealous] [rofl]
 
Mike S said:
Tom can the stripped insert be heli-coiled?

I'd go with blueing, it's a good compromise finish, kind of a modern update on the old classic.

[jealous]It's going to look awesome when it's done, man, what a steal [/jealous] [rofl]
Click to expand...

What is heli-coiled?
 
terraformer said:
What is heli-coiled?
Click to expand...

it's a press in pre-threaded insert. Should work perfect for that application, ask a smithy about it, might be something that Colt Fan could handle as well, bike shop guys do that kind of thing from time to time.
 
OK a few errors in your thinking,sorry. If the frame is stripped(grip bushing)that can be re tapped with a slightly oversized bushing.Brownell's sells them. Parkerizing adds no coating to the gun- it is in the metal. Cerakote is very thin as is hard chrome. Nickel or Chrome will add a thick layer of material which will clog engraved detail. For Cerakote you apply this over the Parkerizing. Greg
 
terraformer said:
The serial number is a colt US Govt 276xxx which denotes a 1918 mfg and was a std issue to the Army. So it was originally parkerized in 1918.
Click to expand...

I think you may be incorrect in thinking that this pistol came parkerized. I did a little research (1911's are something I am very interested in) about the original finish for Colt 1911s of this period. It seems that the finish for this serial number was the Colt "Brushed Blue" finish (U.S. Pistols & Revolvers 1909-1945 by J. C. Harrison).

A parkerized Colt of this vintage was almost certainly re-finished, either by arsenal or commercial source.

So if you want to try for a historically accurate look you will want some type of blued finish. The hammer, slide lock, trigger, and safety lock may give you an idea of the original finish.

Good luck! Sounds like a fun project.
 
I would send it to Colt for the work and the refinishing and ask them to bring it back to it's orginal look. They do great work. They can even refresh the orginal slide markings.
 
Greg Derr said:
OK a few errors in your thinking,sorry. If the frame is stripped(grip bushing)that can be re tapped with a slightly oversized bushing.Brownell's sells them. Parkerizing adds no coating to the gun- it is in the metal. Cerakote is very thin as is hard chrome. Nickel or Chrome will add a thick layer of material which will clog engraved detail. For Cerakote you apply this over the Parkerizing. Greg
Click to expand...

Cool. I am new to this. One of the things I wanted to get from this is a little hands on experience with the 1911 and some experience with refinishing. But not hands on experience with the refinishing per se. More what is best in what circumstance. So they are grip bushings and they can be retapped. Good to know. Even the elctroless is that thick?

FPrice said:
I think you may be incorrect in thinking that this pistol came parkerized. I did a little research (1911's are something I am very interested in) about the original finish for Colt 1911s of this period. It seems that the finish for this serial number was the Colt "Brushed Blue" finish (U.S. Pistols & Revolvers 1909-1945 by J. C. Harrison).

A parkerized Colt of this vintage was almost certainly re-finished, either by arsenal or commercial source.

So if you want to try for a historically accurate look you will want some type of blued finish. The hammer, slide lock, trigger, and safety lock may give you an idea of the original finish.

Good luck! Sounds like a fun project.
Click to expand...

I was told by someone else it was likely parkerized. They were wrong I guess. The trigger, etc are blued, which lends support to the idea they may not have been refinished and that the original finish was the blueing. I hope it is a fun project!

Bugs100 said:
I would send it to Colt for the work and the refinishing and ask them to bring it back to it's orginal look. They do great work. They can even refresh the orginal slide markings.
Click to expand...

That is an interesting idea. I will check into that.

mac1911 said:
http://www.shootersolutions.com/parkerizekits.html if your looking for a home redo. The parkerize kits. I did a beat up CZ82 which the frame and slide came out nice compared to the original finish. Is this a budget redo?
Click to expand...

Not that budget. I will be letting pros do the actual refinishing. I just need to decide what I want for a finish. Which is becoming more complicated the more I hear from folks. But keep the ideas coming. [grin]
 
My only concern is featured in this last pic. You will note the top screw well in the frame has popped out. I will have to have this fixed before getting it refinished. I am hoping it is "fixable" given these are not welded like in modern 1911s but staked. The screw well is stripped but the threads in the frame are savable. My concern is where I will find a replacement screw well...
Click to expand...
At the risk of going Scrivener, I'll point out that the proper term is "grip screw bushing", not "screw well".

They are still staked in many modern 1911s. In a few, they are actually machined with the frame, not separate. By screwing, and then staking, the grip screw bushings and plunger tube, the 1911 frame ends up with perfectly flat sides - making for a much simpler manufacturing process, especially in the pre-CNC days.

You need to use a special staking tool for the replacement, though loctite 271 may do the job as well. If the rather fine threads are stripped, you might want to consider buying a replacement set of oversized bushings that use the same grip, but are just a bit bigger to get past the stripped thread problem.

As Greg Derr mentioned, Brownells makes a kit the the bushings and a matched tap: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=2552/sku/Oversized__45_Bushings__6_Sets_of_4__24_
 
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Rob Boudrie said:
At the risk of going Scrivener, I'll point out that the proper term is "grip screw bushing", not "screw well".

They are still staked in many modern 1911s. In a few, they are actually machined with the frame, not separate. By screwing, and then staking, the grip screw bushings and plunger tube, the 1911 frame ends up with perfectly flat sides - making for a much simpler manufacturing process, especially in the pre-CNC days.

You need to use a special staking tool for the replacement, though loctite 271 may do the job as well. If the rather fine threads are stripped, you might want to consider buying a replacement set of oversized bushings that use the same grip, but are just a bit bigger to get past the stripped thread problem.

As Greg Derr mentioned, Brownells makes a kit the the bushings and a matched tap: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=2552/sku/Oversized__45_Bushings__6_Sets_of_4__24_
Click to expand...

The few 1911 frames I have seen they were tack welded. I assumed all did that.
 
Researching this further and based on everyone's feedback, I believe this is a faithful representation of what this looked like originally. It's a beautiful finish but I don't believe I would ever be able to get that back given the refinishing this has already been through. Thoughts?
 
So, a little update. The gun is at the refinishers getting blued. At least it was a few weeks ago. I hope to have it back within the next month.
 
I have one that was mfd in 1918. It appeared to be all or mostly original. Problem was that someone polished out the "US Property" marking on the frame and re-blued it. I did all the usual accuracy mods, made it ambi since I am a lefty and had it polished and blued again. It's not a collector, but it sure is a tack driver which I hope will stay in the family forever along with the old Woodsman. Love those old Colts. Jack.
 
Don't screw with it. Take it to a gunsmith that does 1911's and have him stake in some new grip bushings after you refinish it. They're still used on 1911's today. You can easily strip out the threads and then it will get expensive.
 

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