What is the point of birdshot?
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Which is a better house gun?
- Thread starter MaxStravinsky
- Start date
What is the point of birdshot?
ChevyGuy91
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Piss the guy off.
1. Some people still think birdshot is an effective means of self defense.
2. Some people still think warning shots are a good idea.
3. Some people still think Milli Vanilli really sang in " Girl you know it's true".
At defensive distances (under 7yds) the shot pattern remains relatively tight and 1oz of shot makes a good size hole.
My biggest concern with any type of round is over-penetration. I want the round to stay in the target.
Some ammo manufacturers are selling Defensive rounds loaded with #6 shot.
1) If it will do enough damage to kill someone, it will go through walls.
2) Who? Remington? Their "ULTIMATE HD" loading? It's repackaged turkey loads, and it's dumb.
Birdshot is meant to take down birds, like pheasant and quail.
Buckshot is meant to take down deer.
Which of those two, do you think, is better suited to killing a human being? The load meant for 10lb birds, or for 200lbs of steak on the hoof?
Everyone says this when shooting paper. Shoot some other stuff with it and then come back to us.
The problem is time and time again, things which don't have capability of overpenetration are typically inadequate stoppers.
I wouldn't want to get shot with birdshot, but have fun with that up against a doper or whatever.
IMO the only way that birdshot can stop reliably is if you have perfect robocop/terminator aim and can guarantee that you can pump that shot into the guy's face every time.
Go to salvation army or something and buy an old heavy coat, and a couple of sweatshirts, fasten them to a panel, and put the rump roast, or whatever, behind it, shoot it from 10-20 feet, and see how much damage it doesn't do.
Yes, and magsafe sells tons of ammunition every year that is the worst garbage ever to be loaded into a cartridge. Even if a respected manufacturer loads it, doesn't mean that it's any good. Hell, Winchester is still making and selling the 9mm 115 gr Silvertip, which is one of the worst defensive loads you can buy.
-Mike
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I'm in the shotgun camp as the best for HD but since this has turned into a which ammunition is best for home defense I will throw in the FN fiveseven and the 5.7x28mm cartridge. Low recoil leads to easy follow up shots, the option for highly frangible ammo (Elite Ammunition VarmTOR) and in non commie states the ability to load 20 or 30 rounds.
here's some ballistics stuff for the 5.7 on 4 layers of denim. Brass Fetcher 5.7X28mm
Please commence the .22 magnum flaming
here's some ballistics stuff for the 5.7 on 4 layers of denim. Brass Fetcher 5.7X28mm
Please commence the .22 magnum flaming
ChevyGuy91
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At least you know it is coming.
It seems acceptable for rifle rounds which fragment. I don't believe M193 55gr ball will make more than 6-9" out of a 14.5" barrel, but nobody seriously contends 5.56 is insufficient for 50-100 meters.
The question becomes: does the velocity, energy and fragmentation of 5.7x28 justify the jump from pistol to rifle standards?
M193 doesn't always fragment, sometimes it just tumbles/yaws in tissue, and it often penetrates a lot more than 6-9". The bullet weighs double what the 5.7 weighs, or even more, if you decide to use 75 grainers, and it's going faster, too, at least out something with a reasonable barrel.
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Mass-diver
NES Member
Although I have had a winchester defender (pump shotgun) as my house gun for years, sooner or later I'm going to switch to my AR. With a white light on it and an always-on optic (like my aimpoint micro) I think the AR is perfect. If I knew in advanced that a couple people were coming in tonight to kill my family tonight, I sure as heck would be readying the AR, not my shotgun or any of my pistols.
What 5.56 rounds would you suggest for this purpose?
a heavy OTM load is good for defensive purposes.
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm
the above link is one of the definitive sources on defensive ammo
That is an AWESOME website! No BS, just actual test shots into a realistic simulation of interior walls. Thanks for the link!
Mass-diver
NES Member
This is what I use. It's expensive - but I think it's worth it to have a couple 30 rounders of it ready to go.....
I got some, but then I learned that the 55gr TAP uses a ballistic tip VMAX bullet.
from the ar15.com ammo oracle: http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/term_expanding.html
Mass-diver
NES Member
I live in a condo so I'm super paranoid about over penetration, so for me if TAP helps even a little bit it's worth it. At the ranges I'm talking about (point blank) I'm not at all concerned about the round not being effective if I hit what I'm aiming at.
My 2 cents on the best home defense firearm
If I may offer my opinion on the best home defense firearm, I strongly suggest the Mossberg 500/590 with either a T-6 or cruiser stock stoked with a bean bag followed-up with #6 2 3/4" birdshot. As the saying goes, "nobody argues with a .72 cal rifle".
If the mear intimidation factor doesn't do the job, the bag will put 'em down with a major hurt. If it's necessary to go to the next level, the birdshot will remain a clump of lead for the length of your stairway or hallway...why shoot 9mm or .45 in the house when the projectile will go ripping through the place where your family or dog could catch a round?. Drywall will soak-up 95% of the shot so your wife or children don't.
Imagine...and I speak from experience...the most terrifying sound to a crackhead in the dark, quiet of the night is the sound of a pump being primed.
I call my M590A1 "the dentist". The knucklehead who somehow managed to pry my back door open dropped his .25 Raven looked at me and the muzzle shoved in his face in abject horrow and said (really!) "I thought this was the dentist's office". He was dragged off by the locals and is doing some 20 years for felon in possession of drugs & firearm, 2 outstanding burglary warrants, and disturbing my sleep.
If I may offer my opinion on the best home defense firearm, I strongly suggest the Mossberg 500/590 with either a T-6 or cruiser stock stoked with a bean bag followed-up with #6 2 3/4" birdshot. As the saying goes, "nobody argues with a .72 cal rifle".
If the mear intimidation factor doesn't do the job, the bag will put 'em down with a major hurt. If it's necessary to go to the next level, the birdshot will remain a clump of lead for the length of your stairway or hallway...why shoot 9mm or .45 in the house when the projectile will go ripping through the place where your family or dog could catch a round?. Drywall will soak-up 95% of the shot so your wife or children don't.
Imagine...and I speak from experience...the most terrifying sound to a crackhead in the dark, quiet of the night is the sound of a pump being primed.
I call my M590A1 "the dentist". The knucklehead who somehow managed to pry my back door open dropped his .25 Raven looked at me and the muzzle shoved in his face in abject horrow and said (really!) "I thought this was the dentist's office". He was dragged off by the locals and is doing some 20 years for felon in possession of drugs & firearm, 2 outstanding burglary warrants, and disturbing my sleep.
Dream to Dream
NES Member
Nothing is certain but death and taxes... and that someone will suggest the above at least once in every home defense thread.
Good call!
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W
wolf223
how many rounds of 9mm or .45 auto have you shot inside a house? was it JHP or FMJ?
