Which CZ for home defense?

[drgrant]

This x1000. I can't even imagine what it would do to the poor dogs. The thought of shooting an un-suppressed AR, without any hearing protection, is a great big no for me even at the range, let alone in the house with the windows closed.
Between the noise and over penetration, I am going to stick to a handgun.

Lol @ overpen, a typical 5.56 round like an XM193 is actually less likely to overpenetrate vs a 9mm handgun round even. When light rifle bullets hit walls or other solid objects they tend to either disentegrate and go off course etc. Will it leave your house? Probably- but a 9mm or a .45 etc will do it almost EVERY time, so what difference does it make, functionally? The other fun thing is "wah overpenetration" is so sauced up memetically to the point of absurdity; and it always ignores the fact that bullets that can't exit at least a couple layers of building materials are typically terrible stoppers in terms of wound ballistics. There is no free lunch.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

View attachment 257097 Just to close this out. Snagged a great deal on GB to along with AR pistols in 556 and .300, 12 gauge shottie, multiple 44 mags, I have a new home defense option. Hoping to shoot it tomorrow

As another phantom owner, It is a nice gun, albeit a bit weird. Compared to a G17 it has more recoil, tends to drive it straight back into your hand, but IMHO it is just as controllable and probably more
accurate. Reliable as hell, I usually pour several hundred rounds through it and multiple range visits between cleanings, etc. I think you will like it.

-Mike

 

[Varmint]

Tests show otherwise.

.223 Drywall Penetration: Results

A test that uses VMax 40 grain for the .223 test, and ball ammo for the .45? That's not a fair test. Raise your hand if you have VMax 40 grain rounds in your AR?

I think I've seen more fair tests with similar results, but that test is useless imo.

 

[Varmint]

Home defense? A shotgun, an AR or maybe a lever action?
In your house, go big oe go home.

I think it depends on how big your property is.

 

[fencer]

Lol @ overpen, a typical 5.56 round like an XM193 is actually less likely to overpenetrate vs a 9mm handgun round even. When light rifle bullets hit walls or other solid objects they tend to either disentegrate and go off course etc. Will it leave your house? Probably- but a 9mm or a .45 etc will do it almost EVERY time, so what difference does it make, functionally? The other fun thing is "wah overpenetration" is so sauced up memetically to the point of absurdity; and it always ignores the fact that bullets that can't exit at least a couple layers of building materials are typically terrible stoppers in terms of wound ballistics. There is no free lunch.

-Mike

Maybe, but who keeps XM193 loaded in their SHTF mags? I keep my zombie apocalypse mags loaded with 62gr- XM855 green tips. XM193 is cheap range fun. A few years ago when BHO was talking about banning it, at your advice, I laid in "several" cases of green tips. And I sleep pretty well knowing that if I need it, I have a dozen prebans and a few rifles that can be accessed in about 10 seconds.
I have never tested personally, but common sense tells me that a personal defense 45 acp hollow point, moving about 833ft/sec, is going to expand and rapidly slow down, traveling through two layers of sheet rock. I seriously doubt a green tip will slow down very much at all unless it hits a stud, moving at 2400 ft/sec.
I am far less concerned about a round leaving my house as I am about a round going through one of my kids bedroom walls or closets.

Everybody has to make their own choices about what tools and ammo to use, and for what purpose. And I suppose there is no wrong answer as long as you are aware of the characteristics of your firearm and ammo choice. For me, I like to keep my rifles ready to handle a target at distance, loaded with something that will punch through a barrier. Add to that equation the noise an M4gery with a 14" barrel makes, and I am sticking with a handgun loaded with Gold dots, with a good light/laser combo. YMMV

 

[Bonesinium]

A test that uses VMax 40 grain for the .223 test, and ball ammo for the .45? That's not a fair test. Raise your hand if you have VMax 40 grain rounds in your AR?

I think I've seen more fair tests with similar results, but that test is useless imo.

What about the other 5 types of .223 they tested? Or did you not read any further?

 

[drgrant]

Maybe, but who keeps XM193 loaded in their SHTF mags? I keep my zombie apocalypse mags loaded with 62gr- XM855 green tips. XM193 is cheap range fun. A few years ago when BHO was talking about banning it, at your advice, I laid in "several" cases of green tips. And I sleep pretty well knowing that if I need it, I have a dozen prebans and a few rifles that can be accessed in about 10 seconds.
I have never tested personally, but common sense tells me that a personal defense 45 acp hollow point, moving about 833ft/sec, is going to expand and rapidly slow down, traveling through two layers of sheet rock. I seriously doubt a green tip will slow down very much at all unless it hits a stud, moving at 2400 ft/sec.
I am far less concerned about a round leaving my house as I am about a round going through one of my kids bedroom walls or closets.

Everybody has to make their own choices about what tools and ammo to use, and for what purpose. And I suppose there is no wrong answer as long as you are aware of the characteristics of your firearm and ammo choice. For me, I like to keep my rifles ready to handle a target at distance, loaded with something that will punch through a barrier. Add to that equation the noise an M4gery with a 14" barrel makes, and I am sticking with a handgun loaded with Gold dots, with a good light/laser combo. YMMV

I do. (as secondary to TAP FPD 75gr because thst shits costly but great....)

M855 is horrendously bad (in relative terms) for terminal ballistics inside 100 yards. It's the absolute last round I'd use on an AR set up for HD. It will overpen, and it doesn't yaw or get you bonus damage on soft tissue like others do. You must be thinking of someone else I don't think I've ever recommended people buy green tips in my life. I've always told people that they should buy a shitload of ammo in general though...

I also know people who have fired pistol bullets through the side of buildings/houses by accident. let's just put it this way the rounds didn't stop and they exited the building. I've seen 9mm, .40, and .45... all with high quality hp ammo. That shit doesn't expand unless you have corpses buried in your walls or your walls are filled with jugs of water.... unless it hit something hard like brick or a big chunk of steel damn bullet will just keep going. I just think this myth of handgun bullets not penetrating buildings needs to kind of die a horrible death.... basically anything worth shooting at a bad guy will penetrate the side of your house....unless its made out of really hard materials.

-Mike

 

[TomMontana]

A few years ago when BHO was talking about banning it, at your advice, I laid in "several" cases of green tips.

LOL. I fell for it too. Not blaming anyone for my purchase decisions. And it wasn't even cheap. Been blasting it and now down to a few boxes remaining.

 

[Varmint]

What about the other 5 types of .223 they tested? Or did you not read any further?

I didn't see that, got to 7.62 and figured they were done. But looking at the end, they tested only 1 .45 round (ball) and one 9mm. So what's the point testing so many .223 rounds?

 

[fencer]

LOL. I fell for it too. Not blaming anyone for my purchase decisions. And it wasn't even cheap. Been blasting it and now down to a few boxes remaining.

Oh I am not blaming anyone for sure, and I like 855. It will punch through a lot of stuff like auto glass and brush. If your target is taking cover behind a car door, or driving a car, the steel core will probably stay more stable at range.
And while I agree that XM193 will probably cause more tissue damage at close range, my thinking is that at close range, I can shoot very tight groups with ease with an AR. It really doesn't matter if the projectile expands if it passes through the targets forehead or heart.

Everyone makes home defense decisions based on what they are comfortable with. I know an AR is a solid choice, I have just never really considered it my best option for home defense.

 

[slap shot]

Update: got a hidden hybrid holster during the Black Friday sale and it’s beautiful. The fit, the ease of holstering, the retention, comfort all beyond any holster I own. So comfortable I might be carrying this once I put some rounds through it.

 

[fencer]

That is a sweet set up.

 

[Woodfloor]

CZ? SP01 75, steel or polyamer. What ever caliber you are comfortable with.

Who cares about noise when you are defending your family?

 

[GLOCK-22]

I use these both 9mm

 

[Glockster30]

View attachment 257097 Just to close this out. Snagged a great deal on GB to along with AR pistols in 556 and .300, 12 gauge shottie, multiple 44 mags, I have a new home defense option. Hoping to shoot it tomorrow

So, do you like it?

 

[MMArtist]

Drooled over the CZs as a mass hole and now I'm ready to get one or more. Which one first though? Stopped in to 619 after work tonight and too many choices so I grabbed an m&p 22 compact threaded to play with inbound suppressor and help me think. So, P09 with its massive capacity and full size for home defence? P07 smaller package and 17 rds with +2? Is it better than g17? Is it better than my Canik tp9sf with aftermarket mags? I think I saw 20s? Shadow? I don't compete but maybe I would? Really wanted to buy one tonight but paralysis by analysis. Classic 75 steel?

For HD? The Bren

 

[slap shot]

For HD? The Bren

Bren is fantastic, have 2 friends in Mass with them and I have shot. If i was still in Mass i'd have one but for the price of a standard AR, and the enjoyment i get slapping them together, i go that route. Home defense at this point is 5 Portuguese water dogs, 300 blackout pistol, suppressed pretty soon i hope, and the CZ75 Sp-01 phantom with 37 hollow points. 18 + 18 + 1. Various shotties and others depending on which room.

 

[slap shot]

So, do you like it?

yes, i love it, found a nice holster from hidden hybrids. fits my hand perfectly and the single action trigger is very nice. good sights

 

[Glockster30]

yes, i love it, found a nice holster from hidden hybrids. fits my hand perfectly and the single action trigger is very nice. good sights

How's the double action pull? I read it's a long pull in excess of 12 lbs. (user measured with a Lyman digital that topped out at 12).

 

[slap shot]

How's the double action pull? I read it's a long pull in excess of 12 lbs. (user measured with a Lyman digital that topped out at 12).

It makes a good safety after decocked. I just pulled out my cheap Wheeler scale and it pegs it but it only goes to 8 pounds. Most reviews have it around 11. I haven’t shot much in DA. Compared to 4.5 single it’s noticeable.

I can tell you it’s nothing like my Shield before Dave Santurri applied his magic.