Would the S.W.A.T. Team show up?

[seanc]

And besides, ever disassembled and cleaned a gun outside and have a spring or pin go flying into the stratosphere?

You learn the hard way.. You ever look for an HK4 spring (think ball point pen spring) underneath a porch with a years worth of built up leaves and spiders, on top of gravel??

Do yourself a favor, controlled environment, bright lights, CLEAN floor..

 

[MaverickNH]

While a few of my neighbors are God-Fearing, many are MA-relocates to NH and are Gun-Fearing for sure, based on their comments on hunting season.

I'd rather not have anyone knowing I have guns in the house that are worth stealing. Even if my neighbors wouldn't - and I don't think they would - they might blab to friends, who balb to friends, and my house gets broken into for my guns.

The few of us neighbors (19 homes in the woods) who do own guns, don't talk guns around the others. They are the same ones with enough food & water to last two days in a power-outage - except for the two Moron families (they are my back-up resource ).

 

[Bob P]

I highly doubt any of this would actually happen and this whole thread is nothing but conjecture. Could it happen? Sure it could happen but most Chiefs (and officers) have better things to do than bust peoples balls who aren't breaking any laws.

If you want a true answer call your chief and ask him what he thinks are suitable places to clean your firearms on your property.

I beg to differ. Chief gets a call from a freaked out neighbor and has to send an officer out to calm down said neighbor. Chief gets angry. You won't like chief when he's angry! Chief smash! Bye bye LTC.

Kidding aside, the COP's got a job to do. You make his job harder and he's going to do something to make it easier again and if that involves making you an unsuitable person he'll do it.

 

[abomb60]

I beg to differ. Chief gets a call from a freaked out neighbor and has to send an officer out to calm down said neighbor. Chief gets angry. You won't like chief when he's angry! Chief smash! Bye bye LTC.

Kidding aside, the COP's got a job to do. You make his job harder and he's going to do something to make it easier again and if that involves making you an unsuitable person he'll do it.

LTC revocations aside (since as we know the COP can revoke your LTC for any reason they dream up), the OP asked whether there would be a SWAT response to cleaning of an AR-15 outdoors. Unless the officer who arrives on the scene thinks you are a threat to the public then no legal action is going to be taken against you.

I would have thought that more people on this forum would be able to diffentiate between something illegal and something legal that some guy in an office who doesn't want you to have guns will use as a reason to make you unsuitable.

 

[Bob P]

LTC revocations aside (since as we know the COP can revoke your LTC for any reason they dream up), the OP asked whether there would be a SWAT response to cleaning of an AR-15 outdoors. Unless the officer who arrives on the scene thinks you are a threat to the public then no legal action is going to be taken against you.

I would have thought that more people on this forum would be able to diffentiate between something illegal and something legal that some guy in an office who doesn't want you to have guns will use as a reason to make you unsuitable.

Sure, but that's NOT what I was responding to - if you're intent on splitting hairs. I was responding to this

Chances are someone might call the cops (depending on your neighbors) but once they show up and realize the situation there is nothing they can do against you. If laws aren't being broken there is no reason for law enforcement now is there?

Where you said there was 'nothing they (the cops) could do against you'.

That's misleading. While the OP cleaning his AR in his front yard MIGHT not result in a SWAT team, it absolutly might have consequences and since he specified an AR the reasonable assumption is that he possesses an LTC.

 

[M1911]

I would have thought that more people on this forum would be able to diffentiate between something illegal and something legal that some guy in an office who doesn't want you to have guns will use as a reason to make you unsuitable.

I haven't seen any postings here that have failed to make that distinction. Perhaps I just missed them.

Will a "man with a gun call" result in a police response? You bet. Might it result in a single officer responding? Sure. Might it result in the cavalry responding? Sure. The cavalry would get there long before SWAT, I suspect.

Might that result in a some sort of charge like disturbing the peace (whether viable or not in court)? Sure. What is the likelihood of such a charge? It probably varies greatly between East Podunk in Berkshires versus Roxbury.

Might a chief revoke an LTC as a result? Sure. What is the likelihood of a revocation? Again, it probably varies greatly from town to town. As Bob P points out, such incidents are likely to piss off the chief and/or licensing officer and they are people you don't want to piss off.

Personally, I prefer to keep as low a profile as possible.

 

[abomb60]

Where you said there was 'nothing they (the cops) could do against you'.

That's misleading. While the OP cleaning his AR in his front yard MIGHT not result in a SWAT team, it absolutly might have consequences and since he specified an AR the reasonable assumption is that he possesses an LTC.

I wasn't trying to be misleading so let me rephrase that to "there is nothing the cops can LEGALLY do against you". Once they come to the realization that no crime is being commited they have no choice but to leave. You will not be carted off to jail or charged with any crime since none has been committed.

 

[Bob P]

Brandishing.

The all purpose catch-all firearms charge.

 

[abomb60]

Brandishing.

The all purpose catch-all firearms charge.

Wow ... you're reaching now

Brandishing a weapon would be a form of assault. Now in order to prove that the DA would have to prove that you intended to cause fear of immediate bodily harm to another. I doubt that sitting outside with a firearm in parts would cause a reasonable person any fear of immediate harm.

 

[Bob P]

Wow ... you're reaching now

Brandishing a weapon would be a form of assault. Now in order to prove that the DA would have to prove that you intended to cause fear of immediate bodily harm to another. I doubt that sitting outside with a firearm in parts would cause a reasonable person any fear of immediate harm.

I'm not trying to bust your chops. My point is that the cops CAN do something. making it STICK is another issue, but what about the guy in western mass that got arrested for brandishing when the wind blew open his freakin' coat and exposed his CCW? How BS is that? He got arrested though and lost his LTC. AFAIK he's still trying to get it back.

Hey, you wanna clean your gun in your front yard, go for it. I'm just trying to inform the OP that there is no garauntee of no consequences and I'd rather lose my LTC over something less mundane if I had to lose it. Like shooting an intruder.

Sucks that we have to worry about this crap, doesn't it?

 

[abomb60]

I'm not trying to bust your chops. My point is that the cops CAN do something. making it STICK is another issue, but what about the guy in western mass that got arrested for brandishing when the wind blew open his freakin' coat and exposed his CCW? How BS is that? He got arrested though and lost his LTC. AFAIK he's still trying to get it back.

Hey, you wanna clean your gun in your front yard, go for it. I'm just trying to inform the OP that there is no garauntee of no consequences and I'd rather lose my LTC over something less mundane if I had to lose it. Like shooting an intruder.

Sucks that we have to worry about this crap, doesn't it?

I know you're not busting my chops ... i'm enjoying the lively debate

I have heard that story before but AFAIK he wasn't arrested. The cops came & left then he had his LTC revoked. All hearsay and I haven't seen anything official so I take it with a grain of salt. Still stupid IMHO if it was an honest mistake.

I don't worry about this stuff. I know the law and that's what I go by. Everything else is out of my control so I don't bother worrying

 

[M1911]

I'm not trying to bust your chops. My point is that the cops CAN do something. making it STICK is another issue, but what about the guy in western mass that got arrested for brandishing when the wind blew open his freakin' coat and exposed his CCW? How BS is that? He got arrested though and lost his LTC. AFAIK he's still trying to get it back.

I believe that case happened in Dedham, he wasn't arrested, but his LTC was revoked. He did get it back, but it took several years (and undoubtedly thousands of dollars in legal fees).

Hey, you wanna clean your gun in your front yard, go for it. I'm just trying to inform the OP that there is no garauntee of no consequences and I'd rather lose my LTC over something less mundane if I had to lose it. Like shooting an intruder.

Agreed.

I think you and I both believe that if you were cleaning your gun on your porch in Roxbury, that the Boston Police would find something for which to arrest you. I think abomb60 disagrees with us on that part. Whether they make it stick in court later is another matter, but I'm reliably informed that getting arrested will ruin your whole day.

Sucks that we have to worry about this crap, doesn't it?

Yup.

 

[william_munny]

Sucks that we have to worry about this crap, doesn't it?

It sure does. I can't move to NH fast enough!

 

[Baystatesuks]

All this crap just reinforces that the MA gun laws are designed to be confusing and so ethereal that those who operate under them must live in constant fear of subjective interpretation. I remember when MA used to be part of the US. Those were the good old days (few hundred years ago).

 

[MasterShinken]

It sure does. I can't move to NH fast enough!

Currently looking at homes in NH, with enough acres to build me a 300 yard range .

Just the thought of this thread gives me a headache.

 

[M1911]

Currently looking at homes in NH, with enough acres to build me a 300 yard range .

I'm jealous. <threadjack>Where are you looking?</threadjack>

 

[MasterShinken]

I'm jealous. <threadjack>Where are you looking?</threadjack>

lol, hopfuly somewhere around the Sunapee area. Although I would like to keep my commute to hanscom an hour or so, I dont think i'm gonna have that problem in a few months [sad2]

 

[securityboy]

Ever wonder how I clean this???

After shoots it gets set up in my backyard, stripped and hosed off/out (its is too big & messy a job to do inside)...Now I don't "flaunt" what I am doing, but if someone is driving by and happens look in my back yard (which you can see "into" if you are driving eastbound) then you would see some guy playing with a big ass machinegun in has back yard... Have had that gun for close to 10 years, SWAT has never shown up nor has the PD has ever shown up.

Now don't take that to mean you should go run off doing stupid things with guns in your yard, but to even think SWAT will be coming next time you clean your AR outside is just silly (unless maybe you live across the street from the statehouse, whitehouse, etc)

 

[Bob P]

Ever wonder how I clean this???

After shoots it gets set up in my backyard, stripped and hosed off/out (its is too big & messy a job to do inside)...Now I don't "flaunt" what I am doing, but if someone is driving by and happens look in my back yard (which you can see "into" if you are driving eastbound) then you would see some guy playing with a big ass machinegun in has back yard... Have had that gun for close to 10 years, SWAT has never shown up nor has the PD has ever shown up.

Now don't take that to mean you should go run off doing stupid things with guns in your yard, but to even think SWAT will be coming next time you clean your AR outside is just silly (unless maybe you live across the street from the statehouse, whitehouse, etc)

Would you consider there to be a difference between the back yard and the front? The OP speficied his front stoop.

 

[Jose]

I've done it before in my open garage in full view of the neighbors.






But that was Kansas.

 

[center442]

1) The judicial decision in a disturbing the peace call would not be that you were unsuitable to be licensed. The judicial decision would be that you were guilty of disturbing the peace - a misdemeanor.

2) The CLEO doesn't need any kind of judicial decision to support his decision that you are unsuitable. He doesn't have to go to convince a judge that you are unsuitable to make that decision. He just makes up his mind, sends over a cruiser to retrieve your LTC, ammo, and guns.

3) It is only if you appeal the revocation to a judge that a judge's opinion becomes important. The judge will almost always rule in favor of the CLEO. The incident record describing what happened -- you were hanging out on the front porch with your rifle, neighbors freaked, police were called -- would be more than enough to virtually guarantee that the judge would uphold the CLEO's finding of unsuitability.

4) While the CLEO may or may not decide to press charges of disturbing the peace, I seriously doubt he would await a final decision on that prior to revoking your LTC. Court cases get continued forever here in MA, and a first charge of disturbing the peace is almost guaranteed to receive a CWOF. If he's the type to revoke your LTC over this type of incident, IMHO he's most likely to do it right away.

Nicely summed up...and IMHO, 100% accurate. If I were in a free state, I would love to clean my guns on my front porch...just because I could. Doing it here would just cause a stampede of sheep.

 

[qmmo]

Whenever I felt I needed to take someone into custody (back in the day...) and I didn't know what for - only knew they were going to the can, I always went with "To gape with intent to gawk" and then figured something else out later. Cleaning an AR on your front stoop/porch in a densely populated area in full view of the street/neighbors could come under the unwritten 'gape' law used so often by many LEOs....past, present and I'm sure, future.

 

[buketduder]

i'm with you on this one...i unlock my house before i even open the trunk to grab my rifle case on my way back from the range

Jesus..is it really that bad???

 

[Half Cocked]

or would the SWAT TEAM show up

Why?...... you got a dog?...

 

[Half Cocked]

Brandishing.

The all purpose catch-all firearms charge.

You do realize that there is no such charge...... right?

 

[securityboy]

Would you consider there to be a difference between the back yard and the front? The OP speficied his front stoop.

Regardless SWAT is not showing up...

But yes, if you are driving you get a better (longer) view of my back yard if you are headed east bound, than you do of my front porch (east or west bound). Of course if you stop in front of my house obviously you get a better view of the front porch, but due to the layout of the road my back yard is actually quite visable...

 

[Kevlar]

I have heard that story before but AFAIK he wasn't arrested. The cops came & left then he had his LTC revoked. All hearsay and I haven't seen anything official so I take it with a grain of salt. Still stupid IMHO if it was an honest mistake.

I believe that case happened in Dedham, he wasn't arrested, but his LTC was revoked. He did get it back, but it took several years (and undoubtedly thousands of dollars in legal fees).

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=299

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1251

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10681

 

[TomH]

Sad this is even a possibility. [sad2]

 

[dcmdon]

I sometimes wonder what my neighbors think when they see me putting ARs, MP5s, target stands, etc into my car.

Like others have said, it depends entirely on your neighbors/neighborhood.
The above story in MA could also happen in CT. They can pull your permit if a LEO requests it.
The big difference in CT is that there is a process for getting it back. Its not some Rosco P Coltrane who decides if you get it back. Its not the same schmuck who pulled it that you are grovelling to. The BFE has monthly hearings where both you and the complainant present your side.

In a situation like this, the license would have been reinstated. The biggest problem now is that there is a 12 month backlog for a hearing.
When I was arrested in college, I ended up in a pissing contest with the cops about some items missing from my car. We ended up filing an Internal Affairs complaint after ALL the charges were dropped.
That pissed them off so they called the state and got my pistol permit revoked. Back then, the BFE was less busy. I didn't even need a hearing. I wrote a letter telling my side of the story and it was reinstated withing 3 months.

I can live with that, there was a process and it was reasonably timely.

Don

 

[Kalahari]

Not quite the same, but I always clean my guns outside in the garage with the garage door open. Never been given any trouble. One neighbor walked right up our driveway and asked "Cleaning a gun?" Of course I said yes, and she smiled and walked off.

And this is in Newton..