Who does the COP get his orders from regarding ALP?

[matt]

I was wondering if it is possible to put pressure on the COP to change LTC policy through other channels, like the selectmen of the town, or town manager?

Is this a route anyone has tried? I'm not expecting I'll get my liscense to be ALP before it issues, but there is always the future. It won't change if I don't try. Any advice in this regard?

Thanks,
Matt

 

[FPrice]

Matt,

It's possible but you would have to have a town manager/board of selectmen who strongly believe in ALP LTCs and who are willing to tell the chief that's what they want.

My somewhat pessimistic view is that this is a long shot. But long shots sometimes win.

 

[Lynne]

The state gives them discretionary licensing authority. If the selectmen/city council/whatever tells the chief that they want his policy changed, he can just thumb his nose at them. They have no authority over him when it comes to the gun licenses. You can try it, but don't expect a lot, especially is the CofP is anti 2nd A.

 

[Len-2A Training]

The state gives them discretionary licensing authority. If the selectmen/city council/whatever tells the chief that they want his policy changed, he can just thumb his nose at them. They have no authority over him when it comes to the gun licenses. You can try it, but don't expect a lot, especially is the CofP is anti 2nd A.

Lynne, I hate to disagree with you, but I know better here . . .

The BOS/City Council/Mayor hires the Chief of Police and renews (or not) his/her contract. The chiefs do do what they are told or they can lose their $100K+/year job. I know of the chief in Carver who was "given her marching orders" by the BOS to issue permits (she had refused). She left shortly afterwards . . . not sure if she was fired/not renewed or quit in "frustration" because she lost that battle to do away with the 2nd Amendment in her town.

Another town ended up with spending a fortune on 3 lawsuits where the chief had either downgraded or refused people as unsuitable for LTC-A/ALP, without any statutory disqualifiers. Eventually the pressure was put on the BOS, who TOLD the chief to cut the BS and issue the damn licenses.

 

[matt]

The BOS/City Council/Mayor hires the Chief of Police and renews (or not) his/her contract. The chiefs do do what they are told or they can lose their $100K+/year job. I know of the chief in Carver who was "given her marching orders" by the BOS to issue permits (she had refused). She left shortly afterwards . . . not sure if she was fired/not renewed or quit in "frustration" because she lost that battle to do away with the 2nd Amendment in her town.

Another town ended up with spending a fortune on 3 lawsuits where the chief had either downgraded or refused people as unsuitable for LTC-A/ALP, without any statutory disqualifiers. Eventually the pressure was put on the BOS, who TOLD the chief to cut the BS and issue the damn licenses.

That's what I wanted to hear!! I KNOW several of the town government leaders have ALP permits (grandfathered) and are 2a supporters. I'll start writing letters as soon as I get my less than ALP permit.

Matt

 

[Scrivener]

The Finance Committee may be upset if all the qualified applicants who get jerked off by the chief file appeals. Once town/city counsel gets involved, it costs the town money and THAT gets attention.

 

[Lynne]

Len - you just jogged my memory - I forgot about the chief in Carver. Okay, there is a chance it would work. It would depend on the mindset of the "town fathers" (or mothers) then.

 

[JonJ]

Len - you just jogged my memory - I forgot about the chief in Carver.

Good old Chief "Green Teeth" Skoog.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Len - you just jogged my memory - I forgot about the chief in Carver. Okay, there is a chance it would work. It would depend on the mindset of the "town fathers" (or mothers) then.

Or you change the "town fathers" to get rid of the "mother"! [mrgreen] That is what they did in Carver! [Not trying to be sexist, it just didn't play as well by being "equal opportunity" for my example. For those that need a score-card . . . the gun owners ran two pro-2A candidates against the selectmen up for re-election, and won these keys seats on the 2A issue. The new BOS gave the chief "marching orders", she didn't like it and left (by choice or by force, I don't know).]

 

[Len-2A Training]

That's what I wanted to hear!! I KNOW several of the town government leaders have ALP permits (grandfathered) and are 2a supporters. I'll start writing letters as soon as I get my less than ALP permit.

Matt

Matt, I'll make a suggestion here.

I do NOT recommend writing letters, what I do recommend is holding a few "one-on-one" meetings with the key players and ask them to make the changes. I have found that very effective.

- It doesn't bruise egos, which usually causes people to put their backs to the wall and fight you.

- It allows them to say "it was their idea" and save face . . . very important to people in all levels of politics.

- It puts the key players on notice that they will be held accountable.

All legislation is decided "In the back rooms" . . . thus my approach is a "back room approach" and I have seen great results with it.

In spite of what I write on forums, I write damn few letters to anyone. I do make my points clearly to those in power but usually on the more casual level of phone or FTF discussions.

 

[matt]

Len,

Small town politics in my town can get ugly. You are right, starting with a FTF conversation would probably be better.

I need to join GOAL (for multiple reasons) and get the packet for CofP you mentioned to me in another thread. I'll give it to the CofP and the BOS.

I'll need to think about a strategy for doing this... get some more influential "townies" on my side and get them to make similiar suggestions as appropriate. I'll see if I can work with some people familiar with town politics on getting a viable strategy together.

I like the officer who does the liscensing. I'm sure in his mind he is doing the best thing for the people of the town. He's wrong of course. I'd don't want him to loose his job, just adjust his position to our POV.

Matt

 

[Scrivener]

"I like the officer who does the liscensing [sic]. I'm sure in his mind he is doing the best thing for the people of the town. He's wrong of course. I'd [sic] don't want him to loose [sic] his job, just adjust his position to our POV."

He may truly believe that he is "doing the best thing for the people of the town." More likely, however, is that he thinks he's covering his ass by imposing unauthorized "requirements" and pointless restrictions on the citizens who must subject themselves to his whims and delusions.

A better approach is disproving his misconceptions - to the extent he recognizes logic and any authority other than himself - by citing chapter and verse from the MGL and Ron Glidden's book. I always make reference to Glidden's manual, down to the section and page, when preparing the addendum for the reason for issuance.

Makes for a really nice exhibit in a pleading, too..........

 

[Rob Boudrie]

ALP, etc.

One of the most important decisions an applicant needs to make when going for a MA LTC/ALP is "do you use the services of an attorney to prepare, or at least review, your application prior to submittion."

If you are confident that your application is not going to run into problems based on your knowledge of the licensing authority, and how your background and qualifications will be received, it can make sense to go it alone.

If the licensing authority is reluctant to grant ALPs, and you have made a decision that you will not file a district court appeal or negotiate further with the issuing authority if issued a restricted license, it can also make sense to go it alone.

BUT....

If there is any questionable item in your background, or if your licensing authority is reluctant to issue ALPs and you have made the decision that you will appeal if issued a restricted permit, don't try to save money by foregoing a legal consultation to review your initial application. Each attorney has their own strategy for appeals - find one you feel comfortable with and can afford, and have that person review your application prior to submission. That way, the attorney will not have to "undo" damage gone in the initial application, or present information at the appeal which should already be in the application.

Remember, there are two basic types of appeals:

- Appealing the denial of an issuance of a license

- Appealing the issuance of a restricted license.

If you are qualified, you have a good chance at the first. The second one is very hard to accomplish, and a good attorney will be realistic about his/her track record and your chances of success.

And, if you think you can handle a court hearing along, I offer this true story of an applicant who was appealing a restriction without assistance of counsel:

Police Chief: I don't understand why we're here. I issued this person an LTC.

Applicant: Yes, but...

Court: That's it, case dismissed, next please

Applicant: But...

Court: I said case dismissed.

 

[matt]

Schrivner: I'm a better engineer than I am a speller fortunately... I'll let you spell check my correspndance with the BOS on this, how' that?

Ron,

The problem is no matter what I'll fall into the secon case, having to fight a futile battle for a ALP vs Hunting/Target. The CofP is simply not giving ALP but has no problem with Class A, hunting/target. I agree an appeal on this seems a hopeless approach based on what I've read.

So... that means I have try an alternate route: Change his opinion, as Shrivner says, or at least change the opinion of the people who sign his pay check.

As this is not likely to happen right away, I'll wait till my liscense issues (so at least I can have something) and then pursue some policy change. It is likely a harder battle, but if I win it, I end up with a better over all position than an individual appeal. I get to email the guys at packing.org and tell them my town is a GREEN town now!

That's better for everyone I think! I agree its far fetched, but what other course do I have realisticly?

Matt

 

[mark056]

I think that you have received some excellent advice regarding the course of action that you want to pursue. Face to face meetings are good, and so is getting the help of an attorney.

I think, however, that you need to be prepared for the fact that some towns are not going to give in because of the views held by the selectmen themselves. Also, people who live in cities might be more disadvantaged, as you are dealing with a mayor and a city council...I don't know.

I definitely think that it is worth trying, though. You have nothing to lose.

Good luck,

Mark

 

[matt]

It is a BOS I'd be dealing with. At least 1 of the selectmen has a LTC, as does the town moderator. Two of the BOS are on the Town Republican Committee I am the treasurer of (not a guaranty of anything, but at least it is a connection).

Keep the advice coming!! I'm starting to get jazzed up for this...

My guess is if I hit the ground running and fully loaded with good back up material it would take at least a year to affect some change, but better late than never.

 

[matt]

Well, I have my chance to make a move now!

The COP retired and the search for a new one has started. Lets see if we can't convince them to get a pro-2A COP for the next one!

Matt

 

[Lynne]

Well, I have my chance to make a move now!

The COP retired and the search for a new one has started. Lets see if we can't convince them to get a pro-2A COP for the next one!

Matt

You go son, and good luck!!