What's the difference

1903Collector

1903Collector

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I am thinking about getting a mosin-nagant rifle, but there seem to be a few different types and I don't know much about these rifles. Can anyone give a a breif explanation of the different types (M44, 91/30, finn etc). Ammo suggestions.Thanks[grin]
Walter...
 
I'm a long way from an expert on Mosin's but I have 2...a 38 and a Finn 39 shown here.

3839.jpg


The 39 is slightly longer than the 38 and much more accurate I'm told. (they're all more accurate than I am). The 39's are seemingly much better made. The stocks can be a work of art with the fancy finger grooving that is used to join the different pieces of wood. Most of the 38's and 44's have laminated stocks.

The 44 is basically the same thing as the 38 except it has a fixed, folding bayonet where the 38's didn't.

The 91/30 is the full length rifle. The 38,39,44's are all more or less carbine length.

I'm sure others will have a lot more to say.
 
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I'd start with one of the more rare and less likely to be around in a few years Mosins like the 91/59, the Finn variants, or the few unissued Polish M44s that are floating around on some sites. Notice I said "start with" because Mosins are cheap and addictive and you will wind up with a few.[smile]
Do you have a C&R? If so I'll PM you where to get diferent models from.
Also, do you want one for accuracy, collectability, or just to have one?
 
Thanks MforM
I actually picked up a M44 at Northeast Trading today for a great price (wish I could find 03s at those prices) and oodles of ammo for cheap! It looks brand new. Hope it snows a lot tomorrow so I can stay home and clean it!

I was just looking for a shooter, of course I once said that about 1903s and now I have a wall full of them. I do have a C&R. I have never fired this round before, how is it compared to .06 or the .308win? I would like to get a non carbine version (not sure of the nomenclature) some time in the near future, any suggestions?
 
7.62X54R is more or less the same power as a .30-06 or a .308 Win.

A lot will depend on the load, I've had some ammo that tosses a brilliant fireball and kicks like a mule, and others that seems to be underpowered.

The M44 will probably kick more than your '03s simply because its a lot lighter. If you don't like it, go see a doctor, as there is probably somthing wrong with you [smile]

Arrrr

-Weer'd Beard
 
Milsurps is correct - grab a good one first and then fill in the holes after.

My best ( of 4 ) Mosin is my M39 Finnish. I paid more than what I should have but the condition was good. The M39's are the creme of the crop for Mosins. They have the better sights, heavier construction, and a better stock than the Russian ones have. It's an excellent shooter with Czech silver-tipped light ball.

The M91/30's with the laminated stocks are some of the prettiest to look at. I have a 1942 Ishevsk that has the post-war laminated stock on it and it is the best looking Mosin I've seen. The condition on this one was excellent and it shoots good.

The Holy Grail of the Mosins ( at least to me ) are the sniper versions. The real deal Mosins with the correct codes and parts are expensive, going for over $700+ for one in GOOD condition. I cheated and got one of the replicas from Interordnance for $399. Once you get used to the bent bolt handle it's hard to go back to the straight! I put a Huber Concepts trigger in it to fix the horrible stock Mosin trigger pull ( The real snipers don't have a bad pull - the replicas are rack rifles made to look like the real - too bad they didn't do the trigger work on them.)

Mosins are cheap right now and ammo is plentiful for them also. The Czech silver tip is the best stuff that I like and look for it constantly. The Hungarian light ball is also good and is around. Some of the Albanian is good yet I have some now that ruptured 3 shell cases at the bottom. The Hungarian heavy ball is good but accuracy might not be good in your gun - it's pays to select a variety to try out.

If you can live with a crappy trigger and a somewhat short bolt handle, the Mosins are nice. I like my peasent rifles! [smile]

Joe R.
 
1903Collector said:
I do have a C&R. I have never fired this round before, how is it compared to .06 or the .308win? I would like to get a non carbine version (not sure of the nomenclature) some time in the near future, any suggestions?
Click to expand...

The only think I have that kicks harder than my Mosin carbines is my M95 Steyr.[grin]
I'm going to send you a few links for some of the top places to get a Mosin from. Avoid getting one at a gun show or shop unless the price is right or you just have to have it because its mint or has great markings and wood.
The biggest problem with Mosin Nagants is "sticky bolt syndrome". Its where after a few rounds have been fired, the bolt sometimes gets hard to open. Often resulting in having to whack it upwards with the palm of your hand. Some people think this is why you sometimes see films and pictures of right handed shooting Russian soldiers using their left hands to reach over the top of the rifle and pull the bolt open.
There are many ideas why some Mosins have sticky bolts. Some think its poor machining usually found in mid to late war rifles, some thing its dirt or grease hardened in the chamber, and some think its the ammo being used.
I have some Mosins that give me a hard time with any ammo I try, some that only do it on yellow/silver tip, and some that can only shoot brass cased ammo w/out problems. I've been shooting the Polish light grain stuff that was around recently at dirt cheap prices. I stocked up.[smile]
Unless you're going to load your own, its best to get diferent types of surplus 7.62x54 and try as many as you can to find one that shoots best and has the overall best results.
One other note on Mosins is that some models (especially the Finn marked rifles) have shims placed under the barrel. These are usually folded paper and were put there for a reason. I've found them in 2 Mosins so far out of the 10 or so I've owned. The first time I thought it was garbage from the arsenal and tossed it. That rifle shot like crap and after reading about armorers shimming rifles I found out the hard way. The next time I found one under a barrel, I left it and had no problems shooting that particular rifle.
 
Milsurps 4 Me said:
Notice I said "start with" because Mosins are cheap and addictive and you will wind up with a few.[smile]
Click to expand...

You got that right. I first started with a 1944 M44, then it was a 91/59, then a Chinese Type 53, and I have a 1946 M44 on the way. First you'll start with getting one from every country, then every year and then every factory.[laugh]

MN are pretty much your best bang for your buck. SKS's are alot of fun too.
 
Weer'd Beard said:
7.62X54R is more or less the same power as a .30-06 or a .308 Win.

A lot will depend on the load, I've had some ammo that tosses a brilliant fireball and kicks like a mule, and others that seems to be underpowered.

The M44 will probably kick more than your '03s simply because its a lot lighter. If you don't like it, go see a doctor, as there is probably somthing wrong with you [smile]

Arrrr

-Weer'd Beard
Click to expand...

[rofl] [rofl] [rofl] [rofl] [rofl2] [rofl2]

Fred
 
I would buy a Finn Mosin and have some fun. They are in my opinion the cream of the crop. I own quite a few of these rifles. They will shoot as good as any new rifle on the market with the right ammo if it has a good bore. Next would be a M91/30. The M91/30 is a fine shooter. It's longer and does not kick as much as the shorter carbines. I believe it is more accurate than any of the M91/59, M44, M38's out there. The ammo problems lie with the shellac around the neck of the bullet. The shellac transfers to the chamber and will glue your spent round in the chamber after 10 or so rounds. The secret to prevent this is to get that casing out of the chamber immediately after firing a round. Another solution is not to use this type of ammo all together. Another item to check is to make sure the cocking ramp is oiled. Polishing the ramp on botht he bolt and cocking piece helps out the action also. Handloads are the best way to go if you reload. Then you can tailor your rounds to the rifle if the bore is worn. If you stumble across a Finn M28/30, slug the bore. These rifles were made with a .3082 diameter bore. Using .310 ammo in them will increase the pressure. Need I say that you will know there is something wrong if you pull the trigger with a .310 bulet in a .3082 bore. You will feel that the rifle is shooting much harder than normal and the sound seems to thump a bit more. I found out by doing just that. I could tell the rifle was not acting right. A quick slugging of the bore solved that problem. I now reload using .308 heads for that rifle. A good Finn M39 with a nice bore will make a great shooter also.
 
JimR said:
If you stumble across a Finn M28/30, slug the bore. These rifles were made with a .3082 diameter bore. Using .310 ammo in them will increase the pressure. Need I say that you will know there is something wrong if you pull the trigger with a .310 bulet in a .3082 bore. You will feel that the rifle is shooting much harder than normal and the sound seems to thump a bit more. I found out by doing just that. I could tell the rifle was not acting right. A quick slugging of the bore solved that problem. I now reload using .308 heads for that rifle. A good Finn M39 with a nice bore will make a great shooter also.
Click to expand...

I can't remember but doesn't the D stamping on Finn Mosins indicate the bore was reworked for different diameter bullets?
 
Milsurps 4 Me said:
I can't remember but doesn't the D stamping on Finn Mosins indicate the bore was reworked for different diameter bullets?
Click to expand...


The neck length was lenghtened if the "D" is present. You will find the "D" on most Finnish rifles. The older rfiles may not have it if it has not not been rechambered. The early Finns were chambered slightly shorter. If you run across one of these unstamped Finns you may feel resistance when chambering a round in it.
 
Jim:

Do you shoot any surplus through the 28/30 ? If so, would the light ball be better through these than the heavy ball? I haven't done alot of experimenting with mine yet, but I want to work up some loads. What components do you use for yours?
 
The first thing you wan to do is slug the bore to find out what diameter it is. This can be done by pushing a 12 Ga 00 buck round down thru the bore. Buy a 3 foot 1/4" wooden dowel. Cut off a 6-8" piece. This is your starter rod. Tap the ball into the bore using a hammer and the short rod. Use the longer piece of rod to push the ball the rest of the way through the bore. Mic it up and see what your bore measures. If it is near .310 then use milsurp ammo. If it is .3082-.309 I would handload for it using .308 bullet heads. I try to use 168gr JHPBT and 48 grains of IMR 4895 powder. I use the same powder for .310 bullets for my other Finns. If you have a .312 bore on any Finn rifles use .303 bullet heads. They are .313 and work great in oversize bores. Shooting the light ball would be better than heavy ball if the bore is small. You will get a good WOOMPH if the bore .3082 and you use heavy ball. I do not think this is good for the shooter or the rifle.
 

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