Witnesses say many dead, injured in shooting at New Zealand mosque

Jason Flare

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AHM

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I knew a Brazlian dishwasher ... each week he sent his paycheck home ... His plan was to go home after a year ...
That's nice.

... we need guys like that.
What we need is for the Welfare-American community to get off the public teat,
and wash some dishes.

What we've got is Brazilians washing the dishes that Americans can't be bothered to wash.
Which is OK for the Brazilians and OK for the dishes.
But it's stupid to over-tax the dishwashers just to pay for domestic hammocks.

(Your buddy was here legally, right?
His employment was legit,
with tax withholding and no identity theft, right?)

But he wasn’t able to get his wife in legally

One of the things I'm most sure of
is that I don't want temporary work visas
to entitle the bearers to bring along family members
that won't also have full-time jobs.

No free medical care,
no children in school,
no social services at all.

Not even a tourist visa.
We don't need any anchor babies
9 months after the last conjugal visit.
 
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That's nice.


What we need is for the Welfare-American community to get off the public teat,
and wash some dishes.

What we've got is Brazilians washing the dishes that Americans can't be bothered to wash.
Which is OK for the Brazilians and OK for the dishes.
But it's stupid to over-tax the dishwashers just to pay for domestic hammocks.

(Your buddy was here legally, right?
His employment was legit,
with tax withholding and no identity theft, right?)



One of the things I'm most sure of
is that I don't want temporary work visas
to entitle the bearers to bring along family members
that won't also have full-time jobs.

No free medical care,
no children in school,
no social services at all.

Not even a tourist visa.
We don't need any anchor babies
9 months after the last conjugal visit.
The thing is, I want legal immigrants. I want hard working dish washing immigrants. Who come here legally. And get real paychecks.

We need them. Badly. We’re not reproducing enough. We need hard working immigrants.

What we don’t want is welfare receiving illegals. That’s what we’re trying to avoid.

We do want good hard working immigrants that are pursuing the America dream for themselves and their children. That’s what our ancestors did. Most of us aren’t here because our ancestors had it so good back in Europe that they decided to come to America and gamble in themselves to make it.
 

Atlantis

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The thing is, I want legal immigrants. I want hard working dish washing immigrants. Who come here legally. And get real paychecks.

We need them. Badly. We’re not reproducing enough. We need hard working immigrants.

What we don’t want is welfare receiving illegals. That’s what we’re trying to avoid.

We do want good hard working immigrants that are pursuing the America dream for themselves and their children. That’s what our ancestors did. Most of us aren’t here because our ancestors had it so good back in Europe that they decided to come to America and gamble in themselves to make it.
What we NEED is a working class and a welfare incentive structure that promotes 40 hour workweeks. Look at what happened out west when they raised the minimum wage to $15 an hour? Everyone started asking to work part time due to loosing benefits. If getting a real paycheck has the affect of a NET LOSS in income, then why would any rationale individual chase a real paycheck? The system is incentivized to promote a welfare state where its better to take a handout than go out and work.

I am okay with legal immigration to an extent. There is nothing wrong with moderate legal immigration. What is wrong is to suggest that we NEED legal immigration to solve our labor problem. The fact that Americans aren't doing these jobs is a cultural shortcoming but largely a systemic issue. I don't really care if its malicious systemic design, or if its just negligence. Either way our policies are NOT working. And it's only going to get worse as automation replaces low skill jobs.

I recall being about 18 visiting New Orleans with my parents. News was covering "rampant un-employment" but everywhere I walked I saw "help wanted" signs. I asked the folks working what was going on. The response was something like "It's alot easier to sit in air conditioning and collect from the state than it is to come work in this heat, no one wants to work" That really stuck with me. It SHOULDN'T be easier. You can talk all you want about personal responsibility, but end of the day, humans are self serving and largely rationale. If there is an "easy" path, most folks are going to take it. The rest of us shouldn't allow that path to be so easy.
 
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What we NEED is a working class and a welfare incentive structure that promotes 40 hour workweeks. Look at what happened out west when they raised the minimum wage to $15 an hour? Everyone started asking to work part time due to loosing benefits. If getting a real paycheck has the affect of a NET LOSS in income, then why would any rationale individual chase a real paycheck? The system is incentivized to promote a welfare state where its better to take a handout than go out and work.

I am okay with legal immigration to an extent. There is nothing wrong with moderate legal immigration. What is wrong is to suggest that we NEED legal immigration to solve our labor problem. The fact that Americans aren't doing these jobs is a cultural shortcoming but largely a systemic issue. I don't really care if its malicious systemic design, or if its just negligence. Either way our policies are NOT working. And it's only going to get worse as automation replaces low skill jobs.

I recall being about 18 visiting New Orleans with my parents. News was covering "rampant un-employment" but everywhere I walked I saw "help wanted" signs. I asked the folks working what was going on. The response was something like "It's alot easier to sit in air conditioning and collect from the state than it is to come work in this heat, no one wants to work" That really stuck with me. It SHOULDN'T be easier. You can talk all you want about personal responsibility, but end of the day, humans are self serving and largely rationale. If there is an "easy" path, most folks are going to take it. The rest of us shouldn't allow that path to be so easy.
True. And I agree with you.

Did you miss the part about my immigrant friend who was washing dishes to make money to buy cows in Brazil?
 

Atlantis

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True. And I agree with you.

Did you miss the part about my immigrant friend who was washing dishes to make money to buy cows in Brazil?
Paraphrasing, but you stated "We NEED him, The problem is he couldn't get his wife here legally"

My point is we shouldn't NEED him. We should be charitably taking in immigrants to a great and prosperous country. Not "needing them to come wash our dishes" Maybe we do need him, and that is the ROOT problem. We shouldn't. His wife's ability to legally immigrate is not the problem.

Frankly I have no idea how this can be solved.
 
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Paraphrasing, but you stated "We NEED him, The problem is he couldn't get his wife here legally"

My point is we shouldn't NEED him. We should be charitably taking in immigrants to a great and prosperous country. Not "needing them to come wash our dishes" Maybe we do need him, and that is the ROOT problem. We shouldn't. His wife's ability to legally immigrate is not the problem.

Frankly I have no idea how this can be solved.
I think we’re talking past each other.

My point is that we need go getters. Would you emigrate to China and leave your wife and kids behind for a year of you could make 400k? Maybe you would. Maybe not. But he did. That’s the guy I want to hire. That’s the guy I want as an American citizen. Him. And his wife and his kids.

The United States lets in more legal immigrants per capita than any other country in the world. And it’s not even close.

I want the Indian software dudes. I want the Eastern European engineers. I want the Nazi rocket makers. That’s what makes this country special.

My ancestors did not come her from Germany and Ireland because life was hunky dory. No, they came because home sucked and they were determined to do better here. And they did. Because here I am.

And you are right. We have built a welfare system that deters work. It’s true. And it’s bad. And it needs to be shredded.

And I too have no idea how to make it happen.

One thing I’d say is if that they’d stop stealing 70% or more of what I make, I sure as shit would have more than enough to give people a helping hand.
 

Atlantis

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I think we’re talking past each other.

My point is that we need go getters.
I see what you're saying. Certainly I agree with you that we should be looking to bring in that type of immigrant versus the alternatives.

We are veering out of the "thread topic" but what really troubles me is how to solve the issue without enacting a socialistic solution. E.g. The lack of increase in wages is an issue, and you can't just cut the welfare system if you don't allow for realistic wages. Half the battle is certainly managing expectations, "life of leisure" is not in the cards for these folks. Our media/advertising does a great job of making this reality impossible to accept. But if for instance we 1) Lower taxes 2) Somehow get folks onboard with a realistic level of consumerism/discretionary spending 3) Raised wages, where is the difference going to come from? Just the tax differential? Are we really expecting the results to "trickle down"? I just don't see corporate profit margins being variable that changes.
 
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I see what you're saying. Certainly I agree with you that we should be looking to bring in that type of immigrant versus the alternatives.

We are veering out of the "thread topic" but what really troubles me is how to solve the issue without enacting a socialistic solution. E.g. The lack of increase in wages is an issue, and you can't just cut the welfare system if you don't allow for realistic wages. Half the battle is certainly managing expectations, "life of leisure" is not in the cards for these folks. Our media/advertising does a great job of making this reality impossible to accept. But if for instance we 1) Lower taxes 2) Somehow get folks onboard with a realistic level of consumerism/discretionary spending 3) Raised wages, where is the difference going to come from? Just the tax differential? Are we really expecting the results to "trickle down"? I just don't see corporate profit margins being variable that changes.
It’s a big topic and we’ve certainly hijacked the thread. I and you can and have identified the problem. I do not at this moment, have a solution. I’m working on one though. Might never come up with a solution.

I’ll just leave an anecdote about my experience.

So, for well over a decade I haven’t had cable tv. But I signed up for it a month ago because it was cheaper to have the internet and tv than just internet. For a year, anyway.

So, for the first time in over a decade I have seen commercials.

A commercial came on for a new Chevy truck. Man, the bells and whistles! Look at those tires! Look how little she’s wearing! And I began to think maybe I need a new truck.......

Then my brain activated. Don’t need a new truck. Truck pulls boat just fine. It’s in great shape. And I own it.

But for a fraction of a second, I let them tell me what I need or what I want.

I’ll be killing the cable again next month. Enough of that BS entering my mind.

Maybe that makes sense to you. Maybe not. Either way, that’s the world most people live in.
 

10thSFFD

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The thing is, I want legal immigrants. I want hard working dish washing immigrants. Who come here legally. And get real paychecks.

We need them. Badly. We’re not reproducing enough. We need hard working immigrants.
No, we don't!

Americans don't have children just because they want to play video games and wear pussy hats on the weekends. They simply can't afford them!

Why? Because America wastes money on lost ventures. Because America has decided to support garbage which will never work. This garbage comes here from the entire globe, and, when I look around, maybe even from some outer galaxy. Because America decided to trust politicians who just need cheap votes.....Yada, yada......We all know that, but we are tolerating this mess for many decades already. It will not go away on it's own!

It takes one day to contact all gun owners in MA and scare them with "you are a felon now" type of communication. But for decades it is impossible to reach all of those who abuse our welfare system! Instead of reaching them we keep making them richer to keep them from revolting. Nobody wants yellow vests in MA! Nice pussy hats with possibly zero children or maybe just one gender confused kid. That is where it is all going!

How many of you know the welfare recipient who is traveling back to home country sometimes with his/her entire family? We can't possibly violate their rights by cutting their benefits! No! We will STFU and bitch on internet where nobody knows us. Try to report them and watch your state representative in action. Snails move faster under the sea!

So, you want somebody else to come here and work hard? Well, I have news for you, they have arrived and they will implement their own laws and their own rules!

How about making it better for Americans? Instead of wasting money in Syria or giving gifts to Taliban we will give gifts to Americans! Don't we have shi$$y infrastructure? Who said that we need to sit in cubicles in overtime just because we need to pay schools for kids and mortgages? Don't we have desire to live better?

I want Americans to cut immediately all foreign help. It is not needed. I want Americans to pull out of all "hot areas". Bring our men and women in uniforms home! We do not need UN, NATO or any other crap which is just more seats for politicians with pretty bad ideas. We need people who will do concrete tasks. Fix roads, build walls, build safe borders, make great products here!

Our stupid ambitions made us impotent!
 

10thSFFD

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It’s a big topic and we’ve certainly hijacked the thread. I and you can and have identified the problem. I do not at this moment, have a solution. I’m working on one though. Might never come up with a solution.

I’ll just leave an anecdote about my experience.

So, for well over a decade I haven’t had cable tv. But I signed up for it a month ago because it was cheaper to have the internet and tv than just internet. For a year, anyway.

So, for the first time in over a decade I have seen commercials.

A commercial came on for a new Chevy truck. Man, the bells and whistles! Look at those tires! Look how little she’s wearing! And I began to think maybe I need a new truck.......

Then my brain activated. Don’t need a new truck. Truck pulls boat just fine. It’s in great shape. And I own it.

But for a fraction of a second, I let them tell me what I need or what I want.

I’ll be killing the cable again next month. Enough of that BS entering my mind.

Maybe that makes sense to you. Maybe not. Either way, that’s the world most people live in.
I am glad you carry the conversation right here. It belongs here! This thread is about yet another country using tragedy as an excuse to implement slavery and dependency!

Half of the people here in this country lost their minds. They are chasing invisible butterflies in the LSD meadows. They want us to join them and they are angry because we refuse to give up on simple logic. What do we do? We become concerned and considered. Please, do not offend anyone with your thoughts because nut house may revolt! Please, do not say MAGA, they will revolt!!! Take my black weapon and my magazines, please! You are correct, Miss Government, I am such an idiot that I can't supervise my own weapons and they may decide one day to leave me. It would be best for me to have no responsibility whatsoever.

This is where we are going right now! And when Erdogan will tell us that he will kick our butts like Turks did in Gallipoli we will politely object and return more weapons.

Time to start thinking is now!

We can't leave it up to one man! We can't accept that the political program of the entire Democratic Party is BULLYING! Show me the money and do not bother me with your screwed up emotions and wild guesses! Show me some leaders instead of coming up with criminals, jokers, clowns and crazies! Tell me what you going to do for me and not for somebody who just crossed the river and wonders where to get a job. I have been working all my life and I am paying taxes. I do not see anything I should appreciate from you. You are stepping on my rights and you are accusing me of being Nazi, deplorable, insensitive, white nationalist,.........Let me ask you one simple question: "WHO WILL FEED YOU WHEN I WILL STOP WORKING?"
 
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10thSFFD

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German prosecutors arrest 10 suspects over Islamist attack plan | DW | 22.03.2019
Prosecutors in Frankfurt issued a statement on Friday to say the suspects were detained in police raids involving 200 officers in the Frankfurt region earlier in the day.
Commenting on the raids, Hesse state interior minister Peter Beuth said: "Police intervened in a timely manner to prevent possible attack plans at an early stage."
There were no details on the nationalities of the suspects whose ages were given at between 20 and 42 years. They live in the Frankfurt, Offenbach, Wiesbaden and Mainz areas. Eleven people were initially arrested but the investigation was centered on ten suspects.
The main suspects were a 21-year old man from Offenbach and two 31-year brothers from Wiesbaden, all associated with the local Islamist Salafist community. All are German citizens.

The number of registered Islamists in the state of Hesse in 2017 was 4,170, including 1,650 Salafists.

Killing unbelievers

According to the initial investigation, the accused were planning to use a vehicle and firearms to kill as many "unbelievers" as possible. They had rented a large vehicle and made contact with weapons' dealers and started to raise funds.

During the raids, police found and seized over €20,000 ($22,500) in cash, several knives, small quantities of narcotics, a variety of documents and electronic data storage equipment.

The charges include funding terrorism and conspiring to commit a crime. The accused are due to appear before a judge at the District Court of Frankfurt on Friday afternoon.

A number of plots have been foiled by police in recent months, with some similar raids.
 

Reptile

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German prosecutors arrest 10 suspects over Islamist attack plan | DW | 22.03.2019
Prosecutors in Frankfurt issued a statement on Friday to say the suspects were detained in police raids involving 200 officers in the Frankfurt region earlier in the day.
Commenting on the raids, Hesse state interior minister Peter Beuth said: "Police intervened in a timely manner to prevent possible attack plans at an early stage."
There were no details on the nationalities of the suspects whose ages were given at between 20 and 42 years. They live in the Frankfurt, Offenbach, Wiesbaden and Mainz areas. Eleven people were initially arrested but the investigation was centered on ten suspects.
The main suspects were a 21-year old man from Offenbach and two 31-year brothers from Wiesbaden, all associated with the local Islamist Salafist community. All are German citizens.

The number of registered Islamists in the state of Hesse in 2017 was 4,170, including 1,650 Salafists.

Killing unbelievers

According to the initial investigation, the accused were planning to use a vehicle and firearms to kill as many "unbelievers" as possible. They had rented a large vehicle and made contact with weapons' dealers and started to raise funds.

During the raids, police found and seized over €20,000 ($22,500) in cash, several knives, small quantities of narcotics, a variety of documents and electronic data storage equipment.

The charges include funding terrorism and conspiring to commit a crime. The accused are due to appear before a judge at the District Court of Frankfurt on Friday afternoon.

A number of plots have been foiled by police in recent months, with some similar raids.
Needs own thread.
 

Dadstoys

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I like this part.
Because people almost everywhere in the world know that fewer weapons means greater security. (And in places where they don't know it, things seem to go badly wrong nonetheless.)

Millions of victims throughout history disagree you moron.

Of course, the obligatory PC crap. Pandering without addressing the real problem and punishing law abiding unPC citizens.
After the Christchurch attacks, Ardern did a lot of things right. She wore a headscarf when visiting the local Muslim community. She opened the next parliamentary session with the Arabic message of peace, "As-Salaam Alaikum." And she refused to speak the attacker's name. Her message: I am on the side of the Muslim victims. And: Muslims belong to us.
I hope she likes the way that head scarf looks on her.
There may come a day when not wearing it will end in her death.
 

MaverickNH

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“Officials say both the manifesto and video qualify as objectionable under a 1993 New Zealand law that gives the government discretion to ban certain materials for the public good. An objectionable classification in this particular case is considered to be a justifiable limit on freedom of expression under New Zealand's Bill of Rights.”
New Zealand bans terror suspect's racist manifesto; citizens told to 'destroy any copies'

One can be arrested, tried, convicted and jailed/fined for mere *possession* of the document or video. Any “Bill of Rights” that allows government to do this defines Rights is repulsive to a Free Society.
 

Rob Boudrie

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Technology and medicine are great sources of legal immigrants. First, the pool of people who make it through the process are at the pointy part of the intellectual pyramid. Secondly, there is virtually ZERO job openings in tech or medicine for immigrants who have not done it legally and can prove they have a legal right to work in the US. Doubly so for medical personnel who have to get US licenses. One of my primary docs is an Indian, and I have great faith in his skills and abilities.

Legal foreign med schools may squeeze US citizens out of med school and residency slots, but the larger pool simply raises the bar for the quality of US student who can eventually end up surging you.
 
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