Worcester Registry of Deeds Concealed Carry

[GM-GUY]

I am closing on a house (selling after 3 years) and don't know the rules at the registry of deeds. I remember when it was at the Court House it was a no-no, but now it's at 90 Front Street - any info.

I really don't like not carrying and Worcester is on my 'least favorite to visit list' but don't want to get their and find a prohibition, metal detectors, and a bunch of rent-a-cops with an attitude.

I've got to park at the parking garage and it's a pretty good hike to the building, and in Worcester - I'd feel VERY naked.


Anyone who knows, it would be appreciated, I know the Fitchburg Branch is fine - just haven't been to Worcester since it was in the Court House.

 

[Rick8325]

Isn't that like walking in armed to a city or town hall or a police station? If there is no metal detector and if it's not a school, courthouse, federal building, federal land, or post office then I would assume the "concealed means concealed" saying applies.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Isn't that like walking in armed to a city or town hall or a police station? If there is no metal detector and if it's not a school, courthouse, federal building, federal land, or post office then I would assume the "concealed means concealed" saying applies.

ONLY schools are banned by MGL. Fed BUILDINGS are banned by Fed Law. "Fed Land" (if one means National Parks) is not banned (specifically National Parks are AOK in MA with LTC-A/None).

Courthouses mostly ban weapons as a policy put in place by the Chief Justice. Some that contain only Land Courts are not posted and have no security = they don't care if someone CCWs there. Similarly any other building/facility/venue may have a policy and implement whatever security they wish, but it does not make it "law".

 

[Rick8325]

ONLY schools are banned by MGL. Fed BUILDINGS are banned by Fed Law. "Fed Land" is not banned (specifically National Parks are AOK in MA with LTC-A/None).

Courthouses mostly ban weapons as a policy put in place by the Chief Justice. Some that contain only Land Courts are not posted and have no security = they don't care if someone CCWs there. Similarly any other building/facility/venue may have a policy and implement whatever security they wish, but it does not make it "law".

Well what about military bases? I work on a military base which is federal property, land or call it however you want, that is located in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. The base has a private security contractor and military security that work together. Firearms are prohibited on the installation. Are those security personnel making sure nobody breaks federal policy or federal law?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Fed Property = Fed Law!

When "Fed Land" was mentioned, National Parks is what popped into my mind and there is a <relatively new> law that covers that specifically.

OTHER "Fed Land" will have other Fed Laws in play. Military bases are always off-limits, no matter where located.

The OP was asking about MA PROPERTY (courthouses) and we morphed into a different abyss altogether by throwing Fed properties into the mix. I claim expertise on MA Gun Laws. I claim NO such expertise wrt Fed Laws!!

 

[Rick8325]

I claim expertise on MA Gun Laws. I claim NO such expertise wrt Fed Laws!!

That stinks because I was going to see if you can help me understand what 18 USC § 930(d)(3) means.

 

[Len-2A Training]

That stinks because I was going to see if you can help me understand what 18 USC § 930(d)(3) means.

IIRC, that is the real USC wrt firearms in the USPO (referenced on the poster, but purposely ignored in the text of the CFR on that poster).

It "seems" to say that if you are in the USPO to mail stuff, pickup stuff, check your PO Box, etc. (official business = lawful purpose) that you might be exempt from the prohibition on possession of a firearm in a USPO.

HOWEVER, I have (in the past year or so) been informed by LEOs in other parts of the US that people have been SUCCESSFULLY CONVICTED of just that! They claim to have spoken to AUSAs who stated that they will vigorously prosecute people in such cases. A case is currently in process that is related (storage in vehicle on USPO property while attending to business inside) and so far they have lost on appeal.

I'd be very leery of trying to use that provision to justify what should be a legal act.

 

[ccm75]

I am closing on a house (selling after 3 years) and don't know the rules at the registry of deeds. I remember when it was at the Court House it was a no-no, but now it's at 90 Front Street - any info.

I really don't like not carrying and Worcester is on my 'least favorite to visit list' but don't want to get their and find a prohibition, metal detectors, and a bunch of rent-a-cops with an attitude.

I've got to park at the parking garage and it's a pretty good hike to the building, and in Worcester - I'd feel VERY naked.


Anyone who knows, it would be appreciated, I know the Fitchburg Branch is fine - just haven't been to Worcester since it was in the Court House.

The parking garage on Commercial Street is attached to the rear of 90 Front Street. Park in garage and enter through pedestrian crossover into rear of building. The registry is right there. You wont even get wet if its raining....

 

[RegularGuy]

If you cant walk the few feet between parking and the registry during daytime hours one time without a handgun, you have serious problems.

 

[pakman55]

If you cant walk the few feet between parking and the registry during daytime hours one time without a handgun, you have serious problems.

Some paranoia has a basis.

 

[Kevlar]

...I was going to see if you can help me understand what 18 USC § 930(d)(3) means.

It "seems" to say that if you are in the USPO to mail stuff, pickup stuff, check your PO Box, etc. (official business = lawful purpose) that you might be exempt from the prohibition on possession of a firearm in a USPO.

Case law indicates that mere lawful possession is likely insufficient to trigger the exemption...

The Court concludes that the plain language of § 930(d)(3) is clear. It provides that carrying a firearm in a Federal facility "incident to" hunting or other lawful purpose is lawful. Thus, by its express terms the statute demands inquiry into defendant's purpose in bringing the firearm to a Federal facility. In other words, the possession of the firearm must be not only lawful, but also must be for a lawful purpose that is related to the federal facility. Any other interpretation would fail to give full effect to every word in the statute. Quarles v. U.S. ex rel. Bureau of Indian Affairs, 372 F.3d 1169, 1172 (10th Cir. 2004) (court should "construe the words of the statute in their ordinary sense . . . giv[ing] effect, if possible, to every word of the statute."). Thus, the Court holds that § 930(d)(3) applies to the lawful possession of a weapon incident to hunting or to another lawful purpose related to the Federal facility in question.

http://www.nmcourt.fed.us/Drs-Web/view-file?unique-identifier=0002786449-0000000000

A case is currently in process that is related (storage in vehicle on USPO property while attending to business inside) and so far they have lost on appeal.

Bonidy v USPS.

The latest update I received was that On November 18, 2011, oral arguments were held before the federal district court on the federal defendants' motion to dismiss. The district court denied the motion and ordered the federal defendants to answer the Bonidy's complaint. On December 9, 2011, the federal defendants filed their answer.

It should be noted, however, that the Bonidy's are challenging 39 CFR 232.1(l), not 18 USC 930.

ETA: A scheduling conference was held on 1/26/12. Discovery is due by 6/25/12, and dispositive motions are due by 9/28/12.

 

[JamesP]

I just closed on a house at the Worcester Registry of Deeds about a month ago. Theres no metal detectors, or rent a cops. It was pretty much as it was as a mall, a ghost town.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If you cant walk the few feet between parking and the registry during daytime hours one time without a handgun, you have serious problems.

Did you mean to write "If you don't wish to leave your carry gun in your car when visiting the registry during daytime hours, you have a serious problem"?

MA govt facilities that ban guns administratively (courthouses, statehouse, 1 Ashburton Place, etc.) tend to be pretty decent about checking guns for visitors with LTCs - although this obviously does not scale, and don't expect the courtesy if you are visiting the state house for the annual gun hearings due to the volume of people.

Federal facilities are less accommodating, and generally will check guns only for persons with non-federal LEO status who are not authorized to carry in the facility, but considered deserving of professional courtesy.

 

[GM-GUY]

RegularGuy - It's Worcester, and I haven't been in to Worcester for over 10 years. I drive on the I190/I290 highway, but that's it. I had no idea how long a walk it was.

Parking Garages, a safe place to be sure

I have an LTC, I carry at home, when I'm out (unless going to a prohibited place), even on the tractor when mowing the lawn. I paid good money for the 'Right to Carry' - I'm damn well going to exercise it.

Thanks for the info JamesP -that's exactly what I needed.

 

[GSG]

Well what about military bases? I work on a military base which is federal property, land or call it however you want, that is located in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. The base has a private security contractor and military security that work together. Firearms are prohibited on the installation. Are those security personnel making sure nobody breaks federal policy or federal law?

Actions on military bases can result in prosecution under USC, MGL, or UCMJ, sometimes all three.

Did you mean to write "If you don't wish to leave your carry gun in your car when visiting the registry during daytime hours, you have a serious problem"?

Exactly. Leaving a gun in the car is a whole other can of worms.

 

[ARV]

If you cant walk the few feet between parking and the registry during daytime hours one time without a handgun, you have serious problems.

Nice 2nd post.

 

[hankster]

If you cant walk the few feet between parking and the registry during daytime hours one time without a handgun, you have serious problems.

Hey buddy , go pack it where the sun don't shine !