What pistol to start out in IDPA?

Ya know...I just can't warm up to a Glock. It's the cant of the grip - it just isn't comfortable in my hand, and I've shot a few of them. So, I'm amoung the few who are glockless. :D
 
Someday we should hold a try-out day where everyone brings some pistols
and you can check out the one you've been eyeing for the last year. Perhaps
you should hit one of the rental ranges (AFS, s&w) and spend a small
investment in finding the right pistol for you. Otherwise, you're just going
to end up selling it and trying again....

F
 
firtree said:
Someday we should hold a try-out day where everyone brings some pistols
and you can check out the one you've been eyeing for the last year. Perhaps
you should hit one of the rental ranges (AFS, s&w) and spend a small
investment in finding the right pistol for you. Otherwise, you're just going
to end up selling it and trying again....

F
Click to expand...

Or, You could just wait until we have the "real" NES get-together in the spring <hint> and everyone will bring what they have, and the rules will be that every gun is for everyone to try!
 
Lynne said:
Ya know...I just can't warm up to a Glock. It's the cant of the grip - it just isn't comfortable in my hand, and I've shot a few of them. So, I'm amoung the few who are glockless. :D
Click to expand...

I'll be staying Glockless as well. The only reason I'd be purchasing one is if that's what my wife found comfortable, but we looked at one on Sunday & she didn't really care for it.
 
Adam_MA said:
I don't have a Glock... I have thought about getting one, however I have shot them in the past, and for some reason they just don't feel good in my hands. I have to make an effort to get them to aim correctly too...

Someone gave me some advice when I was about to get my first pistol.. They told me to take the gun in my hand, close my eyes, bring the gun up to eye level and open my eyes. They said the gun that comes closest to a good sight picture when doing that, is considered a gun that points naturally for you. The Glock was WAY off...

Don't know how true that tidbit is, but I tried shooting a Glock after I got my Walther (one which pointed naturally for me) and I was a MUCH worse shot on the Glock than the Walther...

But, with that kind of record, they must be doing something right.

Adam
Click to expand...

Adam - That is very true to a point. Yes, I've always advocated using what's most comfortable in your hand. However, most folks I've encountered that complain about the cant of the Glock (or any other firearm) and the natural point of aim, doesn't have any idea on how to properly hold a firearm to begin with. I rountinely see 'veteran' shooters who have their weak-hand thumb wrapped around the backside of the slide waiting to have a huge gash torn from their flesh. This is just one example.

Most modern sidearms have very little difference in the grip-to-barrel angle. The biggest problem comes in when folks just don't know how to properly hold a handgun. I challenge everyone who doubts my statement to consult an instructor whose name is more notable than mine, and ask them if they concur. I see NRA instructors (who have more 'paper' credentials than I) teach bad habits to their students. Most have never used the tool they teach in real life or as a vocation, I have.

I would bet that if you consulted Jim Conway - if he still frequents this board- and those he brings in as instructors, and folks like Cain, Rogers, Crews, and others would tell you the same thing (I know the real-life instructors who taught me would). In the basics it's called 'proper grip'.

Most handgunners think it's about lining up the sights and the gun should do that automatically. Wrong, wrong, wrong. And, not only that, but it's WRONG! Most handgunners limp-wrist or have their wrist cocked in a bad position and have never been taught by their instructors about a natural point of aim and bone alignment. Because, most instructors have never heard about it and can't pass that info on to their students.

The point of this lesson is, don't give a firearm a bad review because it doesn't 'line up' properly for you. Evaluate the firearm on its performance, simplicity, and realibilty. Then, ask yourself if you really know how to operate the tool and decide if maybe you are the one who needs a few modifications instead of the gun.

Adam, this is not directed to you personaly, but to everyone as a whole. This topic would be better served in the Training forum that Jim Conway and I tried to proliferate but saw little participation. Most individuals don't want to admit that their shooting woes are their own defiencentcies and, instead, blame it on a certain firearm design.
 
Well Tony luv - I am an instructor, and I do teach my students how to hold a firearm properly. I also know how to hold a firearm properly, and my targets are my proof. I can shoot a Glock, and shoot one just fine thankyouverymuch, however, I still don't like the way it feels in my hand.

FWIW sweetie. :D
 
Lynne said:
Well Tony luv - I am an instructor, and I do teach my students how to hold a firearm properly. I also know how to hold a firearm properly, and my targets are my proof. I can shoot a Glock, and shoot one just fine thankyouverymuch, however, I still don't like the way it feels in my hand.

FWIW sweetie. :D
Click to expand...

Well, Lynne luv - I know you are an instructor and nothing I stated was ever implied or directed towards you. I have never witnessed any of YOUR classes let alone your shooting prowess and as such cannot comment on them. Sorry you took offense and felt like you had to defend yourself.

And, no offense intended, but there is a big difference between NRA instructors and instructors who teach the life and death realities. That is NOT a dig. I'm working on getting my NRA instructor paperwork and NRA instructors are a VERY needed commodity and do a great service.

Regardless, none of that negates the validity of my previous post. As I said, everyone is encouraged to consult notable practical defensive firearms instructors and either validate, negate, or debate the facts I've provided.

FWIW, sweetie. :)
 
TonyD said:
Sorry you took offense and felt like you had to defend yourself.

And, no offense intended, but there is a big difference between NRA instructors and instructors who teach the life and death realities.
Click to expand...

Didn't take offense hun, and not defending - just wanted to clarify that I'm more than just a gorgeous blonde. [lol]

I also teach more than just the basic pistol course dearheart. [wink]
 
Tony,

You do make a good point. I've taken different courses over the years and the most practical and informative has been taught by a local LEO who does a lot of the training for local and State LEOs in this area. He's taken his past experience; military, police and other training courses and consolidated them to his courses. He does emphasize NPA, proper grip and trigger control. When looking at his basic course compared to others I've seen or take there is no comparison. His more advanced courses are excellent as well, but I don't want to get this anymore more sidetracked. :)

CD

BTW I don't dislike the Glocks, I just prefer a heavier trigger pull on the first round when I carry without a safety. :)
 
Lynne said:
Didn't take offense hun, and not defending - just wanted to clarify that I'm more than just a gorgeous blonde. [lol]

I also teach more than just the basic pistol course dearheart. [wink]
Click to expand...

Wow! A gougeous blonde & pistol instructor! And to think I missed the NES gathering. [wink]

CD
 
Adam_MA said:
Someone gave me some advice when I was about to get my first pistol.. They told me to take the gun in my hand, close my eyes, bring the gun up to eye level and open my eyes. They said the gun that comes closest to a good sight picture when doing that, is considered a gun that points naturally for you.
Click to expand...

Strangely enough, the last rifle I picked up that felt that comfortable in my hands was Lynne's 1861 Springfield carbine... [roll] [lol]
 
cdkayak said:
Tony,

You do make a good point. I've taken different courses over the years and the most practical and informative has been taught by a local LEO who does a lot of the training for local and State LEOs in this area. He's taken his past experience; military, police and other training courses and consolidated them to his courses. He does emphasize NPA, proper grip and trigger control. When looking at his basic course compared to others I've seen or take there is no comparison. His more advanced courses are excellent as well, but I don't want to get this anymore more sidetracked. :)

CD

BTW I don't dislike the Glocks, I just prefer a heavier trigger pull on the first round when I carry without a safety. :)
Click to expand...

CD - I don't want to sidetrack this anymore either. It would be a good discussion in the training forum that few participate in. However, you're correct, individuals who have actually lived by the tool of the trade, and have bet their life on more than one occassion on their equipment and training have a little more to offer.

However, there are many different levels in which the 'regular' citizen needs training and education. Like I said, the training basic NRA instructors provide is invaluable to folks that have never used a firearm before. Problem is, most of those folks will never go beyond that initial training and truly learn the basics of marksmanship, let alone the real employment of a firearm in a real life situation.

Most think that if they have enough G2 to handle a firearm safe enough as to not kill someone unintentionally, and be able to go to the range and put most of the rounds in a paper plate at 3 yards, they're good to go.
 
Adam_MA said:
firtree said:
Someday we should hold a try-out day where everyone brings some pistols
and you can check out the one you've been eyeing for the last year. Perhaps
you should hit one of the rental ranges (AFS, s&w) and spend a small
investment in finding the right pistol for you. Otherwise, you're just going
to end up selling it and trying again....

F
Click to expand...

Or, You could just wait until we have the "real" NES get-together in the spring <hint> and everyone will bring what they have, and the rules will be that every gun is for everyone to try!
Click to expand...

Or we could do both :D :D
 
number9 said:
In terms of Glocks, I guess I'm trying to decide between the 17 (9mm) or the 21 (.45ACP); though I could even choose a 34 (9mm) or 35 (.40) as they're the competition models. Can't go for a "C for Compensated" in IDPA, though! So... who's got opinions? Thoughts, ramblings, whatever; all is welcome!
Click to expand...

If they feel right for you, Glocks are the way to go in IDPA SSP and USPSA Production since they have that consistent trigger pull shot to shot. That is such an advantage (in competition settings) over the DA/SA of the other guns in those divisions. They can also be tuned to approach the quality of a 1911 trigger. Other stuff: they are relatively cheap, easy to work on, reliable, and have tons of aftermarket parts support.

As for which caliber to get, if you reload go with .40SW. A soft shooting .40 feels like a .22. 9mm is soft too but .40 can also be loaded hotter and compete in other divisions. If you don't reload, 9mm is a no brainer. It is so cheap and reliable.

17 or 34? Go with whatever feels good. A 3.5# connector and polished parts will give a nice trigger in either. Heinie or Dawson sights. Lots of practice.

The only other gun in that category I have really liked is a tuned CZ75. They can be finicky, but I like their weight, smooth action, and the feel when reload.
 
Wait... I haven't shot one but it occured to me that the Para LDA has most of advantages that the Glock does. Maybe not reliablity. However, it would be more than $600.
 
GTOShootr said:
Wait... I haven't shot one but it occured to me that the Para LDA has most of advantages that the Glock does. Maybe not reliablity. However, it would be more than $600.
Click to expand...

My para has been flawless so far. More expensive yes, but it just feels right!

Adam
 
Adam_MA said:
GTOShootr said:
Wait... I haven't shot one but it occured to me that the Para LDA has most of advantages that the Glock does. Maybe not reliablity. However, it would be more than $600.
Click to expand...

My para has been flawless so far. More expensive yes, but it just feels right!

Adam
Click to expand...

They are nice guns. I've only seen doublestack mag problems with Paras. I had a P16 that was great STI Para mags but friends had trouble getting factory mags (specifically the feed lips) to be 100% reliable for extended periods of time.
 
What do y'all think about SIGs? I've fired both Glocks and SIGs at The Firing Line in Manchester, and the SIG felt much more comfortable in my hand (my results were about equally bad with either gun :)).
 
Competitively speaking, Sig triggers are heavier and have a lot of travel, which make shooting fast and accurate harder to do and learn.

For $399 at 4S, the money you save when buying a Glock will buy you enough ammo to get used to it. I hated mine until I changed the sights and shot it until I was standing in a pile of brass.
 
Good point about practicing... However if you find a gun that "just feels right" in your hand, you will be more happy with it in the long run.

So, if the difference in $ between a Glock and a Sig isn't a deciding factor go with what feels better.

A VERY wise man and great instructor/shooter once told me something about being able to teach someone how to shoot a gun with proficiency only using LOTS of dry firing, and 50 rounds of ammo. Maybe that man (Jim Conway) will chime in and refresh my memory! :D

Adam
 
I"m shooting a Glock 17, 9mm when doing IDPA drills. I find the 9mm easier to control. I started out with a
1911 45 cal., too much to handle when getting back on target for second shot. I also use a S&W 40 cal., it is fine
but not as smooth as the Glock, and the 40 cal. is a bit more to control when getting back on target. I have done trigger work on both the Glock and the S&W to make them both lighter to the touch. My opinion only!


number9 said:
I'm looking to take up IDPA next month, and am chasing some recommendations for a pistol. I've got a little (not much) pistol experience with .22s, but that's about it. In other words, I have next to no idea where to start!

I've held a Glock 17 but never fired one, and I seem to be one of those people for whom a Glock "fits"; I guess that comes from having big hands (no jokes, you m*******s). I would actually like to have something capable of doubling for home defence; but full-sized -- this isn't to carry. I don't have a preference for calibre, and I'm a reasonably strong guy so I don't think recoil will bother me too much.

In terms of Glocks, I guess I'm trying to decide between the 17 (9mm) or the 21 (.45ACP); though I could even choose a 34 (9mm) or 35 (.40) as they're the competition models. Can't go for a "C for Compensated" in IDPA, though!

So... who's got opinions? Thoughts, ramblings, whatever; all is welcome!
Click to expand...
 
I've shot a number of IDPA's, my go to gun is a G17. I shot the G19 for a while, but doing fast mag changes would lead to pinching my hand (between the mag and frame). Plus to me its a game. So big gun, small caliber (9mm) and OWB holster.

I have a Walther P99 and the trigger is not IDPA friendly IMHO.

I may pick up a HK VP9 to swap with the Glock.
 

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