Oh the humanity!Japanese houses are made of paper walls! CO2 will bleed through the walls.
Anyone got a match?
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What's my best option for heating if the power goes out?
- Thread starter TonyDedo
- Start date
MetalgodZ
NES Member
Yup. Definitely the way to go. Just make sure that you go with a true sine wave setup, or you're setting yourself up for shortening the lifespan of the blower and controls.
Agreed. If I had kids, I wouldn't be leaving loaded firearms OR lit kero heaters around when I wasn't watching them, though. There were opinions asked for and given...that's all.
1) Anything you do w/o a permit can earn you an insurance non-payment in this f*cking state. I'd CERTAINLY never fail to permit my work when I replace wiring on a one-for-one basis, replace or repair an exterior door or window, replace a gas stove, or fix a leaking sink.Yeah... watch how fast an insurance claim gets denied if something DOES happen with one of those illegal heating units. And he survives to make a claim. Not to mention what the reaction of the condo association will be if a maintenance mammal comes in and happens to see one of those illegal units parked in Tony's condo.
Seriously, folks... recommending someone deliberately break the law?It may or may not be an intelligent law... but you can still get in trouble anyway. If you're planning to make a stand about laws, at least make it about something you want to live or die for. And no one ever went over the top shouting "For the Kero-sun!"
2) Yet another reason not to live in a condo. Ever.
3) Breaking laws is practically an obligation in this state. The laws are a joke, so I see no issue with someone making a joke of them so long as you're not hurting anyone - I'd like to see them and their kids make it out of the situation alive, obviously.
This. Know how they operate and act accordingly. Hard to believe how many here blather on about mass law for a way to keep your family warm when regular means are not available. Man up and do what you have to to keep your baby warm.
Hmm dangerous and illegal in MA, mine are in Maine, they must be just dangerous, now ya telle after 5 years!
MisterHappy
NES Member
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Here's the Hess locator, centered on Concord (OP's 20), with the Kerosene Filter on.
Hess Express - Store Locator
IIRC it was ~3.50/gal in October, in Natick. Pump and go.
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Here's the Hess locator, centered on Concord (OP's 20), with the Kerosene Filter on.
http://www.hessexpress.com/StoreLocator
IIRC it was ~3.50/gal in October, in Natick. Pump and go.
I grew up in NYC. My father was a bit crazy, and when times were difficult he would heat our apartment with a kerosene heater. This was highly illegal, and, more importantly, very irresponsible; we had 5 gallon containers of kerosene stored in a large apartment building (10+ floors) in Morningside Heights. My point is that even though the air quality in our little apartment was poor, we all survived.
We sometimes heat our job sites in the winter with large kerosene heaters, and I typically buy the kerosene from a local heating oil company. They usually have one pump for kerosene priced between $3-4/gallon. I believe the kerosene at Lowes or Homedepot is much more expensive.
We sometimes heat our job sites in the winter with large kerosene heaters, and I typically buy the kerosene from a local heating oil company. They usually have one pump for kerosene priced between $3-4/gallon. I believe the kerosene at Lowes or Homedepot is much more expensive.
I am in almost the exact same situation as the OP. I have a town home/condo and I have forced hot air gas heat. Legal or not, most condo bylaws strictly forbid space heaters of ANY kind. Would I trust myself to safely run heater inside? Yes. Do I trust my dumbass neighbors whose homes are attached directly to mine to do the same? Hell no! I have considered a small inverter gen. Feeding power directly to the furnace (which has been isolated electrically). The bylaws where I live also forbid storage of combustibles, but not propane grills, so I have considered a smaller propane gen. as well. An inverter gen. running propane would be as close to ideal as possible for my situation. There is also a guy online that you'll find if you search, that has a small bank of sealed batteries that he can run his furnace off of for 3-5 days if I remember correctly, using an inverter.
Edit: found link.http://kissurvival.com/running-your-gas-furnace-from-a-generator-or-inverter/
Edit: found link.http://kissurvival.com/running-your-gas-furnace-from-a-generator-or-inverter/
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Palladin
NES Member
gas heat, warm air, is 120v at 100w max, you're only running the fan & control circuit. A Honda 1000w or 2000w will run that thing all day on a miniscule amount of fuel. the big problem in condos is running wires concealed....the furnace can be setup with a switch to swap the feed to an inlet outside, so you don't have to leave the slider/door open. But you'll probably be introduced to the 'wonders of wiremold'!
Wiremold? Explain.
Look into a kerosene heater.
Remember the ice storm a few years back? It knocked out power at my dad's in northern Arkansas for a *month*. He had just converted from wood burning stove to central heating, so they were screwed on heat.
I sent them a kerosene heater and they ran that thing in their house that whole month to keep warm.
Remember the ice storm a few years back? It knocked out power at my dad's in northern Arkansas for a *month*. He had just converted from wood burning stove to central heating, so they were screwed on heat.
I sent them a kerosene heater and they ran that thing in their house that whole month to keep warm.
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Palladin
NES Member
surface mounted raceway & boxes, as opposed to concealed in the walls
http://www.legrand.us/wiremold/race...aceway/500700-small-raceway.aspx#.USi6djcpmo0
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This thread is very telling. A lot of day ladies posting and whining. By quite a few folk's comments here, myself and my family should be dead. We've used Kero and propane heaters and stoves all of our lives. I still have one in the basement and 2 in our cabin up north. Not one instance of death, illness, or property damage...ever, in all these years. If you're too insecure or unable to care for your family without government intervention, then you deserve what you get.
Many condos will prohibit the use of generators.
Someone stated earlier that most furnaces require 220V. That is not true. I would be very surprised to find a 220V furnace in the vast majority of residential homes.
The OP stated that he doesn't have a problem with the cold and will use insulators such as more blankets clothing etc. I'm not sure how the addition of a wife and child suddenly changes it into a survival situation. If the OP can survive using blankets, so can't his wife and child. I know this is hard to believe, but even infants can survive in cold weather. People need to realize that there is a difference between comfort and survival. It sounds like the OP is unlikely to be confronted with a survival situation, but simply wants the comfort level. This is the difference between wants and needs.
I've lived in a condo (as a renter) I will never do it again. IMO the best bet for extended comfort would be the post about using sealed batteries and an inverter to power the furnace. If it were a house I would say to just get a generator.
Someone stated earlier that most furnaces require 220V. That is not true. I would be very surprised to find a 220V furnace in the vast majority of residential homes.
The OP stated that he doesn't have a problem with the cold and will use insulators such as more blankets clothing etc. I'm not sure how the addition of a wife and child suddenly changes it into a survival situation. If the OP can survive using blankets, so can't his wife and child. I know this is hard to believe, but even infants can survive in cold weather. People need to realize that there is a difference between comfort and survival. It sounds like the OP is unlikely to be confronted with a survival situation, but simply wants the comfort level. This is the difference between wants and needs.
I've lived in a condo (as a renter) I will never do it again. IMO the best bet for extended comfort would be the post about using sealed batteries and an inverter to power the furnace. If it were a house I would say to just get a generator.
Can you give an example of a product I can by today that could be powered by a 5 lb. or 20 lb. LP tank that's save for indoor use?
I got a Mr. Buddy propane heater that was marketed as "indoor safe" but then after reading the manual, it said that by "indoors" they meant a tent or bob house. Or a garage, with an open bay.
Just trying to get a free education, not pushing back. I ended up returning my Mr. Buddy propane heater and opted for an electric space heater (which I can power with a generator that's outside).
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Right. You can have your heat set to 58* or even 56* during the winter months and be fine. You'll be miserable and uncomfortable, but you'll make it. Heck, you can probably get down the lower 50* range without worrying about plumbing issues.
SalemCat
Banned
If you use a HUMIDIFIER you'll be very comfortable at 70 degrees or less. They make a huge difference.
And your skin won't crack, nor will there be static electric sparks.
That's another nice thing about Forced Hot Air. As the ductwork is aleady in place, adding a Built-In Humidifier or Central Air is easy.
And your skin won't crack, nor will there be static electric sparks.
That's another nice thing about Forced Hot Air. As the ductwork is aleady in place, adding a Built-In Humidifier or Central Air is easy.
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I wish I could find a decent, affordable, STEAM wood boiler. Heck, I am almost thinking coal would be good, like in the olden days. I'd just replace my oil tank with a coal bin.
Again, the steam humidifies on its own. It also "circulates" without any blowers or pumps. Heck, I bet I could run a coal boiler to heat my house without any electricity at all.
Might need to go back in time to around 1930 or so.
falcon123
NES Member
Mushroom heaters do not need electricity. That's why we use them.
falcon123
NES Member
I don't live in MA, so it's perfectly legal for me to buy and use a kero heater. My point was that just because Mass says something is illegal doesn't make it dangerous. Kerosene heaters are used all over Japan for primary heat, and I'm not hearing of mass casualties due to CO poisoning or fires. And they are legal in 48 of our 57 states
As far as the OP using it in his condo, he's a big boy and can understand and deal with his state's laws, I'm sure.
That there tells you how stupid this nanny state is. Hell, we had towns that wouldn't allow you to pump your own gas for a while too. Marlboro was one of them. Now that was truly stupid.
SalemCat
Banned
If you ever do a search on "Automatic Fireman", "Robot Fireman", or such, you'll discover that in the early 20th Century many houses had very elaborate, mechanical devices in their basements. There were Mechanical Thermostats, and Handlers that dropped chunks of Coal into the Furnace as needed. There were bimetal strips, feeding chutes, etc, and they worked well. Or so I've read. I'm old but not OLD.
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I think Stoneham still forbids it. Could be wrong.
SalemCat
Banned
How large of a Propane Tank do they need ? 20lb is too small, or so I've heard.
Mines in the basement and runs through my baseboard heat. It does self circulate. We have bypass valves to do just that when the power is out.
You can always look into a Honda Freewatt system. Generates electricty when the heat is running, so you can sell the electricty back to the grid. Can use it as a generator when the grid is down. You have to do the math, but with the installation rebates and money from selling back to the grid, it could be very cost effective.
http://www.freewatt.com/freewatt_plus.pdf
PaulR
NES Member
Haven't read the last few pages of this thread but I was in Lowes yesterday dick-docking around the propane area and I saw an "indoor safe" propane heater. Worth looking into I'd say.
Here you go:
Shop Mr. Heater 18000 BTU Portable Propane Heater at Lowes.com=
Here you go:
Shop Mr. Heater 18000 BTU Portable Propane Heater at Lowes.com=
Those are great. I have one. It does, for the record shutoff, by itself when inadequately ventilated before you pass out or feel light headed and will not allow you to re-light until you do ventilate.
They also have adapters to use normal cylinders so you don't have to stock a million 1lb'ers.
I think one of the lessons learned after multiple major natural disasters is that availability of things like gasoline, kerosene, propane, even natural gas under the right circumstances is limited. For a short duration even you'll be more comfortable than your neighbors. After a while, though, you'll all be in the same boat.
The only thing that's going to keep you heated long run in an extended situation is wood. Only because you can procure wood yourself. I can generate a lot of cut wood from a few gallons of gas, which generates to a lot more heat than that gas would generate running any sort of heater or generator. It doesn't take a whole lot of gas to cut a whole winter's supply of wood, particularly if you skip the log splitter and split by hand.
The only thing that's going to keep you heated long run in an extended situation is wood. Only because you can procure wood yourself. I can generate a lot of cut wood from a few gallons of gas, which generates to a lot more heat than that gas would generate running any sort of heater or generator. It doesn't take a whole lot of gas to cut a whole winter's supply of wood, particularly if you skip the log splitter and split by hand.
