Why are my first shots more accurate?

[Prepper]

When I go to the range with a 9mm pistol (currently a S&W MP9 with a new trigger job), I typically find that the earlier shots I fire are more accurate than ones later. I get better with each visit to the range, but the downward accuracy trend that happens during a single trip can be a bit of a downer.

Today, I put the target at 20 feet, and the first 5 shots I took were all on top of each other; a dime would cover the hole. But subsequent groups ranged between 1.5" and 2". I'm fairly pleased with that (it'd easily be enough to hit a BG where I need to), but I'm still puzzled by this.

If I try dry firing, I can see the front sight remain right where I want it. Then I fire for real, and it may be an inch off. Neither me nor my hands feel tired.

Any suggestions for improving?

And what can I reasonably expect for groupings if I keep on practicing? i.e. what achievable goal should I strive for? Ideally I'd like to be able to hit 2 liter coke bottles at 75', but so far I can only do that with a [unscoped] Ruger MKIII (and no more than 50% of the time too).

 

[doobie]

Is the first round double action?

Are you pacing yourself between shots or rapid firing?

Are you performing proper breath control?

Are the later shots at least consistent? Have you looked at one of those charts that shows what you are doing wrong if the shot is in a certain area?

 

[jar]

If I try dry firing, I can see the front sight remain right where I want it. Then I fire for real, and it may be an inch off. Neither me nor my hands feel tired.

Try mixing in some dummy rounds in your magazines and then mixing the magazines so you don't know when they're coming. The dryfires when you don't expect them will show you exactly what you're doing wrong. Doing this has really helped my pistol shooting.

 

[Ray-500]

When I go to the range with a 9mm pistol (currently a S&W MP9 with a new trigger job), I typically find that the earlier shots I fire are more accurate than ones later. I get better with each visit to the range, but the downward accuracy trend that happens during a single trip can be a bit of a downer. Today, I put the target at 20 feet, and the first 5 shots I took were all on top of each other; a dime would cover the hole. But subsequent groups ranged between 1.5" and 2". I'm fairly pleased with that (it'd easily be enough to hit a BG where I need to), but I'm still puzzled by this. If I try dry firing, I can see the front sight remain right where I want it. Then I fire for real, and it may be an inch off. Neither me nor my hands feel tired. Any suggestions for improving? And what can I reasonably expect for groupings if I keep on practicing? i.e. what achievable goal should I strive for? Ideally I'd like to be able to hit 2 liter coke bottles at 75', but so far I can only do that with a [unscoped] Ruger MKIII (and no more than 50% of the time too).

Grin, I know its easier said than done, but control and attention are probably the largest factors. Doesn't matter how long you have been shooting, the effort always has to be there. 1. Could you possibly be letting your eye wander off the front sight, consciously or not, because your first few shots were so good that you want the rest to be the same. Are your eyes jumping to the target to check? If so, you could be losing the front sight without realizing it. 2. Are you able to call the shots? If you feel you have a shot "off", can you tell where it was off...high, low, left, right...and roughly by how much. 3. Has your stance changed between strings? Grip changed? Finger placement on trigger changed? 4. Is your breath control always the same? 5. Is there anyone around watching you? It may affect your practice...if you let it, because you want to do well. 6. Are you able to "zone out" to the point where there is nothing around but you and the front sight? 7. Are you getting "surprise" shots? By that I mean you have all lined up and the shot goes off. You did not consciously say, "Now!" Grin, am just getting back into shooting after a long hiatus and these are the things that I have to retrain myself for. Knowing, being told, and doing are different things, so in that sense we are in the same boat. Practice, familiarity and concentration will ultimately make anyone better, to the best of their ability. Hope this was of some help. Keep at it....as I will.

 

[M1911]

Fatigue, loss of concentration, and anticipation of recoil. Solution is lots of practice and lots of dry firing. Also, when on the range and you notice your accuracy falling off, unload and start dry firing for a while.

If you don't see your brass getting flung out of the chamber, then you are blinking your eyes and are probably flinching -- with the expected impact on your accuracy.

 

[Ray-500]

Fatigue, loss of concentration, and anticipation of recoil. Solution is lots of practice and lots of dry firing. Also, when on the range and you notice your accuracy falling off, unload and start dry firing for a while.

If you don't see your brass getting flung out of the chamber, then you are blinking your eyes and are probably flinching -- with the expected impact on your accuracy.

M1911, you kind of threw me with this one. If you look at my previous post, I am getting myself re-acquainted and re-trained based on my own prior experiences, so I may be missing something that I need to see.

Have never watched cases coming out of the chamber. Grin, have (had) learned to ignore hot 45 cases bouncing off a side partition and getting down the back of your collar as well as landing on your forearm.

If you make it a point to watch the cases, doesn't that take away your focal point from where it should be....the front sight? I think seeing the cases may be a peripheral thing...just something else to be ignored while you are concentrating on others.

Am I misunderstanding?

 

[Prepper]

I never see cases flung out (unless they bounce off the beam that supports the roof and hit me in the head). I'm sure I'm not blinking. I try to keep the front sight in focus and over the target, while everything else is out of focus. The target may come into focus after I fire and I want to see exactly where it went.

Yes, later shots are fairly consistent, at least until I've been there too long and then even those will drop off, but that's when I realize I should pack up and go home.

 

[Mike-Mike]

Try mixing in some dummy rounds in your magazines and then mixing the magazines so you don't know when they're coming. The dryfires when you don't expect them will show you exactly what you're doing wrong. Doing this has really helped my pistol shooting.

Right... Cuz you don't know when they are going off.

 

[M1911]

If you make it a point to watch the cases, doesn't that take away your focal point from where it should be....the front sight? I think seeing the cases may be a peripheral thing...just something else to be ignored while you are concentrating on others.

You don't focus on the cases. You focus on the front sight. But if you don't blink, you will often see the case as a blur.

Or put it another way, do you see the muzzle flash? Do you see the front sight rise and fall?

Work with a buddy and do the ball and dummy drill. After you have been shooting for a while, have him load your magazines for you and put in 1 or 2 dummy rounds in the magazines. When you pull the trigger on the dummy, you may well see your front site move dramatically (typically downwards). If that happens, you are anticipating the recoil.

 

[Ray-500]

Or put it another way, do you see the muzzle flash? Do you see the front sight rise and fall?

Yes I do, and will sometimes see the flash. I try to keep my concentration on the front sight and reacquiring it after recoil.

 

[PistolPete]

The whole topic on breath control has been laid to rest. First off all you cannot breathe while you are shooting. It isn't possible. That being said you will automatically hold your breath when you are shooting. So I wouldn't put a ton of effort into that.

Are you a right handed shooter? If so are your extra shots going low and left? If so that is because you are anticipating recoil and actually pushing the gun down before the gun fires.

The reason your first few shots are better than the others is because you're not anticipating the recoil on the first few rounds. However, after you body feels the recoil you will automatically start to fight it. A lot of dryfire will help with this as well as a lot of practice. The key is to keep the sights aligned on your target and pull the trigger without moving the sights. That is all there is to it. However, it's not that easy.

Dryfire will help but just know that you will never jerk the gun when dryfiring when you're not shooting.

A good drill is to load 5 or so rounds in your gun and shoot them. As soon as your gun is empty, verifiy that it's empty, release the slide forward, get a sight picture, and press the trigger. See what happens to your front sight as you do this. You will prob. notice that you jerk the gun down. Now you know you are anticipating recoil and you can go from there.

Good luck,
Pete

 

[M1911]

That being said you will automatically hold your breath when you are shooting. So I wouldn't put a ton of effort into that.

Agreed. The two most important parts of shooting are sight alignment and trigger control. Everything else, including breath control, is far less important.

 

[Prepper]

I scanned the first 4 targets that I shot yesterday, all at 20 feet and the circle is 3" wide. This is easier than trying to explain what the targets look like:

First 5 shots I took. This is what I want to do all the time:

Second 5 shots... what happened?

This is 9 shots all together:

4th target, 5 shots again. A little better than the previous two.

I see no sign of a downward flinch, whether by looking at the target or by my own observations while shooting. I used to do that sometimes but got through that. The trick was to realize that there's no need to try to physically prevent the muzzle from recoiling up in order to make it accurate... keep that front sight on the target no matter what, through the entire trigger pull, and don't worry about recoil. Dry firing as well as doing a lot with a .22 Ruger MKIII helped too.

Answers to some questions: Yes, right handed shooter.

By dummy rounds, do you mean those snap caps? Those are rather expensive but I do have a few .223 snap caps (no help here though). I should probably try that but then I have to drag someone to the range with me (if I load the mags myself, I'll remember what I did. Unless I load up 4, each different, then shuffle them... hmmm, could work.)

I don't see a muzzle flash but then it is bright sunlight usually. Yes, I see the front sight rise and fall.

 

[PistolPete]

Honestly, I thought your groups were going to be much different. With groups as tight as you're shooting I wouldn't worry about it honestly. The difference is most likely just sight alignment and nothing more. You arms will have an arc to them when holding the gun and there is nothing you can do for this as it will always be there. I wouldn't worry about the difference between the first and last target. Honestly, some luck comes into place here so the first target you could have had a little of it on your side.

 

[Bugs100]

Recently I had a new shooter ask me for some tips at the range. I watched the guy and he was getting every shot in the black at 33ft.. I said, whats the matter with those shots. He said, I feel like I should be doing better. ???

I don't know why guys get so upset about clustering shots in the bulls eye. I was taught forty years ago to get the gun out and start blasting for center mass and shoot to stop the threat and that's the way I've always practiced.

Some times I'll shoot for nothing but bulls eyes to prove to myself I can still do it. but I would rather get 3 in the 8 inch ring as fast as I can, than take my time and get 3 in the 3 inch center.

I've had guys watch me shoot and say, Your shooting way to fast.. I just say I'm in the 8's that's all that matters to me...

I think guys that carry should realise that they should also practice for speed and control more than bulls eyes..

 

[Lugnut]

Bugs- Here's my favorite quote:

"Shooting good points on target at speed is a process of trading away some of your accuracy for speed. If you don't start out with great accuracy skills, then you have nothing to trade."

Yeah... I like shooting fast... OP may have other goals other than just SD.

 

[Big Daddy 45acp]

Lots of things can cause this.

First off, micro tremors in the hands. You may not notice them, but they affect accuracy over long shooting sessions. Kind of like caffeine or nicotine shakes only less pronounced.

Some guns shoot better cold, then loosen up as they warm up. The opposite can be true also.

As the gun gets dirty and they barrel gets fouled, accuracy suffers.

Shooting is so much fun, after firing your first shots and seeing they are on target, you may be shooting faster than you realize. Or trying too hard to show off for that hottie two lanes down!

 

[JimConway]

I suggest that the answer may be very simple. For many folks, the first shots are very good because the are applying all of the techniques properly.
as the day goes they become more at ease and relax a bit. BTW, From the targets I do not think that you have anything to worry about.
One thing that i would keep a eye on is the tendency of some folks to look for where the shot hits while the gun is in recoil. This can cause misses.

 

[M1911]

One thing that i would keep a eye on is the tendency of some folks to look for where the shot hits while the gun is in recoil.

Randy Cain had a nice training drill to reduce this tendency: Take your knife and cut out a small center in the target where you want your shots to impact. If you hit the target where you are aiming, then you won't see anything, because all the shots will go through the hole in the target.

 

[Joe R.]

I suggest that the answer may be very simple. For many folks, the first shots are very good because the are applying all of the techniques properly.
as the day goes they become more at ease and relax a bit. BTW, From the targets I do not think that you have anything to worry about.
One thing that i would keep a eye on is the tendency of some folks to look for where the shot hits while the gun is in recoil. This can cause misses.

That's it right there. I do the same thing with my pistols - my first shot will be in the center of the bullseye or close. The first thing in my mind is: " If I pack it up now and walk away, I look like I know what I'm doing!" As you burn through the box or 3, you start thinking about the misses and what you should have done and you degrade.

Joe R.

 

[Prepper]

Today I was paying extra attention to keep the front sight focused (it often goes out of focus) and on top of the target until the gun has fired. That seems to help. I still did the same thing with the first group of 5 at 20', 4 of them almost on top of each other at the center with one stray (1.5" away from center). Subsequent groups spread out more, but they were better than the previous trip (1 to 1.5" group around the center).

Last thing I did was put the target at 50' and fire 5 shots all within a 1" group, although 1" up and to the right of where I was aiming. But, I was still very pleased then packed up and went home before anything had a chance to go downhill.

 

[PistolPete]

Shooting groups is a good thing but learning to really shoot is another. You should look into action shooting such as USPSA (IPSC) or IDPA. That will bring a whole new light to shooting and you'll learn there is SO much more to shooting than just shooting a tight group.

Pete

 

[Prepper]

I agree, and someday I'd like to go further with shooting than stationary targets. My current club is great but I can't do anything like shoot moving targets, etc. Harvard has those, right? And non-members can get into the events?

Ummm.... just how much "action" are we talking about here? I've never seen any of these IPSC or IDPA matches before.

 

[PistolPete]

Harvard is the best club around and we have more facilities than prob. any club in the Northeast. Action shooting at Harvard is HUGE. We have practice matces every Wed. night so if you're even thinking of trying it out this is the place to start. I'm a USPSA shooter and absolutely love it. Nothing like running around while shooting and having the adrenaline pumping and the competition elevating you to the next level. Have you ever even shot a target from a draw before? Have you shot steel? Have you done reloads while running to a different shooting position? Have you had to plan a stage out and figure out the best way to shoot a scenario?

If you answered no to any or all of the above then that is what action shooting is all about.

So when you coming down?

PistolPete

 

[Prepper]

Sounds fun... do you do this all winter at Harvard? Things are really hectic for me the next month or two. I can't say I've done any of those things you listed. I've shot aluminum, that's about as close to a "yes" that I can give.

 

[PistolPete]

We shoot Wed. night all year round. We shoot indoors during the winter which limits what we can do but it's still a ton of fun. WHen I started shooting I spent a ton of time trying to tighten up my groups. Then a guy at the range said that I needed to try out this action shooting. It was a small steel match at Mass Rifle in Woburn and from there I was hooked. After he got me hooked on steel he said I needed to try USPSA. I came to a match and haven't looked back. You would be amazed at all the skills needed to excel in this sport. IT RULES!!!

 

[Gammon]

Yes I do, and will sometimes see the flash. I try to keep my concentration on the front sight and reacquiring it after recoil.

You should not "reacquire" your front sight; you should observe its motion without losing sight of it. Concentration is the key.