What pistol to start out in IDPA?

[number9]

I'm looking to take up IDPA next month, and am chasing some recommendations for a pistol. I've got a little (not much) pistol experience with .22s, but that's about it. In other words, I have next to no idea where to start!

I've held a Glock 17 but never fired one, and I seem to be one of those people for whom a Glock "fits"; I guess that comes from having big hands (no jokes, you ma**h***s). I would actually like to have something capable of doubling for home defence; but full-sized -- this isn't to carry. I don't have a preference for calibre, and I'm a reasonably strong guy so I don't think recoil will bother me too much.

In terms of Glocks, I guess I'm trying to decide between the 17 (9mm) or the 21 (.45ACP); though I could even choose a 34 (9mm) or 35 (.40) as they're the competition models. Can't go for a "C for Compensated" in IDPA, though!

So... who's got opinions? Thoughts, ramblings, whatever; all is welcome!

 

[TonyD]

Since I use IDPA as a training adjunct, I use what I carry, Glock 19.

 

[number9]

Since I use IDPA as a training adjunct, I use what I carry, Glock 19.

How do you find it goes in IDPA? Anything you particularly like, anything you particularly don't like?

I left off one of the most important items on my above post -- budget. I'd like to spend under $500 if I can, otherwise under $600. I've seen new Glock 17s and 21s for under that price, hell you can get 2nd gen factory-refurbished 17s for just over $400...

 

[Nickle]

Almost any decent "carry gun" should work. That would mean almost any Glock or 1911A1. And you should be able to find one within your budget.

That's what those who participate tell me works.

PM Cross-X or dwarven1 for more info.

 

[number9]

Almost any decent "carry gun" should work. That would mean almost any Glock or 1911A1. And you should be able to find one within your budget.

That's what those who participate tell me works.

PM Cross-X or dwarven1 for more info.

Wouldn't the lowest-spec 1911 I could get away with, be along the lines of a Mil-Spec? Factory flared ejection port, all that stuff?

One thing I'm wondering, when choosing between a 9mm and .45, is ammo cost. Aren't .45 rounds almost double what 9mm rounds cost?

 

[Nickle]

Wouldn't the lowest-spec 1911 I could get away with, be along the lines of a Mil-Spec? Factory flared ejection port, all that stuff?

One thing I'm wondering, when choosing between a 9mm and .45, is ammo cost. Aren't .45 rounds almost double what 9mm rounds cost?

On the 1911A1, MIL-SPEC would bed the low end ones. You're from Maine, why not build your own?

THe ammo is close in price, but 45 bullets are more expensive than 9mm (almost double), so the ammo costs more. If you reload and use your own cast bullets, cost is so close to the same it's not worth worrying about.

If I were to compete in IDPA, I'd think a 9mm would be better anyways. Less recoil an d Glocks are simple to use.

 

[number9]

On the 1911A1, MIL-SPEC would bed the low end ones. You're from Maine, why not build your own?

THe ammo is close in price, but 45 bullets are more expensive than 9mm (almost double), so the ammo costs more. If you reload and use your own cast bullets, cost is so close to the same it's not worth worrying about.

If I were to compete in IDPA, I'd think a 9mm would be better anyways. Less recoil an d Glocks are simple to use.

Sorry, I'm a little confused you mean a Mil-Spec would be a low-end 1911, or would beat the other low-end 1911s? Initially I don't think I'd be comfortable building my own, I'd rather run something factory.

I guess I'd start out using factory ammo, as I think it'd be quite some time before I toyed with the idea of reloads... so if I can shoot two 9mm rounds for the same price as a .45ACP round, then that's worth thinking about.

I think you're right, less recoil would be beneficial for IDPA (at least when I'm starting out). I can always upgrade later, I don't want to bite off more than I can chew when I'm starting out.

 

[Nickle]

The low end ones ARE usually MIL-SPEC.

THe point on building one is that you can have a simple but accurate one for under $500. And you get the bragging rights of having built it yourself. Almost nothing is more fullfilling than competing with your own handywork, and doing well.

 

[number9]

The low end ones ARE usually MIL-SPEC.

THe point on building one is that you can have a simple but accurate one for under $500. And you get the bragging rights of having built it yourself. Almost nothing is more fullfilling than competing with your own handywork, and doing well.

Ah, okay. I'm sure there's a zillion 1911 forums around, maybe I should look for some DIY building info, I didn't realise you could get something effective so cheap! There are some 1911 threads on the Building forums here, too... am reading them now

 

[Nickle]

The BIY info here should also have the proper Tech Manuals.

 

[Adam_MA]

Me personally.... Next year I hope to start playing around with IDPA shooting. I haven't done any competitive shooting yet, and based on the pictures, safety, and fun that the folks here seem to have when they do it, I think it would be just the thing for me.

As for the gun I will use... Probably my Walther P99 in .40S&W. Why, well for the same reason Tony uses his Glock. It's my primary carry weapon.

As for you.... If a Glock fits your hand, and points naturally for you, by all means that should be the gun you pick. However I would recommend on trying to find a range where you could rent a couple of different guns and try them all out. See what one you can shoot the best, and feels the best in your hands.

Ammo cost is also something important. Unless you reload shooting can get to be an expensive sport/hobby/lifestyle.
Around here, usually the cheapest handgun ammo comes from Walmart. There you can get the most popular handgun rounds by Winchester, in 100 round value packs.
Prices are approximate.
9mm - $13/100 rounds
40S&W - $17/100 rounds
45ACP - $20/100 rounds

As you can see the 9mm is by far the lowest costing round. Now you will be living in Maine, so you would be able to order bulk ammo by mail, and save even more money. Us poor saps stuck here in the Communist of Massachusetts, don't have that luxury.

Also remember, the more you can shoot, the better you will be. So there again leads to the cost of ammo discussion once again.

Hope this helps a little.

Adam

 

[TonyD]

Since I use IDPA as a training adjunct, I use what I carry, Glock 19.

How do you find it goes in IDPA? Anything you particularly like, anything you particularly don't like?

As far as the Glock? I like it a lot. Simple, effective and easy to shoot. The only thing I may pick up is an extended mag release. Of course, I've saying that for about 10 years and I still haven't done it.

BTW - The 1911 competes in a different class. I shoot in Stock Service Pistol.

 

[number9]

The BIY info here should also have the proper Tech Manuals.

Yep, looking at some PDFs now, thanks

As far as the Glock? I like it a lot. Simple, effective and easy to shoot. The only thing I may pick up is an extended mag release. Of course, I've saying that for about 10 years and I still haven't done it.

BTW - The 1911 competes in a different class. I shoot in Stock Service Pistol.

Yep, stock service pistol is what I'd like to start off in. Why the extended mag release -- do you sometimes have trouble fingering the standard one; do the grips make it awkward?

As for you.... If a Glock fits your hand, and points naturally for you, by all means that should be the gun you pick. However I would recommend on trying to find a range where you could rent a couple of different guns and try them all out. See what one you can shoot the best, and feels the best in your hands.

Ammo cost is also something important. Unless you reload shooting can get to be an expensive sport/hobby/lifestyle.
Around here, usually the cheapest handgun ammo comes from Walmart. There you can get the most popular handgun rounds by Winchester, in 100 round value packs.
Prices are approximate.
9mm - $13/100 rounds
40S&W - $17/100 rounds
45ACP - $20/100 rounds

As you can see the 9mm is by far the lowest costing round. Now you will be living in Maine, so you would be able to order bulk ammo by mail, and save even more money. Us poor saps stuck here in the Communist of Massachusetts, don't have that luxury.

Also remember, the more you can shoot, the better you will be. So there again leads to the cost of ammo discussion once again.

Hope this helps a little.

Adam

Yep, I'll definitely try to find a range where I can go and do some experimenting before I buy, hopefully it won't be too hard to find a range like that in ME. I realise the value that can be had in reloading brass, but initially I'll just stick to factory ammo.

Those are pretty big differences in ammo pricing! I'm interested to see how cheap ammo is to buy in bulk by mail-order. I knew that MA had awful laws but I didn't realise they even restricted ammo sales... thanks for your input!

 

[TonyD]

Just to be able to manipulate the release easier. I have to adjust my grip to get it pushed in. Not much, but a little. It would also make it easier to use with the weak hand.

 

[dwarven1]

I guess I'd start out using factory ammo, as I think it'd be quite some time before I toyed with the idea of reloads... so if I can shoot two 9mm rounds for the same price as a .45ACP round, then that's worth thinking about.

I think you're right, less recoil would be beneficial for IDPA (at least when I'm starting out). I can always upgrade later, I don't want to bite off more than I can chew when I'm starting out.

FWIW, you'll pay about double for .45ACP ammo. If price is a concern, I'd go with 9mm. Also, the 9mm will have a lower recoil, so you may find it easier to shoot.

Personally, I shoot a .45 and buy in bulk (bought a case of Blazer's last time they were on sale). Why? the gun fits my hand, the recoil doesn't bother me, and I just plain like it. But that's just me.

If the Glock feels like it fits you, buy it. Try one out, but if you like that much, go for it. This may sound a trifle mystical, but you want to become one with the gun... and if it feels right in your hand, that goes a long way.

(when you can afford it, buy the other caliber, too. You can't have too many guns...)

Ross

 

[firtree]

Remember that this is IDPA. Shoot whatever you would like to carry (or do carry). You can be competetive with almost any gun in SSP (stock service pistol) if you are comfortable with it. I have had my butt kicked by people
with S&Ws, Glocks, Sigs, 1911s...Whatever floats your boat should work fine.

F

 

[number9]

FWIW, you'll pay about double for .45ACP ammo. If price is a concern, I'd go with 9mm. Also, the 9mm will have a lower recoil, so you may find it easier to shoot.

Personally, I shoot a .45 and buy in bulk (bought a case of Blazer's last time they were on sale). Why? the gun fits my hand, the recoil doesn't bother me, and I just plain like it. But that's just me.

If the Glock feels like it fits you, buy it. Try one out, but if you like that much, go for it. This may sound a trifle mystical, but you want to become one with the gun... and if it feels right in your hand, that goes a long way.

(when you can afford it, buy the other caliber, too. You can't have too many guns...)

Ross

How much did the case of .45s cost you? Adam_MA, do you have an idea how much a case (or however you buy in bulk) of 9mm costs?

It's good advice that you've given, I think (so long as I like the feel of shooting it) that I'll start out with a 9mm and then see how I go from there. I'd like to own a fairly original-style 1911 for general range fun at some stage, but I don't imagine competing with it (other than for curiosity's sake).

Remember that this is IDPA. Shoot whatever you would like to carry (or do carry). You can be competetive with almost any gun in SSP (stock service pistol) if you are comfortable with it. I have had my butt kicked by people
with S&Ws, Glocks, Sigs, 1911s...Whatever floats your boat should work fine.

F

You're right, and that's one of the biggest things I like about IDPA -- that it bears a close resemblance to what people really carry. Granted, there's the "stock" classes in IPSC, but that doesn't appeal to me as much.

 

[dwarven1]

[quote="number9How much did the case of .45s cost you? [/quote]

I think that Four Seasons had it on sale for around $157 or so last November, IIRC. (Haven't been doing much shooting this year since I injured my foot - difficult to do IDPA when you're not supposed to be standing!)

Since you're in Maine, you can mail order it for less, I'd imagine.

Ross

 

[number9]

I think that Four Seasons had it on sale for around $157 or so last November, IIRC. (Haven't been doing much shooting this year since I injured my foot - difficult to do IDPA when you're not supposed to be standing!)

Since you're in Maine, you can mail order it for less, I'd imagine.

Ross

Okay - thanks 8)

 

[cdkayak]

The last case of 9mm I picked up cost about $150 from one source. That was in April for 1000 rounds Lake City NATO headstamped. I think the price has gone up a bit since then. I also picked up about 500 rounds from another for about $75 + shipping, that was Winchester NATO. I'll email you the places I get ammo from. (although they are probably both on the MA no sales list already, we're OK in Maine.)

I haven't picked up any .45 by the case yet. A friend of mine is trying to put together a group purchase for a pallet of Speer Lawman FMJ so I'll let you know how that is working out. I've got to either buy a box from him or pick one up to make sure my .45 eats it.

CD

 

[number9]

The last case of 9mm I picked up cost about $150 from one source. That was in April for 1000 rounds Lake City NATO headstamped. I think the price has gone up a bit since then. I also picked up about 500 rounds from another for about $75 + shipping, that was Winchester NATO. I'll email you the places I get ammo from. (although they are probably both on the MA no sales list already, we're OK in Maine.)

I haven't picked up any .45 by the case yet. A friend of mine is trying to put together a group purchase for a pallet of Speer Lawman FMJ so I'll let you know how that is working out. I've got to either buy a box from him or pick one up to make sure my .45 eats it.

CD

That would be great if you can do that, thanks CD! My geography is pretty bad (has been a year since I was there), is Falmouth or Scarborough closer to Windham?

Reason I ask is that I would like to do just some general (indoor, hopefully) range shooting over the winter; and I'm not sure if either will be open. I think you mentioned Falmouth is renovating? And you were helping...

$150 sounds great for 1000 rounds, even if it's gone up (a bit) then it still sounds like good value for money. I'd rather get a case than go back and forth with boxes, though I suppose if you buy a case and it's bad stuff or you don't like it, you're hosed. What pistol are you using? I forgot what you said you had... has been a long week at work :?

 

[cdkayak]

Scarborough is renovating the indoor range & I'm just waiting for the call to help them out. It's a long story and frustrating several people, hopefully it will get moving again soon.

Falmouth is most likely closer to where you'll be, but neither should be that far. I'm pretty much right between them, a little closer to Scarborough though. Both have a covered firing line on the pistol range for 25 yards, but since we need to keep the targets back at the berms you're in the elements if you're shooting at closer ranges.

CD

 

[number9]

Scarborough is renovating the indoor range & I'm just waiting for the call to help them out. It's a long story and frustrating several people, hopefully it will get moving again soon.

Falmouth is most likely closer to where you'll be, but neither should be that far. I'm pretty much right between them, a little closer to Scarborough though. Both have a covered firing line on the pistol range for 25 yards, but since we need to keep the targets back at the berms you're in the elements if you're shooting at closer ranges.

CD

Okay, I guess I should drop the guys at Falmouth a line to see what their plans are for winter, then. It would be nice to be able to get some regular range time before the IDPA season starts up! To offset some (but not remove all) of the embarrassment I'll feel when starting out. Being in the elements in December/January/February doesn't sound like my idea of fun, though [lol]

 

[cdkayak]

Forgot to mention, I'm using a Walther P99 9mm since that's my primary handgun. I picked up a HK USPc 9mm earlier this year which I'll probably rotate in for the SSP class. I also plan on using my 1911 on occasion, but I still need some more practice with that since I got rid of the Hogue grips that were on it when I bought it.

CD

 

[number9]

Forgot to mention, I'm using a Walther P99 9mm since that's my primary handgun. I picked up a HK USPc 9mm earlier this year which I'll probably rotate in for the SSP class. I also plan on using my 1911 on occasion, but I still need some more practice with that since I got rid of the Hogue grips that were on it when I bought it.

CD

That sounds great! I'd love to check out a HK, all that's putting me off buying one is the fact I could get about 2.25 Glocks for the price or close to, anyway.

I'm particularly interested to try an original 1911, though as I said I don't think I'd ever compete with one. The Springfield Mil-Specs don't look like bad value, though!

 

[USMA-82]

Get the GLOCK! Either the 17 or the 19 will work out fine for IDPA. In addition to all of the other comments above, I'll add this:

For every IDPA match or practice match I've attended, there has been at least one 1911-style pistol that "went bad" - failure to feed, failure to eject, failure to do just about anything.

But the Glocks take a licking, and keep on ticking. In my brief IDPA career of 3+ years, including numerous state and regional matches, I've yet to see a Glock malfunction. Coincidence? Maybe....

But get the Glock first - and let it be your base measurement that you compare all future pistols to. You'll soon understand.

 

[cdkayak]

Number9,

Taken from an IDPA publication.

Pistol used in the Championship:

Beretta 9
Browning 2
Caspian 8
Colt 12
Cusanelli 1
CZ 4
Detonics 1
EAA 1
Glock 91
HK 3
Isrrael 1
Italia 1
Ithaca 1
Kahr 1
Kimber 27
LesBear 2
Nowlin 1
Para Ordnance 4
SW 37
SW Perf Cent 6
Sig 3
SA 21
STI 10
SVI 10
Tanfolio 2
Wilson 16

From those at least 79 were 1911s.

CD

 

[TonyD]

Number9,

Taken from an IDPA publication.

Pistol used in the Championship:

Beretta 9
Browning 2
Caspian 8
Colt 12
Cusanelli 1
CZ 4
Detonics 1
EAA 1
Glock 91
HK 3
Isrrael 1
Italia 1
Ithaca 1
Kahr 1
Kimber 27
LesBear 2
Nowlin 1
Para Ordnance 4
SW 37
SW Perf Cent 6
Sig 3
SA 21
STI 10
SVI 10
Tanfolio 2
Wilson 16

From those at least 79 were 1911s.

CD

And, 91 were Glocks.

My Glock sees much more use than my HK.

 

[Adam_MA]

I don't have a Glock... I have thought about getting one, however I have shot them in the past, and for some reason they just don't feel good in my hands. I have to make an effort to get them to aim correctly too...

Someone gave me some advice when I was about to get my first pistol.. They told me to take the gun in my hand, close my eyes, bring the gun up to eye level and open my eyes. They said the gun that comes closest to a good sight picture when doing that, is considered a gun that points naturally for you. The Glock was WAY off...

Don't know how true that tidbit is, but I tried shooting a Glock after I got my Walther (one which pointed naturally for me) and I was a MUCH worse shot on the Glock than the Walther...

But, with that kind of record, they must be doing something right.

Adam

 

[cdkayak]

I find my Walther and HK much more comfortable than the Glocks. But I do have to say, when I did get to try one at the range a few months back it was dead on & shot a great group. I don't plan on switching anytime soon, but it was a nice pistol to shoot. I still like the DA/SA order of arms on the other two.