Which self-defense ammo.....

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Northeastamstaffs said:
ok guys, I'm looking to choose my self defense ammo when I CC.... My question is what do you guys use as your self defense carry ammo and why? Thanks in advance, Jerry

forgot to add in 9mm
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Speer GDHP 124 gr +P (even the std pressure is good, too)
Winchester Ranger RA9TA 127gr +P+
Fed HST 124 gr +P (or std pressure)

Those would be my top 3 picks. (not necessarily in order, either) There are others that work well, too, but these have always tested very well.

As a general rule I stay away from anything I can't purchase in an "LE Style" box of 50. That's more of a principle thing than anything else.... I just don't like getting ripped off. The little shitty 20 round boxes of defense ammo are usually big ****ing cash cows for distributors and ammo companies. They screw the gun shops that buy them and then the gun shops have to pass on this screwing to the consumer. [sad2]

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
Speer GDHP 124 gr +P (even the std pressure is good, too)
Winchester Ranger RA9TA 127gr +P+
Fed HST 124 gr +P (or std pressure)

Those would be my top 3 picks. (not necessarily in order, either) There are others that work well, too, but these have always tested very well.

As a general rule I stay away from anything I can't purchase in an "LE Style" box of 50. That's more of a principle thing than anything else.... I just don't like getting ripped off. The little shitty 20 round boxes of defense ammo are usually big ****ing cash cows for distributors and ammo companies. They screw the gun shops that buy them and then the gun shops have to pass on this screwing to the consumer. [sad2]

-Mike
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Yup. If it's not sold/marketed to LE, I don't want it. The ridiculous pricing on 20/25 round boxes is one reason. The common lack of independent testing is another. For example, I've seen some really crappy independent testing of Hornady Critical Defense. http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887 is an awesome resource on this stuff. DocGKR, the guy who runs that thread, does independent ammo testing for police departments.

Here in a nutshell is why I'd avoid hornady critical defense:
According to Steve Johnson, Hornady Marketing Communications Manager, the Critical Defense line of handgun ammunition:
"...is not designed to shoot through glass, is not designed to shoot through a car door, and is not designed to shoot through a wall. If you have to shoot through something like that in a personal defense situation you're probably going to jail."
 
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147gr Hydra shock and TAP get used in my SR9c and 229. That said, 124 gr HP do group slightly better for me from those guns. I like Ranger Talons but never seem to find any in 9mm.
 
winter said:
Winchester PDX1 has great ballistics and expansion in .38spl, 9mm, and .45csl. Best bang for the buck.. cant beat it at 15-16$ per 20rds. stay away from it in .380acp because it plugs and does not properly expand most of the time.
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I been using this Duty and Carry.
 
jar said:
***snip***

Here in a nutshell is why I'd avoid hornady critical defense:
According to Steve Johnson, Hornady Marketing Communications Manager, the Critical Defense line of handgun ammunition:
"...is not designed to shoot through glass, is not designed to shoot through a car door, and is not designed to shoot through a wall. If you have to shoot through something like that in a personal defense situation you're probably going to jail."
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Is that to say you would like to shoot through glass, car doors, walls and go to jail? Curious as to your thinking on this matter?

All the training I have received indicates that ammunition that can "shoot through" your target and injure/kill another person is not a good idea.
 
If anyone knows where to get Federal HST in 9mm please let me know. I thought it was unavailable to non-gubmint types now.
 
Zappa said:
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In a hand-held delivery system, I'd take tungsten carbide tipped tungsten penetrator over DU. You're not shooting at anything hard enough and the bullet isn't traveling fast enough to ignite the DU round, so it's just hard and heavy.
 
TReischl said:
Is that to say you would like to shoot through glass, car doors, walls and go to jail? Curious as to your thinking on this matter?

All the training I have received indicates that ammunition that can "shoot through" your target and injure/kill another person is not a good idea.
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Then whoever trained you is full of shit, because any ammo worth carrying has enough penetration to go through a typical human torso. (look at any balgel test of decent ammo and you will see why.) You can't have it both ways, that's the problem.

Besides, Jar is talking about intermediate barrier penetration, not overpenetration. There's a difference. Intermediate barriers are things like car doors, auto glass, etc. However unlikely it might be that you have to shoot through one of these barriers, why not have a bullet better designed for the task?

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
Then whoever trained you is full of shit, because any ammo worth carrying has enough penetration to go through a typical human torso. (look at any balgel test of decent ammo and you will see why.) You can't have it both ways, that's the problem.

Besides, Jar is talking about intermediate barrier penetration, not overpenetration. There's a difference. Intermediate barriers are things like car doors, auto glass, etc. However unlikely it might be that you have to shoot through one of these barriers, why not have a bullet better designed for the task?

-Mike
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Exactly. The statement just smacks of, oh, the good stuff isn't for you mere civilians. There are certainly valid self defense reasons to shoot through barriers, especially auto glass, since it's, you know, transparent.
 
Northeastamstaffs said:
ok guys, I'm looking to choose my self defense ammo when I CC.... My question is what do you guys use as your self defense carry ammo and why? Thanks in advance, Jerry

forgot to add in 9mm
Click to expand...

Bullets- Any type I have in HP because they all work[grin]
 
Critical Duty vs. Critical Defense:

http://www.hornady.com/support/critical-duty-and-critical-defense

Critical DEFENSE® = Personal Protection/Concealed Carry

Critical DEFENSE® handgun ammunition was developed to provide the best performance for DEFENSIVE or PERSONAL PROTECTION SITUATIONS and is the ultimate choice for any short barreled, concealed carry style firearm.

The FTX® bullets loaded in all Critical Defense® handgun ammunition are designed to expand and provide the terminal performance needed for close encounters often associated with personal protection situations. Additionally, Critical DEFENSE® is not intended for use in extreme (law enforcement) situations that require superior barrier performance.* However, the FTX® bullet will expand reliably and will not clog like standard hollow point bullets when fired through heavy clothing.* In addition, Critical DEFENSE® ammunition IS optimized for short barreled, concealed carry style handguns and will not deliver excessive recoil and associated “muzzle flip.”

*As defined by the “FBI Protocol” handgun ammunition tests.

Critical DutyCritical DUTY® = Tactical

Critical DUTY® handgun ammunition is built to meet the needs and requirements of LAW ENFORCEMENT and TACTICAL PROFESSIONALS, as well as those law abiding citizens who prefer a full-size handgun for their personal protection and demand superior barrier penetration and subsequent terminal performance.*

The FlexLock® bullets loaded in all Critical DUTY® offerings are rugged, heavy jacketed bullets that deliver virtually “barrier blind” performance (i.e. total penetration, weight retention and expansion are practically the same) when shot through common urban barriers* (bare gelatin, auto glass, sheet metal, plywood, drywall, heavy clothing*). In addition, Critical DUTY® loads are “full power loads” designed to function full-size handgun slides. Although designed to work flawlessly in ALL handguns, these loads are NOT optimized for short barreled, concealed carry style handguns; they will deliver standard recoil during firing.
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ivarr said:
i personally prefer federal hydrashok over everything else, and have since the mid eighties
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Are you a time traveller?

I ask because it appears that Federal has sold the jacketed, posted Hydro-Shoks only since 1989.

Edit: Before that, it looks like a non-jacketed version was sold as a component by someone else (Allient Techsystems?) likely under the same trade-mark.

Edit2: And before that, it looks like Hydro-Shok Inc produced and licensed an all-lead version, even though the 1974 patent claims a jacket. So you would have been shooting a different bullet with the same name before 89.

Did some fun research for this snarky reply.
 
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My M&P 9c loves all HST, Gold Dot, and Ranger (and basically everything else I feed through it). For colder months you can't go wrong with Gold Dots or HSTs, they seem to be least affected by heavier clothing in the tests I've seen. It's really personal choice though, some like lighter & faster rounds with higher energy transfer (usually at the cost of penetration), some like knowing that the round will punch all the way through to the vitals and then some. Check out TNOUTDOORS9 on youtube for great reviews!! The choice is ultimately yours, stay safe.
 
Jesus, some of you guys have got to get with the times. Hydra-shok was a state of the art first generation hollow point in the 1980s. There are a ton of better rounds out there that expand better, penetrate deeper, don't shed their jackets, and don't get plugged up.

Ranger-T, HST, Gold Dot, and Golden Saber are all better choices.
 
I'm always looking for some Ranger-T and HST, but I've yet to see it anywhere. I'll keep searching.
 
sevenMMmag said:
Jesus, some of you guys have got to get with the times. Hydra-shok was a state of the art first generation hollow point in the 1980s. There are a ton of better rounds out there that expand better, penetrate deeper, don't shed their jackets, and don't get plugged up.

Ranger-T, HST, Gold Dot, and Golden Saber are all better choices.
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I'd love to get some Ranger-T to test in 10mm, haven't been able to find any.

Golden Sabers in 10mm seem to like to shed their jacket when fired into wax or water. (one of the problems of shooting bullets designed for 40 S&W out of a 10mm)
 
ChrisATX said:
Anything not 9 mm.
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And what is wrong with 9mm? This is 2012 not 1911... Ballistics of the 9mm surpass that of .38spl, a round that is trusted and proven by countless LEOs and sheepdogs over the past many decades. And 9mm is hella cheaper than .45cal.
 
It depends on what gun you are shooting and what you need from your ammo. What works well in one gun may not work in others. I found a cartridge that works well in my 380. It is a +p hollowpoint, shoots well, is accurate, functions in the gun perfectly, low recoil for ease of follow up shots etc. I like it a lot so I bought boxes in 9mm and 45. The 9 works good in 3 out of the four 9s I carry. The 45 doesn't work well at all in my 45. It kicks like a 44 magnum, the hollowpoints hang up on the feed ramp and for whatever reason the empties pop straight up and land on me. None of the other 45 cartridges I've shot have ever done that. It doesn't matter what anyone else says about that ammo. If it doesn't work for me it I need to find something else. Nobody else can determine what will work for you. You have to do the research and prove to yourself that your choice will do what you want it to when you want it to.
 

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